COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

[raBBit]

On 4/2/2021 at 6:56 PM, caulfield12 said:

In Texas, probably.  In Boston, with only 4500 in Fenway much less likely.

Of course, we’d need to see numbers of immunized vs. non-immunized naturally or through vaccines to draw any conclusions.

Texas hasn't had a home game. The Cubs had one at the time of  your post. The increases in cases are not related to something that happened after the increases occurred.

[StrangeSox]

24 minutes ago, raBBit said:

The point was we can't be blaming things that haven't happened yet for the increases in cases that was already occurring. 

Oh, sure. It was just funny juxtaposition. Take "people at ballgames" and "people at bars" as indicative of the general problem leading to rising cases rather than the specific or exclusive causes.

 

We have what are basically miraculously efficacious vaccines that are going into arms at the rate of three million per day now. It's deeply unfortunate that we don't have the political will or public support to sit tight for another month or two to really stamp down on community spread.

[raBBit]

6 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Oh, sure. It was just funny juxtaposition. Take "people at ballgames" and "people at bars" as indicative of the general problem leading to rising cases rather than the specific or exclusive causes.

We have what are basically miraculously efficacious vaccines that are going into arms at the rate of three million per day now. It's deeply unfortunate that we don't have the political will or public support to sit tight for another month or two to really stamp down on community spread.

You're free to stay home. I don't find it deeply unfortunate that people have the free will to do what they want. 

If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? The risk of COVID spread outside is not high. Add in mandated social distancing and masks and what's the issue? Cases as aren't important as deaths and hospitalizations. The most vulnerable are vaccinated. The curve has been flattened with hospitalizations. As someone with immunity who goes to Sox games with people who have immunity (father, uncle, girlfriend, best friend, etc.), why should I have to stay home from an event that is outside and following CDC guidelines? Do you not believe in masks and social distancing? Do you not believe in the vaccines?

Edited April 5, 2021 by raBBit

[bmags]

Have had several friends/colleagues get appointments at walgreens and cvs this week for J&J, previously had not seen it outside of dph sites. Probably good a good sign that those doses have finally started ramping up.

Also jewel updated their website to be more like cvs,bringing the availability upfront so you could get a high level view of availability. All the scheduling tools have gotten much better the last few weeks.

https://www.mhealthappointments.com/covidappt

[StrangeSox]

People freely doing what they please without concern for others is what's given us 500K+ deaths and a whole lot of suffering. What individuals choose to do impacts their communities around them. Nothing, including the vaccines, is 100% effective. Vaccines seem to help stop transmission a whole hell of a lot. Masks help. Staying far apart from other people helps. It's all probability continuums. What masks and social distancing and vaccines will do is help us get the spread under control, especially as tens of millions are still unvaccinated (and tens of millions of children won't be eligible for many months to come).

Outdoor baseball is not the most significant thing right now. It was funny juxtaposition highlighting public policies that are leading to rising spread. I don't think anyone was talking about stadiums in general aside from the tweet I found amusing.

Hospitalizations in Illinois are rising again, fwiw. We also don't fully understand the long-term impacts in both young and old people.

Edited April 5, 2021 by StrangeSox

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

You're free to stay home. I don't find it deeply unfortunate that people have the free will to do what they want. 

If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? The risk of COVID spread outside is not high. Add in mandated social distancing and masks and what's the issue? Cases aren't important as deaths and hospitalizations. The most vulnerable are vaccinated. The curve has been flattened with hospitalizations. As someone with immunity who goes to Sox games with people who have immunity (father, uncle, girlfriend, best friend, etc.), why should I have to stay home from an event that is outside and following CDC guidelines? Do you not believe in masks and social distancing? Do you not believe in the vaccines?

The problem is nobody can possibly know exactly how long the vaccines will work...how likely someone with Covid but protected from serious illness is to give it to another person outdoors, or to give it to kids who aren’t or can’t be vaccinated.

I can understand 50-75%, but why push it to the most extreme?  Neither the Astros nor the Rangers are hurting financially.

Why can’t there ever be compromises?

It just doesn’t make any sense when 2/3rd’s the country has been patient for over a year not to be careful for another 6-8 weeks.

If this type of polarization continues, it makes it more and more likely we’ll all be facing things like vaccine passports and showing proof of immunization nearly everywhere one goes in public...causing people to be forced to take sides.

[raBBit]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The problem is nobody can possibly know exactly how long the vaccines will work...how likely someone with Covid but protected from serious illness is to give it to another person outdoors, or to give it to kids who aren’t or can’t be vaccinated.

