COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I had a rational discussion with a neighbor whose adult kid with two children is out of work because he works for a "non essential" business as does his wife. The world is a vastly different place if you are still collecting a pay check. And to anyone who remembers what it's like to suddenly be without a job, now realize that no one is hiring because they are all closed. 

Now look at the picture above and analyse the confrontation as being between the getting paid and the not getting paid. You have someone secure in receiving a check and paying for their rent and food bravely stopping someone not getting paid and potentially homeless from working.  It's a strange time to be alive. 

We really don't know her job situation at all. She could be a retiree like that lady in Ohio who was just mad she couldn't get her hair colored.  I prefer to look at it in the lens that it is someone who is working every day to save lives Through his actions confronting someone who doesn't care to save lives through their own actions.  

[Texsox]

5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

We really don't know her job situation at all. She could be a retiree like that lady in Ohio who was just mad she couldn't get her hair colored.  I prefer to look at it in the lens that it is someone who is working every day to save lives Through his actions confronting someone who doesn't care to save lives through their own actions.  

Which is valid.

I do believe it is easier to take a hard stand on a full stomach and a paycheck in your back pocket. 

[tray]

Holy crap was that an ugly protest, and there were more just like it in several States.

"Nurses from a hospital in Denver were determined that this would not be repeated, so they had to take vital time from their duties to peacefully stand in a line to keep the roads clear for emergency vehicles. The Trumpers WERE FURIOUS, and sat on their excessively loud horns while literally screaming at the health care workers. The lady screamed at the guy to go to China, because there’s always an excuse for racism."

Read the rest of this story here, and as always place things into context, consider the source of the story,  arguments pro and con, and do your own research:

https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/watch-nurses-stand-in-the-street-to-silently-protest-anti-lockdown-demonstrators-in-colorado/

In this case, Alternet is a liberal media outlet,  but much of the reporting on this story  seems to be borne out by other sources, and pictures and videos do not lie.

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by tray

[bmags]

38 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Which is valid.

I do believe it is easier to take a hard stand on a full stomach and a paycheck in your back pocket. 

I would have preferred stronger resources to prevent the layoffs from happening but you keep saying these people don’t have a paycheck. The CARES act supplemented state unemployment with an additional $600/week which for many puts them very close to 100% of their paycheck the next 4 months if not greater than 100%.
 

there has been delays in receiving this, but I very much do not want or expect anyone out of work to be completely out of income for this time.

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I would have preferred stronger resources to prevent the layoffs from happening but you keep saying these people don’t have a paycheck. The CARES act supplemented state unemployment with an additional $600/week which for many puts them very close to 100% of their paycheck the next 4 months if not greater than 100%.
 

there has been delays in receiving this, but I very much do not want or expect anyone out of work to be completely out of income for this time.

From what I've heard from three people who were laid off, they took drops in income. Unemployment did not cover their full salaries. In two cases they were sales reps who are down almost 75% because unemployment is only covering their base wages, not bonuses or commissions. The third was a product manager who was earning approximately (I've been out of the industry for a while but my guess is close) $80,000. They have only been out of work for two weeks so perhaps they aren't aware of everything they will be receiving, but they are pretty stressed right now and want to get back to work. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

My god, this woman looks like an idiot.  Of course, she would never protest racism, income disparity, and endless wars, now would she?

So instead of that nurse trying to save someone's life or caring for their loved ones, they have to stand in traffic and risk their lives because someone wants the right to kill people.  What a metaphor for 2020.  The pro-life party wants to be able to infect people with a virus that kills somewhere between 1-3% of people who are infected with it, because freedom.

[bmags]

19 minutes ago, Texsox said:

From what I've heard from three people who were laid off, they took drops in income. Unemployment did not cover their full salaries. In two cases they were sales reps who are down almost 75% because unemployment is only covering their base wages, not bonuses or commissions. The third was a product manager who was earning approximately (I've been out of the industry for a while but my guess is close) $80,000. They have only been out of work for two weeks so perhaps they aren't aware of everything they will be receiving, but they are pretty stressed right now and want to get back to work. 

So in Texas they could max receive is $561/week + $600 per week, so it's the equivalent of 55k a year. Bonuses are tricky but commission is typically calculated into the earnings, so hopefully they are mistaken on that.

I'm not saying this isn't difficult and they shouldn't stress, they should and going from even 80k to 55k is hard. But hopefully it will be relatively short-term, and I just think acting like people who are advocating staying at home are doing so out of privilege and are trying to keep people who don't have a paycheck from getting work is just not an accurate framing. The more people stay at home, the sooner they can get to work. If they open it up and cases surge... well people were already staying at home before. Bigger companies will let their folks wfh. All the restaurants and employment around that will be hit, and so on and so on.

