COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[Big Hurtin]

Now blaming gold star families for giving the virus to him 🤦‍♂️.

 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

My point was comparative of how states are handling the economic burden.  I guess I need to come right out in this thread and pick a side and defend it until I get banned sort of like real life.  Got it.  Carry on.

 

 

If your side is "we all need to work together to beat this fucking virus" then we will be on the same side.

 

and I have never threatened banning and never even considered it, so I don't know why your brought that up

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

22 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

Was her choice...she was a high school student that only wanted to work 4 or 5 hours a week on the weekend during school.  When she was asked to come back and to work more hours to help the carry out business her answer was no....unless they could top the $800 for doing nothing.

Thus this girl that was making a little spending money now received $6K in unemployment.

You keep spreading these lies and misinformation.

People that are making $100 a week in regular work don't even qualify for enhanced federal assistance right now, and when there was $600 they wouldn't have met MOST state minimum thresholds to get any benefits; therefore they weren't eligible for the additional $600 - WHICH AGIAN, HAS NOT EXISTED FOR WEEKS. Additionally, if you are being claimed as a dependent and your parents received the stimulus check for households, you were not eligible for the $600 in additional benefits*** (Unless very specific circumstances were met that I post below)

You're also talking about a hostess at a restaurant that... has no indoor business during a pandemic. A hostess who seats people at tables that aren't available to be sat. 

Let's use Illinois as an example, in order to get this fictitious $200 you've thrown on top of the $600, you'd have to have made $11,000 in your two highest paid quarters from the year prior (That's $198/wk benefits). You said she was making $100 in 5/6 hours (which is obviously a lie, because the going rate for a high school hostess in a regular mom and pop restaurant is $12-$14 an hour depending on minimum wage in the county). We'll say she earns $100/wk for the sake of this argument and just assume you were wrong about the hours. In her two highest earning quarters, we'll say she made a little extra and made $3000. Here's the good news, that eclipses the state threshold in Illinois of $1600) so she will qualify. Ok, so what does she get in benefits for her $3000? $54/wk. So, if she qualified because she somehow wasn't claimed as a dependent and her parents didn't get a stimulus check for her (which likely is not true), she was making $654 wk for a couple months. That restaurant shouldn't have even needed her position in the first place, and there was never any reason for a kid to take on any risk for her or her family to make $3000 every six months. The restaurant should have been supported by the government due to a forced demand shock outside of industry control. But none of that happened. 

Instead we have people like you going around the internet lying about circumstances to complain that some already criminally underpaid people might actually be making a little extra money to eat 3 full meals a day with their kids for once... during a pandemic where they're choice was go to work and risk the health of your family for $12/hr, or be shamed for... doing what was best for there family.

And the humor of all of this, is you're sitting here arguing about something that equates to $34,000 a year if it were worked full time. $654/wk is $34,000. 

The maximum benefit in Illinois is $478/wk. That's $24,856. You're worried about a couple people making $34,000 because you think they're worth less than that. It's truly remarkable to me. And again... a high school student whose parents claimed her was not eligible for the $600 assistance so your story is complete nonsense.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Here are the requirements for a young person qualifying:

https://wdr.doleta.gov/directives/attach/UIPL/UIPL_16-20_Change_1.pdf

Basically,  if your friends restaurant was open for business, and she refused to return to work she was not eligible. They did expand benefits to allow students who had a job lined up for the summer or spring that was pulled to receive some benefits; as well as students who had to quit their job to take care of an ill family member.

Lastly, let me add that they take your previous 12 months. If you just started working, or hadn't met the threshold, you qualify for no benefits no matter what. So for a student or high school kid with very limited work experience or history, it's very possible she doesn't even have a previous 12 months or 2 quarters worth of hours.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

AND SADLY, Illinois is far from the worst state or system. 20 states don't even allow part-time workers to file for unemployment period. In Florida that MAXIMUM weekly benefit is $275/wk. Louisiana 247, Tennessee $275, Arizona $240, Alabama $275.

Illinois is the middle of the pack in payouts and rules and the entire system is a disaster here. Imagine how bad it is in Florida. 

