COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

No, but somebody might. Then see this . . .

FWIW i did check.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I ask this with no political agenda or motivation, but given how low the positive rates have been in IL for a couple weeks now, could one argue that we're opening too slowly? It almost feels like Phase 3 could've started a week or two ago, and at this rate, Phase 4 should be in the near future rather than in July/August

You're in good shape on declining rate but the number of positive cases that are untraceable is still too high. If you open things up too rapidly and cases level out at this spot because you can't limit the spread of new cases, then you never reach the next phase. 

[StrangeSox]

 

[StrangeSox]

 

[The Beast]

12 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

 

Why have partisans become so toxic? Was it this bad during the Clinton and Bush years?

[Iwritecode]

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I ask this with no political agenda or motivation, but given how low the positive rates have been in IL for a couple weeks now, could one argue that we're opening too slowly? It almost feels like Phase 3 could've started a week or two ago, and at this rate, Phase 4 should be in the near future rather than in July/August

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/05/27/illinois-is-the-only-state-meeting-trumps-guidelines-for-reopening-amid-coronavirus/

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Why have partisans become so toxic? Was it this bad during the Clinton and Bush years?

Yes, but I don’t think you would have seen the hatred you’re seeing today in terms of the complete lack of empathy or at best indifference to one’s political enemies.   Back then, there was still a common sense of what it meant to be an American, like with the first Gulf War and 9/11, the Oklahoma City bombing, Columbine...people at least we were able to set aside their differences and come together when necessary.  One thing’s 100% certain, those past decades would not have seen a government official openly talk about people like they were cattle or office equipment.

 

"Our capital stock hasn't been destroyed — our human capital stock is ready to get back to work, and so there are lots of reasons to believe that we can get going way faster than we have in previous crises,"  WH advisor Kevin Hassett said Sunday on CNN

Edited May 28, 2020 by caulfield12

[Jose Abreu]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

You're in good shape on declining rate but the number of positive cases that are untraceable is still too high. If you open things up too rapidly and cases level out at this spot because you can't limit the spread of new cases, then you never reach the next phase. 

 

47 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/05/27/illinois-is-the-only-state-meeting-trumps-guidelines-for-reopening-amid-coronavirus/

Thanks!

[bmags]

9 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

Thanks!

I think Chicago has been a little misguided re: lakefront, but, Chicago's numbers are quite a bit higher than the state as a whole though declining significantly. It's a tough problem, but I think they've missed out in doing some things to allow people outdoor space such as closing down certain city streets to cars, which would alleviate the lakefront path anyway. Michigan ave could have been a good place for that which already would have had lower traffic with the closed down retail, and there are entry points to LSD through wacker as a midway point.

[NWINFan]

11 hours ago, The Beast said:

Why have partisans become so toxic? Was it this bad during the Clinton and Bush years?

Our political climate has always been on the toxic side, but we are now hitting new lows. If there was ever a time for bi-partisanship, it is now. But it isn't happening. The Democrats have their issues, but most of this starts with Trump and his constant abusing his executive powers. Key leaders of both parties should bi-pass Trump and Biden, and try to come up with ways to unite the country and cope with this crisis. We need some long-term thinking. The hell with November.

I drove past a school in my town and saw a long line of cars heading into the parking lot. I wondered why since school has been out for so long. People were picking up food. I don't live in a high-income area, but the town is not considered poor by any means. But here were people looking for food. Nothing worth a crap is happening in Washington. To hell with Trump and to hell with Biden. It's time responsible leaders really do something.

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Our political climate has always been on the toxic side, but we are now hitting new lows. If there was ever a time for bi-partisanship, it is now. But it isn't happening. The Democrats have their issues, but most of this starts with Trump and his constant abusing his executive powers. Key leaders of both parties should bi-pass Trump and Biden, and try to come up with ways to unite the country and cope with this crisis. We need some long-term thinking. The hell with November.

I drove past a school in my town and saw a long line of cars heading into the parking lot. I wondered why since school has been out for so long. People were picking up food. I don't live in a high-income area, but the town is not considered poor by any means. But here were people looking for food. Nothing worth a crap is happening in Washington. To hell with Trump and to hell with Biden. It's time responsible leaders really do something.