 

[mqr]

 

[mqr]

Oil being free seems bad

[turnin' two]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Now look at the picture above and analyse the confrontation as being between the getting paid and the not getting paid. You have someone secure in receiving a check and paying for their rent and food bravely stopping someone not getting paid and potentially homeless from working.  It's a strange time to be alive. 

Anyone here see Frozen?  I've seen it like a million times.  There is a part where the trolls are singing, and they say "People make bad choices when they are mad or scared or stressed.  People everywhere are mad, scared and stressed.  They don't know how to act.  

 

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

We really don't know her job situation at all. She could be a retiree like that lady in Ohio who was just mad she couldn't get her hair colored.  I prefer to look at it in the lens that it is someone who is working every day to save lives Through his actions confronting someone who doesn't care to save lives through their own actions.  

She could be like that retiree.  I wonder why you prefer to look at it through the worst possible lens?  Maybe your own biases? 

But as you said.  We know nothing about this lady.  Maybe she is mad over what we would say is no big deal.  Maybe she's upset because as texsox said, maybe she lost her job, is facing foreclosure or eviction.  Maybe she has seen her retirement completely destroyed.  Maybe family members have lost their jobs.  Maybe she hasn't been able to hold her granddaughter in 6 weeks.  Who knows, maybe she is just an idiot. Whatever it is, she is out of sorts.  And if there is no attempt at understanding why people are upset, it will just lead to more and worse conflict.  

A little empathy can really go a long way.

If you throw a little love their way, you'll bring out their best.  

[Jerksticks]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Oil being free seems bad

Yea.  Seems like the lights are off a lot of places

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Oil being free seems bad

Worse than free, paying you to store it.

[StrangeSox]

Something to keep in mind about those protests is that they're getting enormous media coverage for gatherings that are at most a few dozen people each.

 

These are not, at least yet, a mass movement. Media covering and portraying them like they are will help turn the current heavily-pro-distancing public opinion. These are deeply political protests organized by long-time operatives who are getting way more media attention than they deserve.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, turnin' two said:

Anyone here see Frozen?  I've seen it like a million times.  There is a part where the trolls are singing, and they say "People make bad choices when they are mad or scared or stressed.  People everywhere are mad, scared and stressed.  They don't know how to act.  

 

She could be like that retiree.  I wonder why you prefer to look at it through the worst possible lens?  Maybe your own biases? 

But as you said.  We know nothing about this lady.  Maybe she is mad over what we would say is no big deal.  Maybe she's upset because as texsox said, maybe she lost her job, is facing foreclosure or eviction.  Maybe she has seen her retirement completely destroyed.  Maybe family members have lost their jobs.  Maybe she hasn't been able to hold her granddaughter in 6 weeks.  Who knows, maybe she is just an idiot. Whatever it is, she is out of sorts.  And if there is no attempt at understanding why people are upset, it will just lead to more and worse conflict.  

A little empathy can really go a long way.

If you throw a little love their way, you'll bring out their best.  

I think having her at home was throwing a little love her way. It didn't bring out her best.

[mqr]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Worse than free, paying you to store it.

My assumption is that the effect on us is gas gets super duper cheap for us, (it was already $0.98 in bumblefuck Michigan yesterday), it stops getting produced and as things ramp back up gas prices explode. 

Not to mention where we start to see real supply chain issues. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by mqr

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, mqr said:

Oil being free seems bad

Yeah, this is ugly.  It is an amazing time to watch this happen in real life instead of always reading about them in text books or something.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

Something to keep in mind about those protests is that they're getting enormous media coverage for gatherings that are at most a few dozen people each.

 

These are not, at least yet, a mass movement. Media covering and portraying them like they are will help turn the current heavily-pro-distancing public opinion. These are deeply political protests organized by long-time operatives who are getting way more media attention than they deserve.

I mean I'm not sure it matters. Fox news is going to play it up, soon it will be 55/45 for and against, and more will die/lose money than if these people didn't do it. OTOH it will piss off liberals.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

My assumption is that the effect on us is gas gets super duper cheap for us, (it was already $0.98 in bumblefuck Michigan yesterday), it stops getting produced and as things ramp back up gas prices explode. 

If they can't find places to store it, eventually a bunch of wells will be shut down. For now they are still producing it at a loss, who knows how long they make that decision.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

If they can't find places to store it, eventually a bunch of wells will be shut down. For now they are still producing it at a loss, who knows how long they make that decision.

