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Offseason Moves - Grade em'

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1 hour ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

The fact that Dylan Covey went from being on the 25 man roster and was counted on to contribute last season to no longer being on our 40 man roster speaks volumes about how this offseason has gone.

And if you think about it, if they resign Yolmer, 4 guys who received a significant amount of playing time (McCann, Engel, Yolmer, Sanchez) can potentially make up their bench.

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2 minutes ago, tray said:

Again, please consider this from Collins perspective.  Becoming a maybe part time catcher or 1B or DH may not be what Collins wants at this point in his career.

Frankly if I were Zach Collins, being a part time catcher where I earn $400k, get close to free agency, and learn from a couple veteran catchers would be a pretty good thing.

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21 minutes ago, tray said:

If the Sox do not trade McCann, Collins, should not be on the 26 man roster for a couple of reasons.  Look at it with Collins interests rather than the interests of the White Sox to keep him as a prospect or a seldom used back-up catcher treading on thin ice on a contending team.

Collins agent and the White Sox would better serve  Collins aspirations to become a starting catcher in the majors by seeking a trade with a team where he is not blocked by a catcher like Grandal making 17 Million a year over the next 4 years.  If the Sox trade McCann and rely on Collins to start 40 games, that might not turn (out) as well as the Collins fans here might think it will.  Or they will pine that playing in 40 games in 2020 was a small sample size and therefore, he should be allowed to start half the games or more in 2021 before the Sox give up on him. 

The guy is 25 years old in February and has no shot to start with the White Sox for several years.  Signing Grandal should have made it clear that the Sox have no confidence (in Collins) as a a starting catcher.   Trade the poor guy and let him have a decent shot somewhere else.

"Trading the poor guy and let him have a decent shot somewher else" is a terrible way to run a baseball organization.  

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1 minute ago, tray said:

How is he close to free agency?

He meant closer.  As in, any time he spends on the MLB roster is that much time closer to FA.

All of this is moot anyway.  Collins is going to be in AAA.  He'll get some chances with the Sox in 2020, but they're not going to give McCann away just so they can downgrade the major league team.  Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade.  Therefore, Collins will be in AAA.  

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1 minute ago, tray said:

How is he close to free agency?

He has 55 days of big league service time. 172 days on an active roster constitutes a full year of service time, so he has 0 years towards FA so far but if he's up for just over 1/2 of this season it would count as his first full year.

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Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade.

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Agree, but that wasn't my point.

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1 minute ago, tray said:

Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade.

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Agree, but that wasn't my point.

Your point is from the outlook of Collins' Dad, not the White Sox.

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The White Sox have, from time to time made trades or moves that take a players interests into account at least to some degree, including trading them to a location that they prefer or where they might get a better shot.  Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, tray said:

Collins and McCann are both worth more to the Sox than they are in trade.

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Agree, but that wasn't my point.

So trading him (or McCann) for scraps accomplishes what exactly for the White Sox?

Collins will get chances in 2020.  He will be the first guy up if about 20% of the roster gets IL'd (Grandal, Mccann, Abreu, EE).  Sox could move McCann mid season as well.  No need to just punt Collins because he doesn't have an OD 2020 roster spot.  What you're advocating for isn't good business.  

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Just now, tray said:

The White Sox have, from time to time made trades or moves that take a players interests into account at least to some degree, including trading them to a location that they prefer or where they might get a better shot.  Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

There is a lot wrong with that with respect to Collins specifically.  

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3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There is a lot wrong with that with respect to Collins specifically.  

I would rather allocate McCann's salary towards a reliever. Probably helps the team more than a seldom used catcher.

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1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I would rather allocate McCann's salary towards a reliever. Probably helps the team more than a seldom used catcher.

I would rather spend the $6M on Cishek AND keep McCann.  The Sox aren't hurting for $, and don't need to punt McCann and his $5.4M salary to add another reliever.  

If they can trade McCann for a solid reliever, I won't complain.  But I think that move would've been done if it was possible.  

I'd also rather have a real backup catcher.  Collins may be a useful "gadgety" catcher, but I certainly don't want him as the only person capable of catching besides Grandal.  JMO, but also appears to be the Sox.  

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8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I would rather spend the $6M on Cishek AND keep McCann.  The Sox aren't hurting for $, and don't need to punt McCann and his $5.4M salary to add another reliever.  

If they can trade McCann for a solid reliever, I won't complain.  But I think that move would've been done if it was possible.  

I'd also rather have a real backup catcher.  Collins may be a useful "gadgety" catcher, but I certainly don't want him as the only person capable of catching besides Grandal.  JMO, but also appears to be the Sox.  

Kind of strange from a guy who pointed to McCann's $2.5 million salary last year and thought because of that, Kevan Smith was the better choice. 

I don't think the Sox spent all the money they spent on Grandal to have him not catch as much as possible. And with Encanarcion around, DH isn't much of an option vs. LHP.  This is such a limited role,  while his salary isn't a ton, it's still an overpay, especially if there is at least a little regression, which seems inevitable. 

Edited by Dick Allen

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2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kind of strange from a guy who pointed to McCann's $2.5 million salary last year and thought because of that, Kevan Smith was the better choice. 