It's exhausting listening to a bunch of middle class people do mental gymnastics to explain why the 50 richest people in the country just eclipsed the wealth of 50% of the US all the while being angered over $600/wk for 8 weeks for people who have always been exploited. And Chappas, I was making $2300/wk and my company was forced closed. Wonder if you were out screaming about people like me who have been forced to accept lesser paying jobs - I just took a 27% haircut - now, outside of my control and no fault of my own, after taking a 56% haircut on unemployment for a couple months. 

Trickle down economics has expanded the wealth gap faster than any economic model in the history of this country; sans possibly the Gilded age following the Industrial Revolution. The fact that people are still out here preaching this corporate propogandist nonsense is maddening for me. You should be fighting for your neighbor, the little guy, the people like you... not pandering to a bunch of people who are literally stealing from you in broad daylight each and every day.

Someone tell me what "skill" it took to work in a manufacturing plant. All full time work is skilled labor; regardless of profession. This notion of skilled and unskilled workers was a fallacy created to demean and discredit the work of those who literally run the country; started by a Corporate elite to drive down the price of labor within the market. Don't believe me? Go ask why the meat factory workers couldn't close because otherwise we'd all starve. Seems pretty IMPORTANT to me. Seems to be worth more than $10/hr to me.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

If no one delivered your packages, and no one stocked the shelves and organized the amazon warehouses, amazon literally COULD NOT operate. 

If Jeff Bezos died tomorrow, Amazon would continue on as a growing and expanding powerhouse. Don't believe me? How's Steve Jobs doing.

Sorry for the duplicate posts; rant over. It's just been so exhausting reading so many misinformed takes and opinions that are merely the regurgitation of Wall Street propagated nonsense.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[knightni]

Armed domestic militia terrorists attempted to plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in Lansing because of her COVID restrictions.

[greg775]

5 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

There are no state income taxes so not certain how much of the state economy is linked to tourism and the fiscal impact of closing the tourism and entertainment industry.  Put on the dog and pony show and then let the Federal government bail you out because you back the commander in chief.

Unlike Illinois where we will spend $77M on a make shift hospital nobody will use and worry about paying the bills later.  Illinois/Chicago need Biden to win and hope the federal government will come through on funding or the city and probably the state will most certainly have to declare bankruptcy.....the end of Chicago as a destination may not be too far off. 

I think what Florida is doing is stupid but they have a plan as poorly thought out as it may be....although I am not a fan of the state and expect nothing less. 

Excellent post. From what I've read from afar and seen from Lightfoot, does she even care as long as she's comfortable and safe? I hope and pray Chicago remains a vibrant city. Just on a personal note, my relatives are fleeing the great city of Chicago, so far for Arizona and Tennessee.

[Big Hurtin]

 

Oh

[greg775]

7 minutes ago, knightni said:

Armed domestic militia terrorists attempted to plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer in Lansing because of her COVID restrictions.

Very serious story. FBI was on top of it. This is a prime example why we need police and why we need the FBI. I read the story. WOW. You can be certain there will be a movie made about this someday. Glad the Michigan governor is safe. One of the most amazing plots I've read about. Glad we as a country snuffed it out.

Edited October 8, 2020 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

If it wasn't clear enough, the President asked for sedition, and got it.  This is exactly how the civil war in Rwanda was fought.  Radio broadcasts whipped Hutu people into a fury, terming the Tutsis as subhuman, as cockroaches, and that people should exterminate them.  Eventually it worked.

Enter Donald Trump playing from the same playbook, and couching it in COVID.  The President is inciting sedition.

[southsider2k5]

 

[pcq]

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Trump said his miracle cure Antibody cocktail, which cost more than $100,000 is something he suggested and will be available for free to everyone if re-elected. 

Alrighty then.

Covid is just a one-day flu thingy. You can even debate Joe Biden if you have it.

[pcq]

5 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Simply put, Trump is all over the place and has no credibility when it comes to this crisis. Denying its impact is not a solution. And I have not heard one bit of empathy from him regarding his staff and supporters who have contracted the virus. The same goes for his wife not that he cares about her.

Trump is having a meltdown over whether The Supremes are going to throw out all the mail-in ballots. Press Girl Barbie says the only true winner is the one leading on election night.

