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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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We still have 3 OR 4 ninety minute classes going everyday for IBDP1, AP1 and AS (A-Levels) classes that are transitioning from juniors to seniors.

They've been online from January 10th and will finish on July 10th, then resume school on August 24th (theoretically, back in school.)

6th graders even have classes Monday through Saturday ending on July 20th.

In fact, this week we're working on essays addressing this very topic for the Common Application.

 

Below is the question applicants will see:

Community disruptions such as COVID-19 and natural disasters can have deep and long-lasting impacts. If you need it, this space is yours to describe those impacts. Colleges care about the effects on your health and well-being, safety, family circumstances, future plans, and education, including access to reliable technology and quiet study spaces.

  • Do you wish to share anything on this topic? Y/N
  • Please use this space to describe how these events have impacted you.

The question will be optional and will appear in the Additional Information section of the application.The response length will be limited to 250 words.

The question will be accompanied by a more detailed FAQ to help students consider the kinds of impacts they may wish to report, including illness and loss, housing and employment disruptions, and shifting family obligations.

 

Trump, who described his remark as "semi-tongue in cheek," continued to argue that the problem in the United States is not that the virus is so widespread, but that testing keeps discovering how deeply it has penetrated in the community.

"Instead of 25 million tests, let's say we did 10 million tests, we'd look like we were doing much better because we'd have far fewer cases. You understand that. I wouldn't do that, but I will say this: we do so much more than other countries it makes us in a way look bad but actually we're doing the right thing," Trump said.

www.cnn.com

Edited by caulfield12

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illinois had one of those days that essentially nothing changed but because less people got tested it feels like a nice drop.

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8 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

They are in high school.  They can wear masks.  The online school was a fucking joke.  Before this started  my kids were high honors students.  The online classroom is so fucking easy. They put in about 45 minutes of work a day with their "online" class. They are getting cheated by this.  Most of kids in their class cheat.  Its dumb to think you can even remotely have the same level of instruction online.  This nonsense of not having in person classes until a cure comes.  Good luck with that.  

There isn't really a good answer in what to do here.

Online learning is a poor substitute, but letting a pandemic spread ain't so great either.

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10 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Hmm

 

"Well, only the bottom floor of the house is on fire.  If the fire spreads to the second floor we may have to call the fire department."

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As far as opening schools in the fall, high schools and colleges would be the easiest.  Aside from the number of students, which they can work around, there would be less worry about lack of social distancing and not wearing masks.  Elementary schools could be more difficult because of the ages of the kids.  My wife works in a preschool, and she just doesn't see how they'll be able to maintain social distancing, and it would be nearly impossible to ensure the kids keep masks on.

Then there are the questions about high school sports, music ensembles, and marching bands.  I suppose we'll find out what plans the state has soon enough.

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WI released their school reopening plan:

https://fox6now.com/2020/06/22/wisconsin-department-of-public-instruction-releases-guidelines-for-reopening-schools-this-fall/

These are some example plans schools could adopt.

Four-Day Week

  • Each student level (elementary, middle, and high school) reports to school, outdoor learning spaces, or community-based organizations four full days a week. Schools are closed on the fifth day to allow for deep-cleaning.
  • Students are provided with virtual learning materials—digital, analog, or a combination of the two formats—to support learning on those days when they do not report to school for in-person learning.
  • All English learner, special education, gifted and talented, and resource teachers work with small groups of students to reduce the student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer in each learning environment. Learning in outdoor spaces or partnerships with community-based organizations may be needed to keep student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer.
  • One day per week is used for teacher planning and professional learning. On this day, students do not report to school but virtual learning continues.

Two-Day Rotation

  • All students report to school, outdoor learning spaces, or community-based organizations two full days per week (Monday/Tuesday or Thursday/Friday).
  • Students are provided with virtual learning materials—digital, analog, or a combination of the two formats— to support learning on those days when they do not report to school for in-person learning.
  • All English learner, special education, gifted and talented, and resource teachers work with small groups ofstudents to reduce the student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer in each learning environment. Learning in outdoor spaces or partnerships with community-based organizations may be needed to keep student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer.
  • One day per week is used for teacher planning and professional learning. On this day, students do not report to school but virtual learning continues.

A/B Week Rotation

  • Half of the student population reports to school, outdoor learning spaces, or community-based organizations four full days per week for in-person learning while the other half of the school population participates in virtual learning at home. The two student groups alternate between in-person and virtual learning weekly. All grade bands are included.
  • Students are provided with virtual learning materials—digital, analog, or a combination of the two formats—to support learning on those days when they do not report to school for in-person learning.
  • All English learner, special education, gifted and talented, and resource teachers work with small groups of students to reduce the student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer in each learning environment. Learning in outdoor spaces or partnerships with community-based organizations may be needed to keep student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer.
  • One day per week is used for teacher planning and professional learning. Students do not report to school on these days but continue learning independently.

