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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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Newly added to IL Phase 3:

--Restaurant OUTDOOR seating with distancing and other rules

--Tennis not only outdoors, but now also INDOORS, again with certain precautions in place

--ALL state parks will open, camping and related outdoor activities including boating, OK for groups up to 10 (was only some parks before)

--Golfing moves up to foursomes

All good news, but the real test will be how well businesses and (probably more so) individuals follow the new rules. That will be the crux. The more selfish people who bizarrely think masks and distancing are somehow trampling their rights (they aren't), the more people will die, and then we go backwards again.

Really just one adjustment left that I really want them to make for Phase 3: they need to answer for child care. You just can't reasonably open nearly all businesses but leave child care to "limited", not to mention no one knows what "limited" means yet. Supposedly we will get guidance on that this week from JB et al, which paired with the CDC Details released a couple days ago (finally), should give camps and day cares the info they need to make their plans.

 

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3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The only thing that lost momentum was patience 

IMO it's because of the attitudes of these government officials. If they'd work with us instead of being so mean and dictatorial .... the Chicago mayor haircut thing is one example. The meanness at press conference by the Kansas gov. and Michigan gov and Calif. gov. Now the spike consequences will be great. After two months of this, Americans were going to rebel when spoken down to as they were so often.

It's like a good leader at work. These bosses who are loudmouthed jerks ... nobody wants to produce for them and will do the bare minimum to not get fired or to suck up to them. The leadership in this has been appalling. Work together; don't throw people in jail for putting food on their table and making sure their kids don't starve.

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

And to top it off, the federal government and many state governments have been so untrustworthy as to safety, even if this actually disappeared tomorrow, I wouldn't trust them to be telling the truth and still wouldn't change my behaviors back to the old days.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/patchwork-pandemic-states-reopening-inequalities/611866/

Quote

 The bigger risk, she says, is that demoralizing bouts of shutdowns and reopenings will nix any prospect of economic recovery. “You only get to say Go out, trust me once,” she says. “They won’t believe you the second time.”

 

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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

IMO it's because of the attitudes of these government officials. If they'd work with us instead of being so mean and dictatorial .... the Chicago mayor haircut thing is one example. The meanness at press conference by the Kansas gov. and Michigan gov and Calif. gov. Now the spike consequences will be great. After two months of this, Americans were going to rebel when spoken down to as they were so often.

It's like a good leader at work. These bosses who are loudmouthed jerks ... nobody wants to produce for them and will do the bare minimum to not get fired or to suck up to them. The leadership in this has been appalling. Work together; don't throw people in jail for putting food on their table and making sure their kids don't starve.

Thanks Trump.

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1 hour ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Newly added to IL Phase 3:

--Restaurant OUTDOOR seating with distancing and other rules

--Tennis not only outdoors, but now also INDOORS, again with certain precautions in place

--ALL state parks will open, camping and related outdoor activities including boating, OK for groups up to 10 (was only some parks before)

--Golfing moves up to foursomes

All good news, but the real test will be how well businesses and (probably more so) individuals follow the new rules. That will be the crux. The more selfish people who bizarrely think masks and distancing are somehow trampling their rights (they aren't), the more people will die, and then we go backwards again.

Really just one adjustment left that I really want them to make for Phase 3: they need to answer for child care. You just can't reasonably open nearly all businesses but leave child care to "limited", not to mention no one knows what "limited" means yet. Supposedly we will get guidance on that this week from JB et al, which paired with the CDC Details released a couple days ago (finally), should give camps and day cares the info they need to make their plans.

 

Hope these changes are based on medical expertise and not economic or political pressure

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2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

I probably won't eat in a restaurant until we hit phase 5 (treatment or vaccine or minimal cases in state). Unfortunately probably the same for travel.

It doesn’t help that American and United are blatantly lying about not selling middle seats.

Many of the flights that are going out, people are ending up stuffed together like sardines.

Only Delta seems to be following the guidelines (that are mere suggestions and not enforced, or enforceable, by TSA or FAA) of only 60% capacity in cabins, 50% in first class, no middle seats sold, no seats sold in bulkhead areas or in close proximity to flight attendant jump seats.

