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caulfield12

Ventura returns to OkSt as “student assistant”

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A dude that has no passion to manage, no experience, no real natural charisma for it was elevated to Sox manager because he was a familiar face.  Thankfully unlike the NBA the head coach doesn't really matter too much or the Sox would have a Bulls like problem on a yearly basis.

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1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

A dude that has no passion to manage, no experience, no real natural charisma for it was elevated to Sox manager because he was a familiar face.  Thankfully unlike the NBA the head coach doesn't really matter too much or the Sox would have a Bulls like problem on a yearly basis.

Wish I had that KW quote equating Ventura to a four-star general or future CEO in terms of his leadership qualities.

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8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wish I had that KW quote equating Ventura to a four-star general or future CEO in terms of his leadership qualities.

Couldn't find that quote but I did find this article which really makes me not like Kenny Williams.

Quote

"If they are underperforming to this degree as a whole, then I would have to say right now -- and I've told the chairman [Jerry Reinsdorf] this -- at the end of the day, it falls on my desk. I hired the manager. I hired the general manager."

 


Williams then doubled down on the subject, saying that not only is Ventura in good standing despite the club's 32-40 record entering Friday, but he is essentially improving as a manager.

"[Ventura] understands the gig," Williams said. "His first year, he almost won manager of the year if it wasn't for two bad weeks at the end of the season. You don't go from that to what people are talking about now because you've gotten worse at your job. As a matter of fact, he's gotten exponentially better and more adept in a lot of situations."

lol, as if KW was in any danger of losing his job at any point post 2005.

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Why do we have to have a referendum on a guy who was manager 4 years ago because he is getting his degree? 

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9 minutes ago, mqr said:

Why do we have to have a referendum on a guy who was manager 4 years ago because he is getting his degree? 

Because it's Jan 15th and we are all staring out the window waiting for spring?

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2 hours ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I hope he isn't taking a spot of another student that could have had the gig.

Kind of difficult for a university to turn down the best player in the history of the program and maybe one of the ten most famous college baseball players of all-time. 

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5 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Pretty sad that he was handed an MLB manager job.

One of the more puzzling moments of franchise history

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7 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Wish I had that KW quote equating Ventura to a four-star general or future CEO in terms of his leadership qualities.

He called him “a leader of men” ....

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8 hours ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I hope he isn't taking a spot of another student that could have had the gig.

Why? Is someone there more deserving?

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3 hours ago, RTC said:

He called him “a leader of men” ....

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard a sh*t coach praised with that line in any of the three major sports. I would take all of SoxTalk out for dinner and drinks.

Edited by Richie

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It's mind boggling how much a guy who is going back to get his degree, and volunteers as an unpaid assistant at the school where he became famous, bothers some people. Your lives can't be that pathetic.

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8 hours ago, Richie said:

Why? Is someone there more deserving?

An actual grad student who wants to get his foot in the door in coaching? Just make Ventura a volunteer coach, why take a student assistant position away from someone?

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I don't really have anything against Robin Ventura then or now.  But I will never understand why took a job he didn't want, or why it was offered to him in the first place.  I only hope future managerial hires don't go this way.

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5 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I don't really have anything against Robin Ventura then or now.  But I will never understand why took a job he didn't want, or why it was offered to him in the first place.  I only hope future managerial hires don't go this way.

They just needed someone to take it on the chin for the team after 2011 and Ozzie/Dunn.

The problem is they actually played over their heads for most of 2012, going with something like 13 rookie pitchers over the course of the season.

Of course, 2013-2016 wasn’t as much fun, other than Abreu, Sale, Eaton and Q.   2016 was about as much of a disaster as 2011.  
 

Just wonder what he did in 2012 that was so effective, other than NOT bring Guillen. 
 

Then it all just disappeared, poof.   Beckham and Viciedo being massive disappointments didn’t help much.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Just wonder what he did in 2012 that was so effective, other than NOT bring Guillen. 

