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MLB cheating scandal

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Someone would figure out a way to jam or distort signals (or hack into the comms)...yeah, I don’t think the LA City Council or state legislators claiming the 2017 and 18 WS trophies will have much of an impact.

I'm not qualified to address the technological challenges, but I suspect that a secure means of communication could be achieved. 

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2 hours ago, Lillian said:

 

As for the appropriateness of the punishments handed down by the Commissioner; As long as the perpetrators keep their World Series titles, it doesn't seem like justice has really been served here. Managers and GM's get fired all of the time, for doing nothing wrong, beyond failing to produce. That is not a harsh punishment and not sufficient to deter future violations. Beyond the deterrent issue, the fact is that the Astros, and perhaps the Red Sox, did not fairly earn their championships. That fact is not being addressed, by simply suspending a few people for one year. Well, I'm sure that has all been expressed by others, but that's my take. 

I agree with in spirit for most of this, but I really think a detailed investigation has to occur before any more punishment (if any) is handed out.

The problem here is similar to other baseball scandals. MLB tends to look the other way, things blow up, and there is no real policy in hand to deal with the situation. The industry and the union need to get together to hammer out things regarding this and other kinds of cheating. There will always be some kind cheating or shading things. But certain things can't be tolerated and long-term action needs to be taken to provide real deterrence. Fans pay to go to games. They are entitled not to be cheated.

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Here are the issues, as I see them:

1) Fairness - The victories in the Post Season were not fairly won. 

2) Justice - How do you try to rectify the injustice done and achieve some restitution? The only action which really fits the offense is to have the title, which was not won fairly, taken away. Exactly how that can be achieved is something that can be debated. It would understandably be problematic, at the very least. Questions such as; who would be declared the champions, what about the individual statistics compiled during the post season, what happens to the W. S. rings and what about the additional earnings derived from winning the Championship? However those issues would be resolved, in any case, the Astros should not be entitled to claim the World Series Championship in 2017.

3) Deterrent - Measures must be taken to mitigate the possibility of a recurrence of this behaviour. Perhaps strong penalties, as well as means of precluding any such future attempts, can all be part of that process. The use of electronic communication between the catcher and the pitcher would seem to be one viable strategy.

In summary; suspending players doesn't seem to be feasible. How can one be certain which players participated, or which ones knew and did, or didn't object. The more appropriate measure would be to simply deprive them of their unfairly awarded title of Champions. It's a team sport and that punishment affects the entire team. Strip them and the team of their fraudulently awarded title and let them live with that disappointment and shame. That is my humble opinion, and I'm sure that many have their own take, which is quite different.  

Edited by Lillian
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19 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Any evidence here?  

He was suspended for 50 games for a banned stimulant, which I guess is better than a hardcore steroid or high.

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5 hours ago, Lillian said:

Here are the issues, as I see them:

1) Fairness - The victories in the Post Season were not fairly won. 

2) Justice - How do you try to rectify the injustice done and achieve some restitution? The only action which really fits the offense is to have the title, which was not won fairly, taken away. Exactly how that can be achieved is something that can be debated. It would understandably be problematic, at the very least. Questions such as; who would be declared the champions, what about the individual statistics compiled during the post season, what happens to the W. S. rings and what about the additional earnings derived from winning the Championship? However those issues would be resolved, in any case, the Astros should not be entitled to claim the World Series Championship in 2017.

3) Deterrent - Measures must be taken to mitigate the possibility of a recurrence of this behaviour. Perhaps strong penalties, as well as means of precluding any such future attempts, can all be part of that process. The use of electronic communication between the catcher and the pitcher would seem to be one viable strategy.

In summary; suspending players doesn't seem to be feasible. How can one be certain which players participated, or which ones knew and did, or didn't object. The more appropriate measure would be to simply deprive them of their unfairly awarded title of Champions. It's a team sport and that punishment affects the entire team. Strip them and the team of their fraudulently awarded title and let them live with that disappointment and shame. That is my humble opinion, and I'm sure that many have their own take, which is quite different.  

You must strip the titles for the integrity of the game. If they leave it be, they better reinstate Pete Rose tomorrow. And apologize for penalizing the Black Sox. This is as bad as any. To know what pitch is coming??? Cmon. Fathom could get hits that way.