Elementary Face-to-Face and Secondary Virtual Learning

  • Elementary students start back to school first, before other levels.
  • Elementary students attend four full days per week and are distributed across multiple sites (e.g., elementary and middle school buildings) to reduce the student-teacher ratio in accordance with physical distancing recommendations.
  • Secondary students continue to engage in virtual learning.
  • Students are provided with virtual learning materials—digital, analog, or a combination of the two formats—to support learning on those days when they do not report to school for in-person learning.
  • All English learner, special education, gifted and talented, and resource teachers work with small groups of students to reduce the student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer in each learning environment. Learning in outdoor spaces or partnerships with community-based organizations may be needed to keep student-teacher ratios to 10/1 or fewer.
  • One day per week is used for teacher planning and professional learning. Students do not report to school on these days but continue learning independently.

 

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If I was a Republican delegate, I would not be heading to the national convention. Trump is the nominee so that issue was decided and decided a long time ago. The platform is not going to change, so there is no work there, either. Anyone can watch his acceptance speech on TV. Going to a hot spot like Florida wouldn't appeal to me, either. I would stay away and keep away. I don't know what the Democrats have exactly decided, but I wouldn't go there, either. Biden is the nominee, so what is the point at a time like this?

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Every problem in the CDC begins and ends with the very politicized appointment of Dr. Robert Redfield.

Dr. Anne Schuchat or even Dr. Nancy Messonier (whose brother is former Attorney General Rod Rosenstein) would be better choices, especially Dr. Schuchat.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/26/trump-backers-coronavirus-conspiracy-117781

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1 minute ago, NWINFan said:

If I was a Republican delegate, I would not be heading to the national convention. Trump is the nominee so that issue was decided and decided a long time ago. The platform is not going to change, so there is no work there, either. Anyone can watch his acceptance speech on TV. Going to a hot spot like Florida wouldn't appeal to me, either. I would stay away and keep away. I don't know what the Democrats have exactly decided, but I wouldn't go there, either. Biden is the nominee, so what is the point at a time like this?

Right, and the VP pick will come out (well) before the convention in all likelihood. 

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2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

There isn't really a good answer in what to do here.

 Online learning is a poor substitute, but letting a pandemic spread ain't so great either.

They can wear masks.  They are in high school.  It can be made to be mandatory.  

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10 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

They can wear masks.  They are in high school.  It can be made to be mandatory.  

The bigger problem isn't making it mandatory or not, it is supply and high school kids.

#1- How you do you make sure each kid in a school system has enough masks to get them through.  Is it one?  Is is 5 to get them through a week?

#2-How do kids get masks?  Are they responsible?  Does the school system have to find and procure them?

#3-What happens if masks break, become contaminated etc?  Are they are or the schools responsible for replacements?

#4-What happens if a kid refuses to wear one?    Kick them out of class?  Put all of the non-mask wearers in one room to separate them from those who are wearing?  Do you suspend them?  If you suspend them, the school system looks bad because the state tracks suspension numbers and counts it against school systems in their grading.

 

There is a lot to unpack here when you say "mandatory".

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15 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

They can wear masks.  They are in high school.  It can be made to be mandatory.  

It still represents increased exposure risk for everyone, though.

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Also what do you do with the special needs kids that are highly unlikely to wear a mask or keep it on all day?

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The bigger problem isn't making it mandatory or not, it is supply and high school kids.

 #1- How you do you make sure each kid in a school system has enough masks to get them through.  Is it one?  Is is 5 to get them through a week?

#2-How do kids get masks?  Are they responsible?  Does the school system have to find and procure them?

#3-What happens if masks break, become contaminated etc?  Are they are or the schools responsible for replacements?

#4-What happens if a kid refuses to wear one?    Kick them out of class?  Put all of the non-mask wearers in one room to separate them from those who are wearing?  Do you suspend them?  If you suspend them, the school system looks bad because the state tracks suspension numbers and counts it against school systems in their grading.

 

There is a lot to unpack here when you say "mandatory".

They can wear cloth based masks, a tee shirt, or bandanna as a barrier.  I don't see N95 masks everywhere outside these days.  I see a mix of everything including shirts, bandannas, home made masks. To gain entrance to private institutions I have to wear a mask.   Part of being in the class is you have to wear the mask.  Yes you kick the kid out of class if he refuses.  I would rather suspend some kids and have a normal education than to take 2 to 3 years off a kids schooling because you are waiting for a cure that is not a guarantee to be here anytime soon.    