-Spread outside is very limited. With social distancing and masks it is further mitigated. Unless you don't believe in the science. I don't what to tell you there. Children have virtually no risk with COVID. I am sure you can find a news article of one kid having some strange complication but children have next to no risk with this. More risk with the flu for children. COVID's impact is its devastation to the elderly and nutrient-deficient obese people. 

I can understand 50-75%, but why push it to the most extreme?  Neither the Astros nor the Rangers are hurting financially.

-My post was in response to 20% capacity in Chicago.

Why can’t there ever be compromises?

-Why can't there ever be compromises? When will the compromises stop?

It just doesn’t make any sense when 2/3rd’s the country has been patient for over a year not to be careful for another 6-8 weeks.

-I don't know where your made up number is coming from. Where I am from, everyone has been following the protocols and trying to get vaccinated ASAP. I don't know what you're experiencing in China but in Chicagoland everybody I encounter is doing their part to get through this ASAP. We were told we needed to protect the weak and elderly until there was a vaccine. Now there is a vaccine and the elderly have been protected. Stop moving goal posts because you personally live in fear or don't want people to live their lives. 

If this type of polarization continues, it makes it more and more likely we’ll all be facing things like vaccine passports and showing proof of immunization nearly everywhere one goes in public...causing people to be forced to take sides.

-We have (albeit waning) rights in America. Businesses are allowed to operate. The Sox and the Cubs got permission from the city and state to operate their businesses. They are following the CDC guidelines. You're moving goal posts and expect everyone else to fear for the worst case scenario like you do. If you have issues with the CDC and government allowing businesses to continue you should take your issues up with them. Not the Americans who have been doing what they were asked to do until there was a vaccine.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by raBBit

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, raBBit said:

 

You say all these things implying with 100% assuredness that the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines will work against every possible variant.

Vaccines are here...we can all move on.

You’re omitting the fact that if large swathes of the developing world become overwhelmed, along with Europe due to non-cooperation between EU member states...it threatens both the US and international/business travel for the next 3-5 years until booster shots can be developed as well.  Most importantly, travel protocols that are agreed upon by all the major countries of the world.  That’s going to be incredibly complicated and political as well.

[illinilaw08]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

Have had several friends/colleagues get appointments at walgreens and cvs this week for J&J, previously had not seen it outside of dph sites. Probably good a good sign that those doses have finally started ramping up.

Also jewel updated their website to be more like cvs,bringing the availability upfront so you could get a high level view of availability. All the scheduling tools have gotten much better the last few weeks.

https://www.mhealthappointments.com/covidappt

I'm getting J&J at a CVS in Colorado this week.  Definitely good news to see the one shot option showing up with a greater degree of frequency.

[StrangeSox]

It'll probably still be a little hard to find an appointment in metro areas through the month, but it's getting easier and easier.

 

 

[Iwritecode]

18 hours ago, raBBit said:

You're free to stay home. I don't find it deeply unfortunate that people have the free will to do what they want. 

If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? The risk of COVID spread outside is not high. Add in mandated social distancing and masks and what's the issue? 

 

[SoxFan562004]

Scheduled for first dose on Friday.  Easter morning at about 6 was a bonanza, prior to that I was looking at driving to Rockford (I'm in Villa Park), but ended up with several options that morning much closer, got a Downers Walgreens.  

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

 

Texas/Arlington yesterday?

[raBBit]

3 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

 

One of Caulfield's tangents in his post questioned me about the Rangers and their 100% capacity. I never said anything about the Rangers or 100% capacity so not sure why you are showing me this. If you read my posts, I was speaking about what's happening here in Chicago with 20% capacity. I am a proponent of the wait-and-see approach. Start with 25% the first two homestands - no issues? Move up to the 35%. Next two homestands no issues? Move up to to 50%. 

 

[Iwritecode]

42 minutes ago, raBBit said:

One of Caulfield's tangents in his post questioned me about the Rangers and their 100% capacity. I never said anything about the Rangers or 100% capacity so not sure why you are showing me this. If you read my posts, I was speaking about what's happening here in Chicago with 20% capacity. I am a proponent of the wait-and-see approach. Start with 25% the first two homestands - no issues? Move up to the 35%. Next two homestands no issues? Move up to to 50%. 

 

I was responding to your comment of "If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? "

That picture is why. Zero masks and zero social distancing.

[raBBit]

13 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

I was responding to your comment of "If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? "

That picture is why. Zero masks and zero social distancing.

A full capacity wouldn't allow for social distancing. I was arguing for limited capacity. You can respond to my post directly (it's on this page) instead of trying to misrepresent what I said. 

[Iwritecode]

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

A full capacity wouldn't allow for social distancing. I was arguing for limited capacity. You can respond to my post directly (it's on this page) instead of trying to misrepresent what I said. 