When you have gone through three personal tragedies, at the very least you have the ability to demonstrate empathy/care/concern.   Trump has avoided any recognition of that 100,000 mark...deliberately creating non-existent controversies to distract from it.   Even Nixon and LBJ could have come across like funeral home directors compared to this guy.   Can anyone imagine either Bush, Reagan, Carter, Clinton or Obama struggling in such an obvious “92 mph fastball down Broadway teed up for the batter” situation?  The only Broadway we get is threats to murder someone there (undoubtedly a bad guy, probably illegal) in NYC in broad daylight and likely get away with it. 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Interesting thread 

 

Overall death numbers also didn't support the idea that more people are dying from suicide etc than COVID.

[Quin]

Before anyone continues posting, I advise you to read the coronavirus rules thread regarding political discussion.

[Texsox]

17 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I ask this with no political agenda or motivation, but given how low the positive rates have been in IL for a couple weeks now, could one argue that we're opening too slowly? It almost feels like Phase 3 could've started a week or two ago, and at this rate, Phase 4 should be in the near future rather than in July/August

We'll never know if we opened too slow, but we will know if it was too fast. 

[Texsox]

Curious what y'all think the strategy should be for companies that are reopening if profit was your only concern. Play to the "we don't need to stinkin' mask" crowd or play to the "MASKS! GLOVES! STERILIZE EVERYTHING!!" group. 

I'm not certain if the hyper conscious folks will be out anyway so it seems that more customers may appreciate the we're fighting the dictators approach.  

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Curious what y'all think the strategy should be for companies that are reopening if profit was your only concern. Play to the "we don't need to stinkin' mask" crowd or play to the "MASKS! GLOVES! STERILIZE EVERYTHING!!" group. 

I'm not certain if the hyper conscious folks will be out anyway so it seems that more customers may appreciate the we're fighting the dictators approach.  

If I was an employer with an office building or something like that...with a workforce that wasn't low-wage people, I'd worry way more about liability if I didn't require some extensive safety procedures. Maybe the 20 people who sue me after getting sick because I let unmasked people into my office don't win in the end, but how much do I spend on legal fees fighting those cases? There's a reason why it's a major priority of the Congressional Republicans to offer some sort of immunity.

[bmags]

excellent.

26k tests were run yesterday with only 1500 new cases, a positive rate of 5.8%

[bmags]

ICU and ventilators used by covid patients continues to fall as well, we have definitely been identifying more non-serious cases.

Non-covid patients have gone up though, interestingly. May mean hospitals opening to more procedures again.

[Balta1701]

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/27/science.abc6197

Science magazine article (pretty readable) on masking:

Quote

Recent studies have shown that in addition to droplets, SARS-CoV-2 may also be transmitted through aerosols. A study in hospitals in Wuhan, China, found SARS-CoV-2 in aerosols further than 6 ft from patients with higher concentrations detected in more crowded areas (8). Estimates using an average sputum viral load for SARS-CoV-2 indicate that 1 min of loud speaking could generate >1000 virion-containing aerosols (9). Assuming viral titers for infected super-emitters (with 100-fold higher viral load than average) yields an increase to more than 100,000 virions in emitted droplets per minute of speaking.

The World Health Organization (WHO) recommendations for social distancing of 6 ft and hand washing to reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2 are based on studies of respiratory droplets carried out in the 1930s. These studies showed that large, ~100 μm droplets produced in coughs and sneezes quickly underwent gravitational settling (1). However, when these studies were conducted, the technology did not exist for detecting submicron aerosols. As a comparison, calculations predict that in still air, a 100-μm droplet will settle to the ground from 8 ft in 4.6 s whereas a 1-μm aerosol particle will take 12.4 hours (4). Measurements now show that intense coughs and sneezes that propel larger droplets more than 20 ft can also create thousands of aerosols that can travel even further (1). Increasing evidence for SARS-CoV-2 suggests the 6 ft WHO recommendation is likely not enough under many indoor conditions where aerosols can remain airborne for hours, accumulate over time, and follow air flows over distances further than 6 ft (5, 10).