 

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1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

It still represents increased exposure risk for everyone, though.

So does going to the park, to the grocery store, or hanging out with their friends.  if you think that teenagers are sitting in their homes isolated while this is all going on I have some land to sell you.  

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4 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

So does going to the park, to the grocery store, or hanging out with their friends.  if you think that teenagers are sitting in their homes isolated while this is all going on I have some land to sell you.  

Sure, everything includes some level of risk. Putting over a thousand people into a building at the same time for hours with lots of talking seems to rank higher on the risk chart than anything outdoors or going to the grocery store. The number of secondary contacts in your chain will be so much larger. I'm not sure how well defined the risk of normal in-school education is at this point.

 

However, if we actually get high mask compliance, even packed public transit can be safe, apparently

 

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10 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Sure, everything includes some level of risk. Putting over a thousand people into a building at the same time for hours with lots of talking seems to rank higher on the risk chart than anything outdoors or going to the grocery store. The number of secondary contacts in your chain will be so much larger. I'm not sure how well defined the risk of normal in-school education is at this point.

 

However, if we actually get high mask compliance, even packed public transit can be safe, apparently

 

And while it will cause kid casualties, the worst is going to be the parents and grandparents that they bring this home to.

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5 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Sure, everything includes some level of risk. Putting over a thousand people into a building at the same time for hours with lots of talking seems to rank higher on the risk chart than anything outdoors or going to the grocery store. The number of secondary contacts in your chain will be so much larger. I'm not sure how well defined the risk of normal in-school education is at this point.

  

However, if we actually get high mask compliance, even packed public transit can be safe, apparently



 

The last semester of education was a joke.  They might as well not have school if this is what its going to be.  My son is taking a bunch of AP classes including Calc, Physics and Robotics.  That will be nearly useless if its a zoom once every few days with a bunch of home work is the schedule just like last semester.  The pass/fail shit is stupid as well because it doesnt help those trying to get academic scholarships when their GPA and all the hard work they have put in gets neutered by randomness.    High School is a sprint to college.  At this point if they close down school again this fall.  I will just pick up and move to somewhere where my kids can actually get an education.  Not glorified babysitting service where the teacher gets to check in every few days.   They are not ready nor will they be for a online curriculum.  

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And while it will cause kid casualties, the worst is going to be the parents and grandparents that they bring this home to.

Are these kids staying at home, sheltering in place.  They are not interacting right now in the summer in their neighborhoods.  The kids are all out all over the place none of them wearing masks unless they have to go inside of a store.  

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We aren't going to eliminate the virus in the US (at least not for years anyway). The goal was, is and still should be, to keep the country safe enough that the medical systems are not overwhelmed. And by keeping it tamped down to that level you also save a bunch of lives and buy time for better treatments and eventually a vaccine.

Illinois has done this, and done it really well. In fact I actually feel some pride when I see how well our state has done compared to others. And what that means is, we are safe enough for this Phase 4 of reopening - and the schools 100% need to open with it. You can't do one without the other for a whole host of reasons. I want to see the schools opened up fully in the fall.

Now, obviously if some massive spike occurs, and ICU beds and ventilators go near maxed out and infection rates are out of control, then you go back a step. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it could. And in that case, you go back a step on ALL of it - if you close the schools, you close down all non-essential services too.

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1 hour ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

We aren't going to eliminate the virus in the US (at least not for years anyway). The goal was, is and still should be, to keep the country safe enough that the medical systems are not overwhelmed. And by keeping it tamped down to that level you also save a bunch of lives and buy time for better treatments and eventually a vaccine.

Illinois has done this, and done it really well. In fact I actually feel some pride when I see how well our state has done compared to others. And what that means is, we are safe enough for this Phase 4 of reopening - and the schools 100% need to open with it. You can't do one without the other for a whole host of reasons. I want to see the schools opened up fully in the fall.

Now, obviously if some massive spike occurs, and ICU beds and ventilators go near maxed out and infection rates are out of control, then you go back a step. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it could. And in that case, you go back a step on ALL of it - if you close the schools, you close down all non-essential services too.

I said this 2 months and 2 days ago, probably in this thread, when governor Coronavirus decided he was going to re-open Texas because case counts stayed low and he wanted praise from the President. 

If you're re-opening things, what is your strategy to avoid what is happening in Texas right now? You need to identify that first. If you're opening restaurants and the virus is spreading, then you're going to have spreading virus - you literally can't keep a mask on and eat food at the same time. Maybe you've got "masks everywhere, required everywhere possible, restaurants and bars all stay closed, and aggressive contact tracing ready to go right now" as your plan and that could be good enough, but basically, you can't open schools until you tell me how you're going to keep them from adding people to the chains (even if kids under 13 don't seem to be the likely super-spreaders).