I literally quoted your post. I never saw you mention that you were specifically talking about Chicago or limited capacity before I made that first post.

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, Iwritecode said:

I literally quoted your post. I never saw you mention that you were specifically talking about Chicago or limited capacity before I made that first post.

You quoted what I said in reference to the Sox and Cubs (where social distancing measures in place) and conflated it to the Rangers (where they had full capacity).

On this page I said,

"-My post was in response to 20% capacity in Chicago."

"The Sox and the Cubs got permission from the city and state to operate their businesses. They are following the CDC guidelines." 

"As someone with immunity who goes to Sox games with people who have immunity (father, uncle, girlfriend, best friend, etc.), why should I have to stay home from an event that is outside and following CDC guidelines?"

I never addressed the Rangers outside of pointing to the fact that they hadn't had a home game yet (at the time of that post). I specifically clarified prior to you posting on this page that what I was saying was in response to Chicago and the Sox (Cubs too) and not the Rangers. I don't know why you're trying to twist what I said - I am going to assume it is because you are a proponent of perpetual COVID style life and needed to misrepresent what I said to poke holes and validate your thoughts. No one who disagrees with crowds needs to attend these games... 

[Iwritecode]

20 minutes ago, raBBit said:

You quoted what I said in reference to the Sox and Cubs (where social distancing measures in place) and conflated it to the Rangers (where they had full capacity).

On this page I said,

"-My post was in response to 20% capacity in Chicago."

"The Sox and the Cubs got permission from the city and state to operate their businesses. They are following the CDC guidelines." 

"As someone with immunity who goes to Sox games with people who have immunity (father, uncle, girlfriend, best friend, etc.), why should I have to stay home from an event that is outside and following CDC guidelines?"

I never addressed the Rangers outside of pointing to the fact that they hadn't had a home game yet (at the time of that post). I specifically clarified prior to you posting on this page that what I was saying was in response to Chicago and the Sox (Cubs too) and not the Rangers. I don't know why you're trying to twist what I said - I am going to assume it is because you are a proponent of perpetual COVID style life and needed to misrepresent what I said to poke holes and validate your thoughts. No one who disagrees with crowds needs to attend these games... 

I'm not trying to twist anything.  I read something you posted and responded. I only glanced at your other post because i couldn't tell which were your comments and which were the ones you were responding to. So I guess I didn't fully understand that you were specifically talking about a single ballpark in a single city when you said "outside baseball games".

I was just pointing out a time/place where we would be worried about them. In a city that allows full capacity at their baseball games with zero restrictions. 

Apparently they aren't doing that in the Chicago stadiums so that's good.

[raBBit]

Just now, Iwritecode said:

I'm not trying to twist anything.  I read something you posted and responded. I only glanced at your other post because i couldn't tell which were your comments and which were the ones you were responding to. So I guess I didn't fully understand that you were specifically talking about a single ballpark in a single city when you said "outside baseball games".

I was just pointing out a time/place where we would be worried about them. In a city that allows full capacity at their baseball games with zero restrictions. 

Apparently they aren't doing that in the Chicago stadiums so that's good.

No worries. The way I responded to caulfield's post could be confusing to others I get so that's on me. I just don't want to be put in a position where opinions I didn't make are being attribute to me. Chicago is like 22% or so for the first homestand. Take with a grain of salt, but I heard if there are no issues with the Sox/Cubs first homestands there will be 30% capacity at the second homestand. 

[bmags]

4 hours ago, SoxFan562004 said:

Scheduled for first dose on Friday.  Easter morning at about 6 was a bonanza, prior to that I was looking at driving to Rockford (I'm in Villa Park), but ended up with several options that morning much closer, got a Downers Walgreens.  

not that it's a big deal, but walgreen's instructions tell you to print out and fill out a form, but for me and others I've talked to they end up having to give you one they print out when you are there anyway so there is no need. Just show up 15 min early and expect some paperwork.

[he gone.]

On 4/5/2021 at 2:05 PM, raBBit said:

You're free to stay home. I don't find it deeply unfortunate that people have the free will to do what they want. 

If masks and socially distancing work, why are you worried about outside baseball games? The risk of COVID spread outside is not high. Add in mandated social distancing and masks and what's the issue? Cases as aren't important as deaths and hospitalizations. The most vulnerable are vaccinated. The curve has been flattened with hospitalizations. As someone with immunity who goes to Sox games with people who have immunity (father, uncle, girlfriend, best friend, etc.), why should I have to stay home from an event that is outside and following CDC guidelines? Do you not believe in masks and social distancing? Do you not believe in the vaccines?

Amen. 

