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Look at Ray Ray Run

MLB cheating scandal

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8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Losing the last pick of the 1st round and the last pick of the 2nd round doesn't really matter that much.  Its not like its a top 10 pick.

Luhnow and Hinch suspensions are basically nothingburgers IMO.  Who gives a fuck?  Hardly impacts the Astros on the field.

Losing the picks is far harsher than the manager/gm suspensions, but with how good the Astros are currently, its not really not going to impact them much.

Not sure what you expected to be honest. Basically figured draft picks taken away and suspensions to manager and front office personal.

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One puts the financial integrity of the game in question; which, to the owners, is much more detrimental and damaging to the product - regardless of how we see it.

This put the integrity of the game in question.

Also the financial for hundreds of players. And ticket sales. And playoff revenue.

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15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I would have loved to see a multiple year postseason ban, just to see the dynamics of how the Astros would be essentially forced to strip down their roster.  

How is this fair to the rest of the league on an un-balanced schedule as-is? 

 

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The problem for baseball is they could easily take away what the Braves gained by cheating - their international class that was obtained by the cheating.

Baseball in turn could not take away what the Astros gained by cheating - a World Series - without opening up Pandoras box.

Looks like Cora may be done all together.

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How bout the part of the report that Hinch protested the cheating, and went as far to damage the monitors Cora set up. Dude, you're the boss. Fire the guy.

Edited by mqr
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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

One puts the financial integrity of the game in question; which, to the owners, is much more detrimental and damaging to the product - regardless of how we see it.

The integrity of the game being in question is much more detrimental to the pocketbook and product than financial happenings in international free agency which the casual fan can't even really fathom.

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5 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Not sure what you expected to be honest. Basically figured draft picks taken away and suspensions to manager and front office personal.

Was hoping for at least a 1 season postseason ban, international spending money vacated for multiple seasons, at least 3 seasons of no top 3 picks.  This was tame, and frankly hardly deters cheating. 

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Just now, bmags said:

The integrity of the game being in question is much more detrimental to the pocketbook and product than financial happenings in international free agency which the casual fan can't even really fathom.

I certainly don't think so. As we learned in the steroid era, fans will pay to watch a product that entertains them and they couldn't really care less about the cheating. We may care, but we are in the minority of this. 

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1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I might be in the minority, 1st and 2nd round picks for 2 years is not a light a punishment.  

It is when you're picking at the very back of the draft.  

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1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I might be in the minority, 1st and 2nd round picks for 2 years is not a light a punishment.  

It's a pretty huge deal.

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Was hoping for at least a 1 season postseason ban, international spending money vacated for multiple seasons, at least 3 seasons of no top 3 picks.  This was tame, and frankly hardly deters cheating. 

They can't ban a team from the post-season; this isn't college sports. 

They would force an owner to sell before they banned a team from the playoffs. There are far too many issues with doing that; the PA wouldn't want players being punished like that for the actions of FO/coaches who were there before them. Players have incentives tied to post-seasons on contracts. Fans have bought tickets already under the premise that the team is going to compete for a championship. There are far too many moving parts to pull off something like that in professional sports.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I certainly don't think so. As we learned in the steroid era, fans will pay to watch a product that entertains them and they couldn't really care less about the cheating. We may care, but we are in the minority of this. 

Then they should just force the pitcher to announce what he is about to pitch before throwing it. Fans would love it.

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2 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

I might be in the minority, 1st and 2nd round picks for 2 years is not a light a punishment.  

I'm with you.  This is hardly a slap on the wrist.  This is a serious penalty for the individuals involved and the club.  Could Manfred have done more?  Could he have vacated the WS?  Sure, but that would have opened up a whole 'nother can of worms.

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Was hoping for at least a 1 season postseason ban, international spending money vacated for multiple seasons, at least 3 seasons of no top 3 picks.  This was tame, and frankly hardly deters cheating. 

The commissioner's office isn't going to gut a team for a decade. 

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I certainly don't think so. As we learned in the steroid era, fans will pay to watch a product that entertains them and they couldn't really care less about the cheating. We may care, but we are in the minority of this. 

This is a different type of cheating though. While it is probably less effective than PEDs are it was systematic and team wide in a way that taking PEDs aren't. This isn't as bad as shaving points, but it's close to that end of the spectrum than something like PEDs which I think is closer to something like paying recruits in college sports.

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They can't ban a team from the post-season; this isn't college sports. 

They would force an owner to sell before they banned a team from the playoffs. There are far too many issues with doing that; the PA wouldn't want players being punished like that for the actions of FO/coaches who were there before them. Players have incentives tied to post-seasons on contracts. Fans have bought tickets already under the premise that the team is going to compete for a championship. There are far too many moving parts to pull off something like that in professional sports.

I get that it would have been extremely harsh.  But that is what I was hoping for, and just answered the question.

If you don't want people to cheat, punish the living hell out of the cheaters.  This isn't deterring anyone.

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I would really like the author of Astroball to go back to his chapter of Beltran bragging about him picking up Darvish's signs and follow-up with whether this was actually just him looking at a monitor and communicating it to players.

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Just now, mqr said:

The commissioner's office isn't going to gut a team for a decade. 

Not sure how that guts an org for a decade.  

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I think the fine could have been more, something that lets the owners know this will hit them in the pocketbook hard if their Club does it.  Maybe 30 million or so.  That's the only complaint I have with the punishment.

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3 minutes ago, TomPickle said:

This is a different type of cheating though. While it is probably less effective than PEDs are it was systematic and team wide in a way that taking PEDs aren't. This isn't as bad as shaving points, but it's close to that end of the spectrum than something like PEDs which I think is closer to something like paying recruits in college sports.

Steroids were absolutely a systematic team wide system; there's a reason certain teams had more users than others.

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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think the fine could have been more, something that lets the owners know this will hit them in the pocketbook hard if their Club does it.  Maybe 30 million or so.  That's the only complaint I have with the punishment.

That's the maximum fine they can levy in this situation.

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