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I hate this response. I understand the sanctity of a clubhouse just as well as people in the MLB. I get it... and anyone who has played at a high level in the past 25 years has witnessed cheating (whether PED's or whatever) and certainly didn't speak up against their own. But, now that it has come to light there's just no reason to cite the sanctity of the clubhouse as something that bothers you about Fiers. What Fiers did was right, and it doesn't mean Keuchel was wrong (disagree with Balta here) but him not accepting that it was wrong and it's OK to tell the truth about cheating in a clubhouse bothers me a little. I understand 100% why people didn't come forward, and I don't believe it reflects negatively on everyone of them (we're all moralistically superior in our own minds than in the face of reality), but I believe it reflects negatively on you if you get angry at the one person being honest.

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Keuchel would have been viewed positively if he just apologized and said nothing else. His Fiers comment is awful.

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Great job by Keuchel endearing himself to a new fanbase in his first real opportunity. I'm sure Astros fans appreciate it at least.

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12 minutes ago, fathom said:

Keuchel would have been viewed positively if he just apologized and said nothing else. His Fiers comment is awful.

How was he not coached by the org. for these inevitable questions?!  What a bad look.

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https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/Brian-Cashman-Yankees-guard-Astros-sign-stealing-15001595.php

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/24/dallas-keuchel-apologizes-astros-sign-stealing-scandal

You have to look at Keuchel’s comments in a bigger context.  He’s still only one year removed from the team he spent his career with...and piling on now does what, exactly?  The horses are already out of the barn.  At least he has the guts to talk to the media at all.  Everyone else is running away from responsibility and simply trying to protect themselves, other than Beltran...who’s no longer an active player.  Would Fiers have done this were he still an active member of their roster?  Seems impossible, he had an axe to grind, so he got his revenge but he is still far from a hero in the eyes of the players, far from it.

Edited by caulfield12
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No need to overreact everyone....perhaps Dallas is just helping in the eventual recruitment of Mr. Springer next off season 😏

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You don’t burn bridges if you’re a current professional athlete...it’s just the way it is.

It’s the same mentality in the US armed forces, that you have to trust your brothers in the bunker next to you.  

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18 minutes ago, SleepyWhiteSox said:

How was he not coached by the org. for these inevitable questions?!  What a bad look.

PR debacle, as now the media is focusing on him more today than SoxFest.

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3 minutes ago, fathom said:

PR debacle, as now the media is focusing on him more today than SoxFest.

The entire Cubs’ Fest was a debacle except for Ross, but nobody will give a damn of they get back to the playoffs again this year.

Tony Kemp (traded) was one of their featured autograph guys.  It will all blow over and everyone will be complaining about carrier costs for Marquee or not being able to access the games.

24 hour news cycle.   Not to mention this whole impeachment thing, lol.

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17 minutes ago, fathom said:

PR debacle, as now the media is focusing on him more today than SoxFest.

I haven't seen it get mentioned since. 

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Also interesting that the first person to apologize is in the same boat as Fiers.

A. Not on the team

B. Couldn't directly benefit from said cheating, 

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12 minutes ago, mqr said:

I haven't seen it get mentioned since. 

Only thing they’ve been talking about on ESPN1000

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7 minutes ago, fathom said:

Only thing they’ve been talking about on ESPN1000

They haven't mentioned it once on WXRT and I've been listening all day :cool:

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2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

I hate this response. I understand the sanctity of a clubhouse just as well as people in the MLB. I get it... and anyone who has played at a high level in the past 25 years has witnessed cheating (whether PED's or whatever) and certainly didn't speak up against their own. But, now that it has come to light there's just no reason to cite the sanctity of the clubhouse as something that bothers you about Fiers. What Fiers did was right, and it doesn't mean Keuchel was wrong (disagree with Balta here) but him not accepting that it was wrong and it's OK to tell the truth about cheating in a clubhouse bothers me a little. I understand 100% why people didn't come forward, and I don't believe it reflects negatively on everyone of them (we're all moralistically superior in our own minds than in the face of reality), but I believe it reflects negatively on you if you get angry at the one person being honest.

This will always be the answer and attitude when you have a whistleblower in this type of situation. Right or wrong Fiers lost a great deal of friends. Same thing happens in every workplace with a union.

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