[pcq]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Probably something to do with the fact that 30-50% of senior citizens are scared to wait in long, out in the open, public lines with some refusing to wear masks or quite confrontational about being forced to...can guarantee he will push mail in ballots in Florida as well as a number of higher risk states with disproportionate voting numbers over age 50.

 

That's my boy. Loves America.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

There are no state income taxes so not certain how much of the state economy is linked to tourism and the fiscal impact of closing the tourism and entertainment industry.  Put on the dog and pony show and then let the Federal government bail you out because you back the commander in chief.

Unlike Illinois where we will spend $77M on a make shift hospital nobody will use and worry about paying the bills later.  Illinois/Chicago need Biden to win and hope the federal government will come through on funding or the city and probably the state will most certainly have to declare bankruptcy.....the end of Chicago as a destination may not be too far off. 

I think what Florida is doing is stupid but they have a plan as poorly thought out as it may be....although I am not a fan of the state and expect nothing less. 

I missed this the first time through. Harry, I'm not sure I've ever seen someone talk so much about fiscal policy and economics while understanding so little. 

Fictitiously speaking, do you know what it would do to the Market if the State of Illinois was forced to declare bankruptcy; the stock market and the dollar? Additionally, did you know that states literally cannot file bankruptcy?

I can tell how misinformed people are on economics and government fiscal policy when they make comments like "the state will have to file bankruptcy" which they literally can.... not. do. It's because you heard this on some ignorant talk show and think you are intelligent regurgitating it. 

Did you know that states like Illinois receive LESS federal funding than they give? For every dollar they put in, they get .89 cents back? Did you know they're one of only 14 states that do that? 

So Illinois shouldn't receive federal help do to a sales tax shortfall caused by a pandemic, but southern states should get $1.50-$2.00 in federal funds for every dollar they put into the federal pool every year for decades. HMMMM, that doesn't make much sense.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just to help Harry with this question:

 "do you know what it would do to the Market if the State of Illinois was forced to declare bankruptcy"

If Illinois was a nation, it would have the 18th highest GDP in the world; ahead of countries like Saudi Arabia. Now when you do your analysis on the catastrophic damage a state that size filing for bankruptcy would do to the economy - if it were allowed - you'll have a starting point on the debt we're talking about. 782 billion is the states GDP

Edited October 9, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[The Beast]

When looking at Illinois, one has to consider its liabilities. You can’t ignore them when doing financial analysis of the state.

Edited October 9, 2020 by The Beast

[caulfield12]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/less-educated-asian-americans-among-hardest-hit-job-losses-during-pandemic-182941175.html

 

Mitch McConnell bringing up this as option for "blue states" is one of many reasons the bankruptcy fallacy is out there in the first place, btw.   Now the argument pretty much centers on an individual city, like Chicago, filing for bankruptcy...where you have lots of arguments on both sides of the ledger, obviously.

 

Why can’t states use the federal bankruptcy system to reorganize their debt?

“There are two reasons why state governments currently cannot use the federal bankruptcy system to reorganize their debt. First, the federal bankruptcy code does not allow—and has never allowed—state governments to declare bankruptcy. Since 1937, the bankruptcy code has allowed ‘municipalities’ to declare bankruptcy. The term ‘municipality’ is defined in the bankruptcy code as a ‘political subdivision or public agency or instrumentality of a state.’ This definition is broad enough to include cities, counties, townships, school districts and public improvement districts. It also includes revenue-producing bodies that provide services which are paid for by users rather than by general taxes, such as bridge authorities, highway authorities and gas authorities. But it does not include state governments.

“The second reason stems from the U.S. Constitution. The contracts clause of the U.S. Constitution prohibits state governments from ‘impairing the obligation of contracts.’ As originally understood and enforced, this clause prohibited state legislatures from passing any laws to relieve either private debt or the state government's own debt. Beginning in 1934, however, the Supreme Court began to interpret the contracts clause more flexibly and not as an absolute bar to state debt relief laws. Even under the flexible modern approach, however, the Supreme Court in 1977 reiterated that ‘a state cannot refuse to meet its legitimate financial obligations simply because it would prefer to spend the money (on something else.)’ Thus, were Congress to amend the federal bankruptcy code to authorize states to repudiate debt, the Supreme Court would then need to decide the novel constitutional question of whether such debt repudiation would nonetheless violate the contracts clause of Article I, Section 10.”

https://www.csg.org/pubs/capitolideas/enews/issue65_3.aspx

 

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by caulfield12

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

There is literally no argument on the "for side" for Chicago to file Bankruptcy. This isn't Detroit in 2013; in which the City had been underwater for decades and had lost the majority of it's revenue streams. This is a financial hub for the nation; Chicago filing bankruptcy wouldn't have as terrible of an effect as the entire state, but given that 611 of the 782 Billion of the state GDP derives from Chicago, it would be nearly the same exact thing.