I don't really read this thread very much to keep my sanity ... but blindly following orders is wild to me. Free will of mind and spirit along with a free market. Rangers and Rangers fans can do what they want. So can every other team. (kind of - still controlled by government). Don't the rangers have socially distanced sections as well? So you're not forced to sit in an area where not comfortable -- that's a choice. Free market will win when given a chance... I was skeptical what the crowd would look like yesterday in Texas ... but from what I can tell, at least for a home opener people want to get back out. If by week 3 crowds are sparse? I'm sure the Rangers will reverse course. 

 

Overall though the mask thing has already been debunked (and don't worry - this is CONTROVERSIAL ... in the view that no matter what side you are on you've chosen to defend that side with no open mind) -- they're saying to wear one post vaccine because they want to make sure the people without the vaccine have to continue wear theirs. If they say people who have the vaccine don't have to wear a mask then those without the vaccine (or at least the % of those who don't want to comply) will not wear a mask. So they make up a narrative to keep the control. Their intentions are good, but at the same time it's a lie. (here's the shocker to those who wan to get mad at this post and take .... i agree with wearing the masks and lying to the public for another 30-60 days)  Just like when they lied saying don't wear masks, that they're not effective at the outset. They knew they were lying, but they thought they were lying for a good cause - to be able to have front line workers able to have a mask. 

I'm in line with rabbit here... the number of cases are down, more importantly, the number of serious cases are way down. The people who are most hit by this thing are now okay. If you're a healthy, normal, 20-45 year old it's going to be anywhere from a mild to bad flu. Will always be outliers but not enough to keep this world down. At a certain point you have to make a decision ... and i think were at the point where the pendulum has shifted. Upside v. downside. you have to open at some point. 

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Amen. 

I don't really read this thread very much to keep my sanity ... but blindly following orders is wild to me. Free will of mind and spirit along with a free market. Rangers and Rangers fans can do what they want. So can every other team. (kind of - still controlled by government). Don't the rangers have socially distanced sections as well? So you're not forced to sit in an area where not comfortable -- that's a choice. Free market will win when given a chance... I was skeptical what the crowd would look like yesterday in Texas ... but from what I can tell, at least for a home opener people want to get back out. If by week 3 crowds are sparse? I'm sure the Rangers will reverse course. 

 

Overall though the mask thing has already been debunked (and don't worry - this is CONTROVERSIAL ... in the view that no matter what side you are on you've chosen to defend that side with no open mind) -- they're saying to wear one post vaccine because they want to make sure the people without the vaccine have to continue wear theirs. If they say people who have the vaccine don't have to wear a mask then those without the vaccine (or at least the % of those who don't want to comply) will not wear a mask. So they make up a narrative to keep the control. Their intentions are good, but at the same time it's a lie. (here's the shocker to those who wan to get mad at this post and take .... i agree with wearing the masks and lying to the public for another 30-60 days)  Just like when they lied saying don't wear masks, that they're not effective at the outset. They knew they were lying, but they thought they were lying for a good cause - to be able to have front line workers able to have a mask. 

I'm in line with rabbit here... the number of cases are down, more importantly, the number of serious cases are way down. The people who are most hit by this thing are now okay. If you're a healthy, normal, 20-45 year old it's going to be anywhere from a mild to bad flu. Will always be outliers but not enough to keep this world down. At a certain point you have to make a decision ... and i think were at the point where the pendulum has shifted. Upside v. downside. you have to open at some point. 

Those in Michigan right now might not agree...especially about it not impacting younger people.

[Texsox]

I’m wondering if every location should be treated the same? I think I might tolerate a different standard for essential businesses like grocery stores and pharmacies compared to a baseball stadium. It feels like they should be treated differently.

[The Beast]

9 hours ago, raBBit said:

One of Caulfield's tangents in his post questioned me about the Rangers and their 100% capacity. I never said anything about the Rangers or 100% capacity so not sure why you are showing me this. If you read my posts, I was speaking about what's happening here in Chicago with 20% capacity. I am a proponent of the wait-and-see approach. Start with 25% the first two homestands - no issues? Move up to the 35%. Next two homestands no issues? Move up to to 50%. 

 

Recognizing that you have already said you were referring to Chicago’s capacity, what do you think about the Texas Rangers stadium’s capacity and their lack of masks?

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

I’m wondering if every location should be treated the same? I think I might tolerate a different standard for essential businesses like grocery stores and pharmacies compared to a baseball stadium. It feels like they should be treated differently.

How could we feasibly treat things differently? As BrianAnderson said, people who are vaccinated not wearing masks will lead to people not vaccinated or those who refuse to comply to not wear masks. I am for compromise but I just can’t see people being truthful enough to comply. I wish this wasn’t a red versus blue issue but it seems to be.