IMO - he drilled that team exceptionally hard on fundamentals and it showed as they were extremely fundamentally sound (Making correct throws, hitting cutoff man, rundowns, etc.) all year, with the exception of guys who weren't in their own training camp.

But, the team clearly wore down in September and hit a losing skid - this was almost entirely because their young pitchers had thrown so many more innings than the previous year, but Ventura interprets it as a reason to take it easy on the team in the spring of the next season so that they're fresher in September. The same players who had drilled so hard pre-2012 reached the 2013 season so out of practice that every ball on the ground turned into a clown show. 

By 2014, Ventura has a new extension and "Don't work them too hard" has become a motto for the entire coaching staff, up and down through the minors, and it was convenient because it meant the coaches didn't have to work that hard either. So when Abreu and Garcia clearly needed help in technique to keep themselves from getting hurt, or Marcus Semien needed to be drilled on basic footwork of a shortstop, the coaching staff did nothing but expect them to figure it out on their own.

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5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

They just needed someone to take it on the chin for the team after 2011 and Ozzie/Dunn.

 

Maybe you are right, but I looked at the hire as extremely important. The Guillen era was done. Whatever was left from the 2005 team was aging, and the franchise couldn't rest on past laurels anymore. The Ventura hire was interesting - for one day. Otherwise it made little sense.

Everyone took it on the chin in 2013. After the Sox got slaughtered by the Cubs, things only worsened. Board members were quoted in the Tribune as saying they just left everything to Jerry. And since Jerry wasn't talking publicly, the appearance was that no one cared the team was on its way to its worst season in 43 years, coming one loss short of 100. So far it is the beginning of a losing streak that has lasted seven seasons. I remember one pop up in between the mound and the plate and three Sox infielders converged only to let it fall in the grass about 10 feet in front of home. Ah, the memories.

I'm like most White Sox fans. I prefer to remember Ventura the third baseman, not Ventura the manager.

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18 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Maybe you are right, but I looked at the hire as extremely important. The Guillen era was done. Whatever was left from the 2005 team was aging, and the franchise couldn't rest on past laurels anymore. The Ventura hire was interesting - for one day. Otherwise it made little sense.

Everyone took it on the chin in 2013. After the Sox got slaughtered by the Cubs, things only worsened. Board members were quoted in the Tribune as saying they just left everything to Jerry. And since Jerry wasn't talking publicly, the appearance was that no one cared the team was on its way to its worst season in 43 years, coming one loss short of 100. So far it is the beginning of a losing streak that has lasted seven seasons. I remember one pop up in between the mound and the plate and three Sox infielders converged only to let it fall in the grass about 10 feet in front of home. Ah, the memories.

I'm like most White Sox fans. I prefer to remember Ventura the third baseman, not Ventura the manager.

I think it was simplistically a way to prove some cover for KW and JR...they knew a dark time was coming, they’d been putting it off for around five years at least, and they still pushed it until mid-season 2016.

Hard to criticize the manager when he was a lifetime fan favorite of many...back in the fold after ending his career “outside the family.”

Plus, without the experience, everything would be chalked up to learning on the job...so how can you criticize someone management put in an impossible position?   But, he didn't even want it, so he’s nobly soldiering on, etc.

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

I think it was simplistically a way to prove some cover for KW and JR...they knew a dark time was coming, they’d been putting it off for around five years at least, and they still pushed it until mid-season 2016.

Hard to criticize the manager when he was a lifetime fan favorite of many...back in the fold after ending his career “outside the family.”

Plus, without the experience, everything would be chalked up to learning on the job...so how can you criticize someone management put in an impossible position?   But, he didn't even want it, so he’s nobly soldiering on, etc.

Actually my last post was more of a shot at the FO than Ventura. The FO let the team go and 2013 was a horrible year. Ventura was put in an impossible position. I just would have wanted a different baseball man managing the club. Otherwise, 2013 just showed how the franchise had been neglected and only more losing followed.

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On 1/15/2020 at 1:08 PM, Moan4Yoan said:

Pretty sad that he was handed an MLB manager job.

Don Kessinger was Sox player/manager. That was a worst hire.

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