And again, this concept that a state that has given much more to the federal government than it has taken shouldn't be bailed out while it's been bailing out poorly run states for decades is comical to me. Illinois is poorly run - don't get me wrong - but it's also a poorly run state that until now has been able to not be a blood sucker on the teet of the federal dime. A poorly run state with enough revenue and financial power that it could support itself while it destroyed itself ha

Edited October 9, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Quin]

12 hours ago, The Beast said:

When looking at Illinois, one has to consider its liabilities. You can’t ignore them when doing financial analysis of the state.

One would assume some liabilities are Kentucky, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Indiana to name a few.

It'd be impossible to get into it farther without deviating from COVID entirely, but Indiana in particular has a detrimental effect on the state of Illinois.

[Dick Allen]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:04 AM, StrangeSox said:

 

I think if his doctor gives him the OK to be out of isolation, he should have to hang around and monitor him without any PPE, and no one in the WH or Trump family, Lindsay Graham and the rest of his enablers should  not be allowed to wear any PPE around him either. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Dick Allen

[NWINFan]

57 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think if his doctor gives him the OK to be out of isolation, he should have to hang around and monitor him without any PPE, and no one in the WH or Trump family, Lindsay Graham and the rest of his enablers should  not be allowed to wear any PPE around him either. 

There was the Hannity interview where Trump was coughing and gagging. Not to be surprised, the country is not getting the full picture on his health. Regardless of any medical okay, I wouldn't want to be near him, not that I would want to be near him anyway.

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

There is literally no argument on the "for side" for Chicago to file Bankruptcy. This isn't Detroit in 2013; in which the City had been underwater for decades and had lost the majority of it's revenue streams. This is a financial hub for the nation; Chicago filing bankruptcy wouldn't have as terrible of an effect as the entire state, but given that 611 of the 782 Billion of the state GDP derives from Chicago, it would be nearly the same exact thing.

And again, this concept that a state that has given much more to the federal government than it has taken shouldn't be bailed out while it's been bailing out poorly run states for decades is comical to me. Illinois is poorly run - don't get me wrong - but it's also a poorly run state that until now has been able to not be a blood sucker on the teet of the federal dime. A poorly run state with enough revenue and financial power that it could support itself while it destroyed itself ha

Because you took the time to respond in detail I will respond without going back through my post.  I was not trying to say that the extra $600 was evil just that it had some unintended consequences to some individuals that had made out better than pre-COVID.  I did not mean to paint with the broad brush as I seem to have and I apologize.  I also did not audit the conversation the way a few of you have to my post other than to explain how the additional federal benefit was a windfall to a person and precluded her from returning to work as the premise of her job did change slightly enough.  This person didn't win the lottery via the IDES but it made it harder to hire lower paid individuals.   

The IDES issue is that the management of the program is poorly administered not that the general benefits of the program is poor.

In regard to the state of Illinois and the city of Chicago, there is no guarantee that the long term fiscal impact over the last 6 months will not be catastrophic without any government assistance.  The economic boom of the last 10 years in Chicago may be gone and with it the state of Illinois.  My bankruptcy quip was a mere generalization of the current fiscal atmosphere. 

I have always found it rather amazing the amount of federal revenue states like Illinois and New York provide and the how the federal government allocates the collected revenue as well as the opportunity in these states that provide the bulk to the federal revenue stream.

 

 

 

[The Beast]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

One would assume some liabilities are Kentucky, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Indiana to name a few.

It'd be impossible to get into it farther without deviating from COVID entirely, but Indiana in particular has a detrimental effect on the state of Illinois.

I was referring more to the state’s pension obligations and lack of reform. What did you mean?