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Sox Sign Cishek; 1 yr, $5.25 mil + option (6.75, 750k buyout)

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38 minutes ago, tray said:

Cali"  Do you think Cheslor Cuthbert is an option to hold down second base for a few weeks if the Sox decide to hold back Madrigal ? 

He's much better at third or 1B (and he's never been considered a good defender at any position).   Leury is the logical choice, or Mendick.

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41 minutes ago, tray said:

Cali"  Do you think Cheslor Cuthbert is an option to hold down second base for a few weeks if the Sox decide to hold back Madrigal ? 

No Cuthbert is  a depth piece . A lot of bad would have to happen between Leury and Mendick for that to happen. There is still a possibility they look for someone to replace Mendick just in case Madrigal takes longer than a few weeks . If it takes a month or longer the way the Sox see it now playing out. You could see a Yolmer signing or someone like Holt or Gennett but they just might value Yolmer's defense more. I think it's 50/50 they add another infielder. There's always the possibilty Madrigal come up and sucks so they may want to prepare for that.

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I’d love Brock Holt but he might be too expensive. Not sure how is overall glove skills are but he can play 3 infield positions plus some outfield. Plus a great mentor for Madrigal imo. 

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Wsox have been making some excellent moves.  However don’t like this one.  Cishek is quite useful under the old rules, getting out right hand hitters.  Under the new rules, he will potentially have to face two LH hitters.  LH hitters TEAR UP right handed side arm hurlers.  There is NO deception facing a Lefthanded batter. No doubt the Sox thought this out, but this may not end well.  Hope I’m wrong. 

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19 minutes ago, Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar said:

Wsox have been making some excellent moves.  However don’t like this one.  Cishek is quite useful under the old rules, getting out right hand hitters.  Under the new rules, he will potentially have to face two LH hitters.  LH hitters TEAR UP right handed side arm hurlers.  There is NO deception facing a Lefthanded batter. No doubt the Sox thought this out, but this may not end well.  Hope I’m wrong. 

Like all the LH batters that have a .229 BAA in Cishek’s career?  (.216 last season)

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1 hour ago, RTC said:

Like all the LH batters that have a .229 BAA in Cishek’s career?  (.216 last season)

I saw this coming. I don't know why I'm still surprised when people who use the internet don't actually do just a tiny bit of research . It's not like you need  a vast amount of knowledge to check what you are claiming . Google Steve Cishek, Baseball Reference,  click on the link provided,scroll down to Splits , pitching , then click on either a year or  career

Yes he does worse against LHH but the stats are good just not as good against RHH. Not really directed at you of course. You pointed out the BAA for 2019 and career.

Also the 3 batter rule is not really a 3 batter rule.

A starting pitcher might go 5 .2 innings . The reliever brought in can either pitch  .1 inning because he is pitching to the end of the half inning and then can be taken out or continue to pitch into the next half inning where he then has to pitch to however many hitters that he did not face in the previous .1 of an inning. So If he came in with 1 out to go , walked a guy then got the final out , he faced 2 hitters and then, if not taken out, would have to face at least one more hitter at the start of his next inning. He could get that hitter out and be done, The next pitcher can get the next 2 hitters out in a row and therefore not face 3 hitters but still be done because he pitched to the end of the half inning if the manager so chooses.

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Even more revealing than the splits, if you examine his "game logs" for last year, you will find that he rarely gave up any runs. There were just a few occasions where he was not effective, but the vast majority of the time, he was lights out. April was his worst month. He made 13 appearances and gave up no runs in 11 of them. However, on 2 occasions, he gave up 3 runs, in each. In total, he made 70 appearances and was unscored upon in all but 13 of them. Aaron Bummer was also scored upon 13 times, in 12 fewer appearances, and he had a terrific season. From my perspective, if a reliever can come in and not give up anything, 82% of the time, I'll take that. In Cishek's 5 previous seasons, his WHIP was right around 1.000. Last year it ballooned up to 1.203. Hopefully, he won't be overused in our pen, as he was the last 2 years.

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6 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

I have been a massive fan of Rodon in the bullpen for 2+ years now.  

If his arm cant bounce back as a starter theres no guarantee it can bounce back as a reliever.

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Is there some specific reason that we should be especially concerned about Rodon's ability to completely recover from Tommy John Surgery? 

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4 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Is there some specific reason that we should be especially concerned about Rodon's ability to completely recover from Tommy John Surgery? 

The fact that it's his second major arm surgery in as many years

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2 minutes ago, mqr said:

The fact that it's his second major arm surgery in as many years

I thought that the other procedure was arthroscopic surgery to "clean up his shoulder," from which he seemed to have completely recovered. Here is a quote, from MLB.com, at the time:

"Significant bursitis was found in the White Sox southpaw's shoulder and a debridement of the area was done. Both the rotator cuff and labrum were viewed as normal, and Rodon is expected to make a full recovery."

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3 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I thought that the other procedure was arthroscopic surgery to "clean up his shoulder," from which he seemed to have completely recovered. Here is a quote, from MLB.com, at the time:

"Significant bursitis was found in the White Sox southpaw's shoulder and a debridement of the area was done. Both the rotator cuff and labrum were viewed as normal, and Rodon is expected to make a full recovery."

I guess my worry is less he won't bounce back than it is he can't hold up.