The issue right now is the price speculators apparently. The contracts for May oil delivery come due tomorrow, and if I'm a financial investor I don't particularly want to show up in Oklahoma to take delivery of the oil myself. Normally I could sell that contract to refiners, but the refiners aren't buying right now. So, the price speculators are dumping their contracts today to avoid having to take physical delivery of the material tomorrow. 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

If they can't find places to store it, eventually a bunch of wells will be shut down. For now they are still producing it at a loss, who knows how long they make that decision.

 

3 minutes ago, mqr said:

My assumption is that the effect on us is gas gets super duper cheap for us, (it was already $0.98 in bumblefuck Michigan yesterday), it stops getting produced and as things ramp back up gas prices explode. 

That's the fun part.  Gas isn't something you make overnight.  This is like a 6 month long process to drill, pump. deliver, refine, and deliver again.  There is no playbook for what's happening now.  Six months from now scenarios could be everything from the Great Depression, to business as normal, and somehow the producers and refiners have to guess the right one, when this has literally never happened before in the modern world.

 

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Anyone here see Frozen?  I've seen it like a million times.  There is a part where the trolls are singing, and they say "People make bad choices when they are mad or scared or stressed.  People everywhere are mad, scared and stressed.  They don't know how to act.  

 

She could be like that retiree.  I wonder why you prefer to look at it through the worst possible lens?  Maybe your own biases? 

But as you said.  We know nothing about this lady.  Maybe she is mad over what we would say is no big deal.  Maybe she's upset because as texsox said, maybe she lost her job, is facing foreclosure or eviction.  Maybe she has seen her retirement completely destroyed.  Maybe family members have lost their jobs.  Maybe she hasn't been able to hold her granddaughter in 6 weeks.  Who knows, maybe she is just an idiot. Whatever it is, she is out of sorts.  And if there is no attempt at understanding why people are upset, it will just lead to more and worse conflict.  

A little empathy can really go a long way.

If you throw a little love their way, you'll bring out their best.  

I mean, she screamed "you should go back to China" at that nurse while he is trying to make sure ambulances are able to get to the hospital, but sure she definitely needs someone to throw her a little love

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Anyone here see Frozen?  I've seen it like a million times.  There is a part where the trolls are singing, and they say "People make bad choices when they are mad or scared or stressed.  People everywhere are mad, scared and stressed.  They don't know how to act.  

 

She could be like that retiree.  I wonder why you prefer to look at it through the worst possible lens?  Maybe your own biases? 

But as you said.  We know nothing about this lady.  Maybe she is mad over what we would say is no big deal.  Maybe she's upset because as texsox said, maybe she lost her job, is facing foreclosure or eviction.  Maybe she has seen her retirement completely destroyed.  Maybe family members have lost their jobs.  Maybe she hasn't been able to hold her granddaughter in 6 weeks.  Who knows, maybe she is just an idiot. Whatever it is, she is out of sorts.  And if there is no attempt at understanding why people are upset, it will just lead to more and worse conflict.  

A little empathy can really go a long way.

If you throw a little love their way, you'll bring out their best.  

I would say that works both ways.  Maybe if she found a better way to protest other than trying to kill people at a hospital, I'd have a bit more empathy.

 

[turnin' two]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would say that works both ways.  Maybe if she found a better way to protest other than trying to kill people at a hospital, I'd have a bit more empathy.

 

Yeah, definitely true.  

[default]

1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Anyone here see Frozen?  I've seen it like a million times.  There is a part where the trolls are singing, and they say "People make bad choices when they are mad or scared or stressed.  People everywhere are mad, scared and stressed.  They don't know how to act.  

 

She could be like that retiree.  I wonder why you prefer to look at it through the worst possible lens?  Maybe your own biases? 

But as you said.  We know nothing about this lady.  Maybe she is mad over what we would say is no big deal.  Maybe she's upset because as texsox said, maybe she lost her job, is facing foreclosure or eviction.  Maybe she has seen her retirement completely destroyed.  Maybe family members have lost their jobs.  Maybe she hasn't been able to hold her granddaughter in 6 weeks.  Who knows, maybe she is just an idiot. Whatever it is, she is out of sorts.  And if there is no attempt at understanding why people are upset, it will just lead to more and worse conflict.  

A little empathy can really go a long way.

If you throw a little love their way, you'll bring out their best.  

Fantastic post.

Empathy is exclusive of agreement.  You can choose both empathy and disagreement at the same time.  

Some people just don’t get it.  You absolutely get it man.  Hats off to you.

[mqr]

The thing that drives me nuts about these people is that we all, including most trump people, have made and will continue to make pretty incredible sacrifices for the well being of all of us and it's all going to be for not because of a group of paid protesters and the terminally stupid. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by mqr