TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: I do. I know people on her personal medical staff. You might also meet some medical staff from the Russian Olympic team that will tell you they're legit. That doesn't mean they're being honest. This reminds me of when MMA fans thought Vitor Belfort and Jon Jones were legit. If there's one thing the last 30ish years of sports has taught us is that extreme statistical outliers are almost always doping. If it seems to good to be true... Edited January 17, 2020 by TaylorStSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: You might also meet some medical staff from the Russian Olympic team that will tell you they're legit. That doesn't mean they're being honest. I would not say that if I didn't know them. These are former students. Not just people i met. I. do know people from the Russian and Chinese Olympic teams. I believe what they've told me and not surprised of the bans they've received. You can make all the guesses and suppositions you want. You are going to be wrong in most cases. Edited January 17, 2020 by ptatc 3 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 How come Houston gets to keep its WS trophy? Blatant cheating and the Altuve thing is crazy. It's obvious he was hiding something under that jersey, totally obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: I would not say that if I didn't know them. These are former students. Not just people i met. I. do know people from the Russian and Chinese Olympic teams. I believe what they've told me and not surprised of the bans they've receuved. You can make all the guesses and suppositions you want. You are going to be wrong in most cases. Taylor St. Sox thinks that there isn't a pro athlete in any sport that is clean, so quit arguing with him. You can't convince him otherwise. He thinks 100% of pro/olympic athletes are using PEDs. It's not worth it. Edited January 17, 2020 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: I would not say that if I didn't know them. These are former students. Not just people i met. I. do know people from the Russian and Chinese Olympic teams. I believe what they've told me and not surprised of the bans they've received. You can make all the guesses and suppositions you want. You are going to be wrong in most cases. Only the Russians and Chinese, huh? Seems legit. 😑 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Taylor St. Sox thinks that there isn't a pro athlete in any sport that is clean, so quit arguing with him. You can't convince him otherwise. He thinks 100% of pro/olympic athletes are using PEDs. No I don't. For example, there's only 2 members of the Sox I would bet the beach house on, but common sense tells us more of them are taking PED's. PED use is rampant throughout sports, but I certainly don't think everyone is using. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: No I don't. For example, there's only 2 members of the Sox I would bet the beach house on, but common sense tells us more of them are taking PED's. PED use is rampant throughout sports, but I certainly don't think everyone is using. Jose Abreu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, ron883 said: Jose Abreu? He's the one I think might have a legit exemption, but he's also probably 41 years old. 😉 I'm not going to publicly speculate on my own team, but the 2 I'm thinking of seem pretty obvious. Edited January 17, 2020 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Only the Russians and Chinese, huh? Seems legit. 😑 I wouldnt tell you about the ones that haven't been caught. Only the ones that have been or the ones I know are clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: No I don't. For example, there's only 2 members of the Sox I would bet the beach house on, but common sense tells us more of them are taking PED's. PED use is rampant throughout sports, but I certainly don't think everyone is using. You mean cynicism and lack of information tells you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: He's the one I think might have a legit exemption, but he's also probably 41 years old. 😉 I'm not going to publicly speculate on my own team, but the 2 I'm thinking of seem pretty obvious. Why not speculate, you're doing it for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) It's insane to me how strongly people believe in speculation that results from personal bias/prejudice. The lack of need for anything resembling objective evidence in our culture is just depressing. Edited January 17, 2020 by Eminor3rd 1 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Eminor3rd said: It's insane to me how strongly believe in speculation that results from personal bias/prejudice. The lack of need for anything resembling objective evidence in our culture is just depressing. No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox72 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: It's insane to me how strongly people believe in speculation that results from personal bias/prejudice. The lack of need for anything resembling objective evidence in our culture is just depressing. Especially as to how it translates across nearly all factors in life - many much more important than baseball. It really is depressing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said: It's insane to me how strongly believe in speculation that results from personal bias/prejudice. The lack of need for anything resembling objective evidence in our culture is just depressing. The odds of actually finding evidence in revenue sports is slim because the entities themselves have too much to lose monetarily. We saw this with the cover ups in the "steroid era" of baseball. It's different in the Olympics. For example Russia, Khazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia and Azberjian all have bans because at least 20 different athletes tested positive in 2012, but they weren't actually caught until 2018. India and Iran also had between 10-20 different athletes test positive during that span and have partial bans. PED's are simply everywhere in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 18 minutes ago, greg775 said: How come Houston gets to keep its WS trophy? Blatant cheating and the Altuve thing is crazy. It's obvious he was hiding something under that jersey, totally obvious. Vacating trophies is a very bad idea. It doesn't make sense in college and it doesn't make sense in the pros. You can't unring the bell, it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 hours ago, ptatc said: Didn't they suspend people as well as fine and remove draft picks from the team? Yes, they did, Now it is on to the next scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Here's another fun one: During Lance Armstrong's reign of TDF championships, 87% of the top 10 Tour De France finishers all tested positive at some point. That's 61 out of 70. Edited January 17, 2020 by TaylorStSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, TaylorStSox said: Here's another fun one: During Lance Armstrong's reign of TDF championships, 87% of the top 10 Tour De France finishers all test positive at some point. That's 61 out of 70. This may be the best single argument as to why we don't vacate championships. The fact is, one team got caught cheating, but it's fairly clear a number of teams are cheating in kind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: It's insane to me how strongly people believe in speculation that results from personal bias/prejudice. The lack of need for anything resembling objective evidence in our culture is just depressing. It's insane to me that speculation in a message board is met with derision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: It's insane to me that speculation in a message board is met with derision. It's gives him a quasi moral high ground. We've had these boards for 20 years. Is normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The odds of actually finding evidence in revenue sports is slim because the entities themselves have too much to lose monetarily. We saw this with the cover ups in the "steroid era" of baseball. It's different in the Olympics. For example Russia, Khazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia and Azberjian all have bans because at least 20 different athletes tested positive in 2012, but they weren't actually caught until 2018. India and Iran also had between 10-20 different athletes test positive during that span and have partial bans. PED's are simply everywhere in sports. I think most of this is right -- but the fact that you take the (defensible) premise of "there are systems in place that prevent us from proving the use of PEDs" as evidence that "most players are using PEDs and I know who they are" is the crux of the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: It's insane to me that speculation in a message board is met with derision. Speculation presented as speculation is not met with derision. Speculation presented as fact is rightly met with derision. Edited January 17, 2020 by Eminor3rd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Here's another fun one: During Lance Armstrong's reign of TDF championships, 87% of the top 10 Tour De France finishers all tested positive at some point. That's 61 out of 70. It's obvious that to compete in any endurance sport you have to be on the dope. You can enter the event but you ain't gonna win if you're all natty. Power sports mostly the same like sprinting, weight lifting, MMA, Bobsled. Especially when power/weight ratio is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: The odds of actually finding evidence in revenue sports is slim because the entities themselves have too much to lose monetarily. We saw this with the cover ups in the "steroid era" of baseball. It's different in the Olympics. For example Russia, Khazakhstan, Belarus, Armenia and Azberjian all have bans because at least 20 different athletes tested positive in 2012, but they weren't actually caught until 2018. India and Iran also had between 10-20 different athletes test positive during that span and have partial bans. PED's are simply everywhere in sports. But they get caught, it most instances in today's WADA world of blood testing. I'm not saying it doesnt exist, it's just not as side spread and rampant as you seem to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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