In the beginning, they were brazenly attempting to monetize your health (fears) by encouraging passengers to pay various fees not to have someone sitting next to you (let’s say, $47 on a typical domestic flight) but that was quickly seized upon as being in terrible taste and junked.

 

Trump on H1N1/Obama response 

In 2009, then-businessman Trump said, "I think it's fine. It's the flu. It's the flu," noting that mankind has had epidemics and flus before. 

"It's going to be handled. It's going to come. It's going to be bad. And maybe it will be worse than the normal flu seasons. And it's going to go away. I think it is being handled fine. I think the words are right."

"But, you know, you're letting people in from countries that have bigger doses of it, and everybody's coming into the country, and the Mexicans aren't stopped and nobody's stopped," before immediately noting, "I'm not saying they should be stopped."

"It's called the flu. Have you had the flu many times, Neil (Cavuto)? Probably. You know, we all have."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/politics/obama-trump-swine-flu/index.html

 

Edited by caulfield12

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Tedros Adhanom-Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, on Wednesday said that more cases had been reported to the agency in the last 24 hours than any time since the novel coronavirus outbreak began. 

“We still have a long way to go in this pandemic,” Tedros said at a briefing in Geneva. “In the last 24 hours, there have been 106,000 cases reported to WHO – the most in a single day since the outbreak began. Almost two-thirds of these cases were reported in just four countries.”

Those four countries, WHO infectious disease epidemiologist Maria Van Kerkhove confirmed to CNN in an email, are: the United States, Russia, Brazil and India.

 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/korean-soccer-team-hit-with-record-fine-over-placing-sex-dolls-in-stands-195721079.html

This might be the funniest thing of the week.... $80,000+ fine?   I guess all sense of humor is going out of the world, since they’re not anything close to provocative, at least compared to real life fashions in K-pop and nighttime dramas.  Ozzie/Swisher-Gate...this is not.

Edited by caulfield12

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4 hours ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

Newly added to IL Phase 3:

--Restaurant OUTDOOR seating with distancing and other rules

--Tennis not only outdoors, but now also INDOORS, again with certain precautions in place

--ALL state parks will open, camping and related outdoor activities including boating, OK for groups up to 10 (was only some parks before)

--Golfing moves up to foursomes

All good news, but the real test will be how well businesses and (probably more so) individuals follow the new rules. That will be the crux. The more selfish people who bizarrely think masks and distancing are somehow trampling their rights (they aren't), the more people will die, and then we go backwards again.

Really just one adjustment left that I really want them to make for Phase 3: they need to answer for child care. You just can't reasonably open nearly all businesses but leave child care to "limited", not to mention no one knows what "limited" means yet. Supposedly we will get guidance on that this week from JB et al, which paired with the CDC Details released a couple days ago (finally), should give camps and day cares the info they need to make their plans.

 

From what we know now, I'd be particularly worried about the Indoor Tennis. Just-published paper, 50 minute dance session twice a week, basically everyone in the session wound up infected.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-0633_article

Quote

During 24 days in Cheonan, South Korea, 112 persons were infected with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 associated with fitness dance classes at 12 sports facilities. Intense physical exercise in densely populated sports facilities could increase risk for infection. Vigorous exercise in confined spaces should be minimized during outbreaks.

....
Characteristics that might have led to transmission from the instructors in Cheonan include large class sizes, small spaces, and intensity of the workouts. The moist, warm atmosphere in a sports facility coupled with turbulent air flow generated by intense physical exercise can cause more dense transmission of isolated droplets (6,7).

 

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55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

From what we know now, I'd be particularly worried about the Indoor Tennis. Just-published paper, 50 minute dance session twice a week, basically everyone in the session wound up infected.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-0633_article

 

They’re going to have to be really careful about studying air conditioning impacts...especially centralized systems...as many are under the assumption 100 degree temps in south Texas could/should be “killing off” the disease when it’s ultimately leading to greater spread indoors.