Hopefully the teachers unions remain real jerks about that too, because they should. They're literally being put in harms way if they don't have proper safety equipment.

If you re-open things and you don't have that strategy in place already...well I can say hi from one of several examples of that.

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It really isn't clear at all that especially younger kids are strong transmitters of the disease. They are certainly capable of it, but the younger they are there has been studies that the viral load may be lower. Which is different than typical spread where their filthy hands get you sick. And I disagree that high schoolers won't wear masks.

Israel is really the only place I've seen where schools reopening had spread.

Southsideirish is right, this is a significant effect on education. Kids are falling behind from the shut down. 

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1 hour ago, NorthSideSox72 said:

We aren't going to eliminate the virus in the US (at least not for years anyway). The goal was, is and still should be, to keep the country safe enough that the medical systems are not overwhelmed. And by keeping it tamped down to that level you also save a bunch of lives and buy time for better treatments and eventually a vaccine.

Illinois has done this, and done it really well. In fact I actually feel some pride when I see how well our state has done compared to others. And what that means is, we are safe enough for this Phase 4 of reopening - and the schools 100% need to open with it. You can't do one without the other for a whole host of reasons. I want to see the schools opened up fully in the fall.

Now, obviously if some massive spike occurs, and ICU beds and ventilators go near maxed out and infection rates are out of control, then you go back a step. Hopefully that doesn't happen but it could. And in that case, you go back a step on ALL of it - if you close the schools, you close down all non-essential services too.

I'd be shocked if IDPH's school guidelines are just "back to normal, plus masks"

 

I posted Wisconsin's guidelines on the last page. I'd expect something similar. The exact implementation is going to vary widely district to district.

 

edit:

It's selfish, but I'm thinking about my family's personal chains of contact. We're at just my immediate family (me, wife, two toddlers) plus once a week the kids to both grandparents' houses. The grandparents have no other contact aside from a weekly grocery store trip or delivery people. It's a very closed chain. My FIL's in good health but diabetic, my MIL had some mystery immune disorder a decade ago that went away on its own but who knows if its lingering, and my mom's on immunosuppresants for arthritis. 

Come August, if my wife's middle school opens back up, we're now going to have to add her 100+ students and any staff she interacts with. We'll also have to add in a dozen kids each plus staff for each of our kids at school. That's an enormous expansion of potential primary exposures for one single family. The secondary contact is probably another order of magnitude beyond that (all of the students' and staffs' family or friend or whoever else contacts).

What's our plan for that? Is several hundred new cases every day with no unified contact tracing something that can support that without going exponential? Are state and local leaders really willing to slam us back into a lockdown if we turn into Texas or Arizona or Florida or parts of California?

Edited by StrangeSox
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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I said this 2 months and 2 days ago, probably in this thread, when governor Coronavirus decided he was going to re-open Texas because case counts stayed low and he wanted praise from the President. 

If you're re-opening things, what is your strategy to avoid what is happening in Texas right now? You need to identify that first. If you're opening restaurants and the virus is spreading, then you're going to have spreading virus - you literally can't keep a mask on and eat food at the same time. Maybe you've got "masks everywhere, required everywhere possible, restaurants and bars all stay closed, and aggressive contact tracing ready to go right now" as your plan and that could be good enough, but basically, you can't open schools until you tell me how you're going to keep them from adding people to the chains (even if kids under 13 don't seem to be the likely super-spreaders).

Hopefully the teachers unions remain real jerks about that too, because they should. They're literally being put in harms way if they don't have proper safety equipment.

If you re-open things and you don't have that strategy in place already...well I can say hi from one of several examples of that.

Oh there absolutely need to be safety measures. When I said open up 100%, that was not supposed to mean "go back to 100% exactly the way things were". I just meant, all kids going to school. Clearly there will need to be mask rules, lots of disinfecting of surfaces more often, spacing, avoiding the all-school gatherings and the like, a temporary reduction or removal of certain extra-curriculars that have higher risk, etc. To wit...

 

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

I'd be shocked if IDPH's school guidelines are just "back to normal, plus masks"

 

I posted Wisconsin's guidelines on the last page. I'd expect something similar. The exact implementation is going to vary widely district to district.

Yes, in fact the state's school board has already made some recommendations to IDPH, along with saying they think schools should open barring a new and significant outbreak. IDPH will supposedly issue their detailed guidance in the next couple weeks.

 

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