In outdoor environments, numerous factors will determine the concentrations and distance traveled, and whether respiratory viruses remain infectious in aerosols. Breezes and winds often occur and can transport infectious droplets and aerosols long distances. Asymptomatic individuals who are speaking while exercising can release infectious aerosols that can be picked up by air streams (10). Viral concentrations will be more rapidly diluted outdoors, but few studies have been carried out on outdoor transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Additionally, SARS-CoV-2 can be inactivated by ultraviolet radiation in sunlight, and it is likely sensitive to ambient temperature and relative humidity, as well as the presence of atmospheric aerosols that occur in highly polluted areas. Viruses can attach to other particles such as dust and pollution, which can modify the aerodynamic characteristics and increase dispersion. Moreover, people living in areas with higher concentrations of air pollution have been shown to have higher severity of COVID-19 (11). Because respiratory viruses can remain airborne for prolonged periods before being inhaled by a potential host, studies are needed to characterize the factors leading to loss of infectivity over time in a variety of outdoor environments over a range of conditions

Given how little is known about the production and airborne behavior of infectious respiratory droplets, it is difficult to define a safe distance for social distancing. Assuming SARS-CoV-2 virions are contained in submicron aerosols, as is the case for influenza virus, a good comparison is exhaled cigarette smoke, which also contains submicron particles and will likely follow comparable flows and dilution patterns. The distance from a smoker at which one smells cigarette smoke indicates the distance in those surroundings at which one could inhale infectious aerosols. In an enclosed room with asymptomatic individuals, infectious aerosol concentrations can increase over time. Overall, the probability of becoming infected indoors will depend on the total amount of SARS-CoV-2 inhaled. Ultimately, the amount of ventilation, number of people, how long one visits an indoor facility, and activities that affect air flow will all modulate viral transmission pathways and exposure (10). For these reasons, it is important to wear properly fitted masks indoors even when 6 ft apart.

 

[NorthSideSox72]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

excellent.

26k tests were run yesterday with only 1500 new cases, a positive rate of 5.8%

IL also has released guidelines for camps and day cares now, the detailed ones. So for those of us with kids awaiting camps or other child care, it's with the providers at this point to see what they can do.

Our summer camp (YMCA) had already cancelled until June 29th. Hoping maybe they can open then. But the older kid has an overnight camp in mid-July, downstate. Overnights are Phase 4. So we wait.

 

[greg775]

Illinois governor tonight was subject of a report on that station nobody seems to like (FOX News) as the governor who has proven to be  one of the most power hungry governors during COVID. Michigan and Cali up there too. The piece did not present him in a positive light. Just wondered how you all would rate his performance during COVID 1 through 10. I know Illinois is losing a lot of population because of taxes; If and I say IF he's perceived as a bad governor, maybe even more will bolt from the city and state. Don't shoot the messenger; just saying what tonight's report was on TV. I'd give the Kansas governor a 3 out of 10.

Edited May 29, 2020 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Administration initially dispensed scarce covid-19 drug Remdesivir to some hospitals that didn’t need it 

Officials describe early missteps that delayed treatment to critically ill patients

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/28/remdesivir-coronavirus-trump/?itid=lk_inline_manual_27&itid=lk_inline_manual_9&itid=lk_inline_manual_11

[Quin]

So far only three states have met CDC guidelines for reopening: Illinois, Connecticut, and New York.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/499915-only-three-states-have-met-the-white-houses

Great job by the governors for exhibiting patience in their handling. Proud of my home state and current state. My dad lives in Arizona now, but still handles some legal cases for Illinois that he has to appear in court for, so I'm glad he'll be safer flying than if things were rushed.

[Jerksticks]

17 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/27/science.abc6197

Science magazine article (pretty readable) on masking:

 

Wow that’s terrifying how easy this spreads.  
 

And now with the riots and many states opening, we’re for sure going to see exponential death across the board.  There’s no other possible outcome.  Death will grow exponentially since spreading will do the same. 
 

Only 2 million people have it.  
 

 

[pcq]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

Wow that’s terrifying how easy this spreads.  
 

And now with the riots and many states opening, we’re for sure going to see exponential death across the board.  There’s no other possible outcome.  Death will grow exponentially since spreading will do the same. 
 

Only 2 million people have it.  
 

 

My late preacher said masks are for wusses and atheists.