Wuhan is extremely hot and humid from late May through the first two weeks of Sept.   Buses, subways, restaurants, cinemas, gyms...nobody can survive this time of the year without air conditioning.    Florida, Georgia, South Carolina...heck, most of the Southeast, has that similar weather pattern in the summer months, stretching from KC/StL to Balt/DC and then everything across the south from Florida over to east Texas.
 

We’ve already seen issues with airplanes...and there was also that well-publicized case in southern China where a restaurant fan (this was at least two months ago) spread it from 1 to 6-7 others in the same concentrated seating space.

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From what I read, today sounded like a bad day regarding the virus. And it's not even virus season. Scary what could take place this winter.

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11 hours ago, greg775 said:

IMO it's because of the attitudes of these government officials. If they'd work with us instead of being so mean and dictatorial .... the Chicago mayor haircut thing is one example. The meanness at press conference by the Kansas gov. and Michigan gov and Calif. gov. Now the spike consequences will be great. After two months of this, Americans were going to rebel when spoken down to as they were so often.

It's like a good leader at work. These bosses who are loudmouthed jerks ... nobody wants to produce for them and will do the bare minimum to not get fired or to suck up to them. The leadership in this has been appalling. Work together; don't throw people in jail for putting food on their table and making sure their kids don't starve.

Could you possibly imagine if "please wear a mask so that you don't die" wasn't interpreted as a condescending statement.   Such dictators

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At more than 5 million cases, the virus has infected more people in under six months than the annual total of severe flu cases, which the World Health Organization estimates is around 3 million to 5 million globally.

The pandemic has claimed over 326,000 lives, though the true number is thought to be higher as testing is still limited and many countries do not include fatalities outside of hospitals. Over half of the total fatalities have been recorded in Europe.
source:  Reuters

 

So we’re talking 456,400 - 521,600 on a global level, most realistically....and with Brazil copying the Trump Doctrine politically and temperamentally, it means South America will soon be overrun, then Central America, Mexico, and we can go back to June, 2015, and protecting from barbarian hordes invading from the south/border security as a campaign issue.
 

Attacking the CDC, WHO, China, Obama, Joe Scarborough, Nancy Pelosi.  Check.

Spending $600 million on machines that were supposed to clean/disinfect masks 20 times for reuse when the actual number has turned out to be 3-4 times, making not simply procuring the masks in the first place...well, it is what it is.  Check.  Even at $1.50 instead of the pre-virus cost of 0.58, that would be 400,000,000 N95 masks, more than enough for every American, with 70,000,000 left over.

Another $354 million contract to a Virginia company to create a national drug stockpile despite their having no experience doing so.  Check.   What’s a $100 billion anyway, it’s not even Bezos’ net worth, even after divorce.

Navy Rear Adm. John Polowczyk is just going around telling everyone “he has a blank check from the Trump administration.”

No oversight of Treasury/Mnuchin programs for medium and large companies.

No oversight of Jared Kushner.

No oversight with every IG who crosses Trump Saturday Night Specialed. 

 

Edited by caulfield12
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5 hours ago, greg775 said:

From what I read, today sounded like a bad day regarding the virus. And it's not even virus season. Scary what could take place this winter.

Civil War.

Plagues of locusts.

All of The Purge movies...combined.

Worse than the Left Behind series.

Worse than Bleeding Kansas.

More dictatorial/tyrannical than Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Mao and Pol Pot.

Worse than Ditka vs. a hurricane.

Worse than MJ vs. The Bad Boys combining forces with Horace Grant and Will Perdue.

Worse than Phil vs. Jerry Krause.

Worse than Dolan vs. NYC.

Bird Box mixed with Tiger King, narrated by a hallucinogenic-inflamed Henry Rollins.

100x worse than Marshawn Lynch’s acting in Westworld S3.

 

 

Edited by caulfield12

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Outside of a few countries, it looks like the worldwide plan to let everyone contract the virus but slower is still right on schedule since the start.  Still have people arguing about all kinds of different trees while the forest is right there staring them in the face. 