I don't think the Sox spent all the money they spent on Grandal to have him not catch as much as possible.

Lol, really? Pointing out comments from over a year ago that were made shortly after McCann got non-tendered from one of the worst teams in baseball is pretty comical stuff.  No, I was not a huge fan of McCann signing last year.  But the guy was pretty dang good in 2020 and obviously the calculus has changed.  Or is changing one's opinion based on the collection of additional information not allowed in the world of Dick Allen?  

No shit the Sox want Grandal to catch as much as possible.  That doesn't mean you just trade McCann for scraps (which is likely all they'd get) because he doesn't appear to have a major role at the moment.  

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Lol, really? Pointing out comments from over a year ago that were made shortly after McCann got non-tendered from one of the worst teams in baseball is pretty comical stuff.  No, I was not a huge fan of McCann signing last year.  But the guy was pretty dang good in 2020 and obviously the calculus has changed.  Or is changing one's opinion based on the collection of additional information not allowed in the world of Dick Allen?  

No shit the Sox want Grandal to catch as much as possible.  That doesn't mean you just trade McCann for scraps (which is likely all they'd get) because he doesn't appear to have a major role at the moment.  

The point being the $5.4 million isn't a big deal, the Sox have a lot of money vs. the $2 million savings of McCann and Smith.  If money was a factor last year, why wouldn't it be this?

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9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The point being the $5.4 million isn't a big deal, the Sox have a lot of money vs. the $2 million savings of McCann and Smith.  If money was a factor last year, why wouldn't it be this?

Because the White Sox are trying to win this year and weren't last year?  This isn't that complicated.  I agree $5.4M isn't alot of money for a team trying to win baseball games, which is why I think trading him for nothing makes no sense. 

I don't care to go back and look at my comments from over a year ago about McCann, but I would assume my issues at the time of signing had more to do with rolling the dice on a vet without much mlb success and with only 2 years fof control instead of just giving younger guys like Collins and Zavala opportunities in what was certainly going to be a lost season.  I highly doubt my main criticism was the incremental cost difference between $2.5M and mlb minimum as you're seemingly suggesting.  

Edited by ChiSox59

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14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The point being the $5.4 million isn't a big deal, the Sox have a lot of money vs. the $2 million savings of McCann and Smith.  If money was a factor last year, why wouldn't it be this?

Because in 2019 the White Sox didn't have a goal of winning games and so every dollar spent in 2019 was a dollar that could potentially be better saved for 2020.  In 2020 the white sox have a goal of winning games so dollars in 2020 can potentially be far more valuable spending. 

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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Because in 2019 the White Sox didn't have a goal of winning games and so every dollar spent in 2019 was a dollar that could potentially be better saved for 2020.  In 2020 the white sox have a goal of winning games so dollars in 2020 can potentially be far more valuable spending. 

Right.  

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28 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because the White Sox are trying to win this year and weren't last year?  This isn't that complicated.  I agree $5.4M isn't alot of money for a team trying to win baseball games, which is why I think trading him for nothing makes no sense. 

I don't care to go back and look at my comments from over a year ago about McCann, but I would assume my issues at the time of signing had more to do with rolling the dice on a vet without much mlb success and with only 2 years fof control instead of just giving younger guys like Collins and Zavala opportunities in what was certainly going to be a lost season.  I highly doubt my main criticism was the incremental cost difference between $2.5M and mlb minimum as you're seemingly suggesting.  

You said he was a bad choice last year, and a good choice as a back up this year. I just feel the exact opposite. He was a good choice last year, my posts on his signing will confirm it, although I did erroneously refer to him as a good framer.  He's a bad choice this year. Grandal is here. There is no need to watch James regress for more than double the cash in a very limited role.

Of course this goes with the caveat they could get something useful. If it's just trash,  and  the team can't or won't use the savings to sign another pitcher, I agree, keep him, but chances are he won't be worth his paycheck. It's a back up to one of the best in the league, and the Sox have a ton of catchers on their 40. It's a luxury not needed. 

Edited by Dick Allen

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2 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

And if you think about it, if they resign Yolmer, 4 guys who received a significant amount of playing time (McCann, Engel, Yolmer, Sanchez) can potentially make up their bench.

And a very good bench it would be.

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1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

You said he was a bad choice last year, and a good choice as a back up this year. I just feel the exact opposite. He was a good choice last year, my posts on his signing will confirm it, although I did erroneously refer to him as a good framer.  He's a bad choice this year. Grandal is here. There is no need to watch James regress for more than double the cash in a very limited role.

 Of course this goes with the caveat they could get something useful. If it's just trash,  and  the team can't or won't use the savings to sign another pitcher, I agree, keep him, but chances are he won't be worth his paycheck. It's a back up to one of the best in the league, and the Sox have a ton of catchers on their 40. It's a luxury not needed. 

You're not getting anything of any significant value for one year of McCann, and it's not like there was a big money reliever begging to get signed at any point this offseason that McCann  prevented them from going out and getting. Sure Dellin Bentances is a sexy name, but he's a mess at the moment. 

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