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7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't know why I'm still surprised when people who use the internet don't actually do just a tiny bit of research . It's not like you need  a vast amount of knowledge to check what you are claiming.

What's even worse is when the media does it.  Reporters will make some comment about handedness when a guy has reverse splits, or they'll make completely inaccurate statements relative to the Sox payroll, or they'll have no clue when a players' contract runs out.  Crap like that.  Do your friggin' job.  There are Sox bloggers that are significantly better than a lot of media types because they actually do their homework.  Hawk also used to make blanket statements like player X "is one of the greatest clutch hitters of all time" and then you go and actually look up his clutch stats and, no, he wan't. 

Edited by RTC

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If his arm cant bounce back as a starter theres no guarantee it can bounce back as a reliever.

No doubt. However, I dont think his arm bouncing back is the issue. It will be his performance during his rehab stint and Lopez and Gonzalez in the MLB that will determine who is in the rotation and who is in the pen.

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

The fact that it's his second major arm surgery in as many years

It's one in the shoulder and one in the elbow. It really doesnt make that big of a difference. He probably had the elbow injury due to he lowered his arm angle because of the bursa issue in the shoulder, either before or after the surgery.

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1 hour ago, mqr said:

I guess my worry is less he won't bounce back than it is he can't hold up.

Typically, the bullpen schedule is harder physically than starting. 

In the pen they warmup, sit down and may or may not pitch. With starting they are on a set schedule and can get the arm ready and get consistent work and rest.

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Typically, the bullpen schedule is harder physically than starting. 

In the pen they warmup, sit down and may or may not pitch. With starting they are on a set schedule and can get the arm ready and get consistent work and rest.

Yup; routine benefits starters hell more than the increased inning work load hurts it. 

Starters arms dont get warm and cold frequently and starters dont need to push through fatigue and discomfort nearly as frequently as a reliever on b2b and 3 in 4 day type cycles. I certainly dont speak for every arm, but this is my understanding based on the pitchers I have played with and feedback from others.

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Won't Ryan Burr be a part of the pen's equation, once he is finished with his rehab, for TJS? The Sox re-signed him, last month.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Won't Ryan Burr be a part of the pen's equation, once he is finished with his rehab, for TJS? The Sox re-signed him, last month.

 

Burdi as well.

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35 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Won't Ryan Burr be a part of the pen's equation, once he is finished with his rehab, for TJS? The Sox re-signed him, last month.

 

He's going to miss at least half the season before he's throwing in games.  So he may factor in late, but certainly not before the ASB.  

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9 hours ago, Lillian said:

Even more revealing than the splits, if you examine his "game logs" for last year, you will find that he rarely gave up any runs. There were just a few occasions where he was not effective, but the vast majority of the time, he was lights out. April was his worst month. He made 13 appearances and gave up no runs in 11 of them. However, on 2 occasions, he gave up 3 runs, in each. In total, he made 70 appearances and was unscored upon in all but 13 of them. Aaron Bummer was also scored upon 13 times, in 12 fewer appearances, and he had a terrific season. From my perspective, if a reliever can come in and not give up anything, 82% of the time, I'll take that. In Cishek's 5 previous seasons, his WHIP was right around 1.000. Last year it ballooned up to 1.203. Hopefully, he won't be overused in our pen, as he was the last 2 years.

I assume that you mean by giving up a run you mean that runs were not charged to him. I say this because another important stat is strand rate for a relief pitcher.

Let's say you come in with the bases loaded and no outs. You can give up a couple of  singles that score all 3 runners. That's not good but the runs are all charged to the guy who put those runners on base . If the reliever gets out of the inning with no further runs , he is not charged with any runs thus preserving his ERA but doing bad in the  runners stranded rate even though in that particular situation giving up 1 run or less is ideal. It's easier said than done.

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34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I assume that you mean by giving up a run you mean that runs were not charged to him. I say this because another important stat is strand rate for a relief pitcher.

Let's say you come in with the bases loaded and no outs. You can give up a couple of  singles that score all 3 runners. That's not good but the runs are all charged to the guy who put those runners on base . If the reliever gets out of the inning with no further runs , he is not charged with any runs thus preserving his ERA but doing bad in the  runners stranded rate even though in that particular situation giving up 1 run or less is ideal. It's easier said than done.

They should include a new stat in the books for any reliever who comes in the game with the bases loaded and no outs and gets out of the inning with no runs scored...they can call it a duque

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I assume that you mean by giving up a run you mean that runs were not charged to him. I say this because another important stat is strand rate for a relief pitcher.

Let's say you come in with the bases loaded and no outs. You can give up a couple of  singles that score all 3 runners. That's not good but the runs are all charged to the guy who put those runners on base . If the reliever gets out of the inning with no further runs , he is not charged with any runs thus preserving his ERA but doing bad in the  runners stranded rate even though in that particular situation giving up 1 run or less is ideal. It's easier said than done.

Yes, of course the percentage of inherited runners, who scored is also very important. Last year, he allowed 33% of the 27 inherited runners to score. In that category, Bummer was better, allowing just 19% of the 36 inherited runners, to score. Cishek was better, in 2018, when he allowed 29% of the 59 inherited runners to score. I think we agree that he was overworked, the last couple of years, by Maddon.

Inherited runners are not much of a concern for closers, as they are usually brought in, to start the last inning. Thanks for suggesting that I cite those stats, as well.

Edited by Lillian

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