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2 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Outside of a few countries, it looks like the worldwide plan to let everyone contract the virus but slower is still right on schedule since the start.  Still have people arguing about all kinds of different trees while the forest is right there staring them in the face. 

It's like you keep saying this, everyone keeps proving you wrong, and you just keep saying it.  Wait no that's actually happening

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's like you keep saying this, everyone keeps proving you wrong, and you just keep saying it.  Wait no that's actually happening

Well, what’s wrong with 1,235,520 deaths AND counting?    It’s only 13x worse than our current level.   Barely twice as much as the Civil War...and it’s only 0.003766 of the US population, that’s not even 1/2 of 1%!!!

That's where we would currently be following Plan Sweden.   And it still gives Trump wiggle room to claim that UK “experts” (Niall Ferguson at Imperial College) originally predicted 2.2-2.4 million deaths with no social distancing.   He’s saving 1+ million lives.   Amazing!   Nobel Prize worthy, if the MSM didn’t hate America and want to stay locked down forever to deny Trump re-election.

 

Oregon GOP nominee Jo Rae Perkins speaks about 'Q' like he or she is a real person. 

'Q is most likely military intelligence and they've been out there watching what's been going on with our country for decades and they are partnered with President Trump to stop the corruption and to save our republic.' 

Edited by caulfield12

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13 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Hope these changes are based on medical expertise and not economic or political pressure

Oh I am 100% sure it is both. Illinois, so far, has shown that we can keep the curve bent down far enough to give us some nice headroom underneath the capacity lines of the health care system. Which is the whole idea. So I am sure that JB was likely looking for ways to ease more things for a restless public, and asked his experts what the least harmful ways to do that might be. Or something like that.

 

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

From what we know now, I'd be particularly worried about the Indoor Tennis. Just-published paper, 50 minute dance session twice a week, basically everyone in the session wound up infected.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/8/20-0633_article

 

I was thinking that about indoor tennis too. I've seen a few articles recently about how high-intensity exercise makes someone a particularly profound spreader. But it then occurred to me, this is why we see tennis on the list (along with the already-existing outdoor activities with spacing), but not most other gym or indoor facility sports. Think about the inside of a tennis club. These are huge, cavernous spaces, with players very far apart. Compared to most other indoor sports it is much lower risk, I would think.

 

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2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It's like you keep saying this, everyone keeps proving you wrong, and you just keep saying it.  Wait no that's actually happening

The plan isn’t to let everyone eventually get the virus?  Sure seems that way.  🤔

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1 minute ago, Jerksticks said:

The plan isn’t to let everyone eventually get the virus?  Sure seems that way.  🤔

Yes, we know you feel that way.  Everyone has it.  You keep saying it

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I'm trying to figure out if ultimate, galaxy brain greg is that because covid will kill everyone, it is dictatorial to make us wear a mask or try and shelter us in our final days.

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22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Yes, we know you feel that way.  Everyone has it.  You keep saying it

While true, I DO think waaaay more people have it than reported by many magnitudes, let’s not move the goal posts.  
 

I’m saying the plan around the world seems to be “let everyone get the virus”. Outside of a few countries, this seems to be the case, no?  
 

 

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16 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Never could have seen this coming

 

But then there is this too...

https://news.yahoo.com/as-more-states-reopen-georgia-defies-predictions-of-coronavirus-resurgence-whats-the-lesson-for-the-rest-of-the-country-164734815.html

 

Which certainly seems to be good news.  Maybe if people continue being cautious and smart, some things can start to open up a bit.  Especially with some warmer weather coming.  

Edited by turnin' two

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34 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

While true, I DO think waaaay more people have it than reported by many magnitudes, let’s not move the goal posts.  
 

I’m saying the plan around the world seems to be “let everyone get the virus”. Outside of a few countries, this seems to be the case, no?  
 

 

Even some of the deeper dives into broad surveys have ended up with pretty low numbers IU just did a very random survey and came up with a 2.8% infection rate in Indiana total.  We need to get to about 70% to have a decent herd immunity.

 

https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/05/iupui/releases/13-preliminary-findings-impact-covid-19-indiana-coronavirus.html

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