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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768351

This is just on hospitalized patients from Italy. Sample size is 143, so not terrible, some biases through it being people hospitalized but given that exception, the real number is probably within 10% of this. Patients studied 60 days after the onset of the illness, a large majority still experiencing symptoms 2 full months later. More than half had mulitple symptoms. 

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 at the time of the evaluation, only 18 (12.6%) were completely free of any COVID-19–related symptom, while 32% had 1 or 2 symptoms and 55% had 3 or more. None of the patients had fever or any signs or symptoms of acute illness. Worsened quality of life was observed among 44.1% of patients. The Figure shows that a high proportion of individuals still reported fatigue (53.1%), dyspnea (43.4%), joint pain, (27.3%) and chest pain (21.7%).

 

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3 hours ago, BrianAnderson said:

Because incentives aren't in place. Follow the money. Always. 

When you broadcast to the US that you're open for business,, nobody has to wear a mask, come eat and drink inside! you're going to have swarms of people then travel and go do those things in your state. Thus creating a never ending cycle. Which we are in now. TX, FL, AZ all made a big to do about how they're returning to normal. As much as it sucks there's a lot of dumb people who dont believe science and math and think this is some kind of government hoax to take their power and freedom and financial stability away. 

Currently there's no incentive to keep your states businesses closed when others are open. You start turning into the bad guy. (Even though in reality youre the good guy). However in the plan above (which admittedly is hard to enforce) now you have the incentive in place that if guidelines are followed, then you can actually open up businesses normally. And then once you're on that list, you can start visiting the other states that are on said list. it creates an economic incentive. 

 

Testing + making the area you need to monitor smaller = solution. 

 

All a message board idea though - if it were that easy to execute it'd happen by now. These people in power aren't necessarily dumb, they're smart people that have a nearly impossible job to complete in a tough environment. 

Complete failure at the federal level, including both the executive and Congress, who just decided to take yet another vacation after doing nothing, is the key to all of this.

Federalism didn't mean we were domed; Germany is a federal system and they've done pretty well. But when our federal government completely failed to form coherent plans and strategies and to financially support the appropriate measures, we were doomed.

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12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is sooooo true.  The government wants their poor kid baby sitters back so they can force people back to work.

I want an actual education for my kids.  Not a fucking once a week zoom with homework that lasts 30 minutes.  If this is more of the same in the fall.  Then there is zero point.  The same elderly teachers that are at risk to get covid and have secondary issues also have a non-existent grasp of how to use technology.  So this will be another round of "we are not ready for this".   Then more once a week zooms.  

Edited by southsideirish71
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On 7/6/2020 at 11:36 PM, Tony said:

You asked how the White House has failed. I laid out multiple ways, your response was citing “counter arguments” that revolves around agencies that have nothing to do with the White House. 

In terms of your request, I really don’t see that serving much of a purpose with you, at least until you start to dig your head out of the sand, and drop those water jugs you seem to want to carry for your Orange leader. 

Don’t ask the question if you don’t want a real response. 

Why so defensive? If you can't make a logical argument, that's ok, I get it, but hopefully I can help educate you vs. your last reply and you can walk away with more knowledge vs. your talking points which are a nice try at distraction, but not accurate. 

Both of my comments on testing/masks were both in reply to your comments and both are not accurate.

You took Trump's on testing to imply that he's directing his government to do less testing. Is that accurate? If so, can you explain why literally everyone in the involved has publicly stated that they have never been directed to do so? Can you explain why we just tested 750K people on 7/9?  Not a good argument.

Even Fauci doesn't want a federal government mandate on masks. He prefers state/local mandates. How would you actually enforce a national mandate on masks? Again, as mentioned, there are federal guidelines. More states are adding additional regulations on masks. 

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On 7/8/2020 at 9:17 AM, Tony said:

It was asked a few days ago “How has the White House handled this poorly?” 
 

I submit exhibit 1,367 to the court:

 

Oliver Darcy is your exhibit 1367? What's next? Don Lemon's logic?

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5 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Back over a thousand cases per day for the first time in over a month. What is our plan to control this and stop them from continuing to increase?

 

https://twitter.com/edyong209/status/1281289583674736642

Percentage of positive cases remains under 3% in the state. Illinois tested over 36K people today. As the state re-opens, there will be more cases.

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So, for what it's worth, my coworker and her entire family had COVID.

Now her father, who works in a hospital, has tested positive again. This time it's more severe.

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8 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

Can't wait for my wife to have to go back to teaching in a building with over a thousand people in six weeks. Glad we've kept everything super safe and case counts in Illinois continue to drop!

 

Same except add in the word pregnant before wife.

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11 minutes ago, Quin said:

So, for what it's worth, my coworker and her entire family had COVID.

 Now her father, who works in a hospital, has tested positive again. This time it's more severe.

Its real simple.  If antibodies do not have a long term cycle of protection and people can get this more than once.  Then all of this is for naught. A vaccine will not work then.  

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https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imperial-county/index.html
Unbelievable at this point that an entire CA hospital could spin out of control after all this time...



GOP governor: I think President Trump is confused

President Trump slammed the CDC's guidance for reopening schools, but Maryland's GOP Gov. Larry Hogan says the guidance was helpful and he believes Trump is confused about it.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/09/governor-larry-hogan-trump-confused-newday-vpx.cnn

 


https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/us-coronavirus-summer-reopening/index.html

US Could Face a Double Whammy, Experts Say 


 

Stop saying what should happen. Figure out how.

And it's also why Trump's demand that schools open is so craven. Of course the schools should open. Everyone wants the schools to open.

It's how to open up without spreading the disease that no one can seem to figure out.

One very simple thing would be to wear a face mask in public to shut down people like this Ohio lawmaker who thinks nothing is wrong.

If the schools open, as Trump demands, and teachers and other adults who work there get sick, they'll close again. Just like the states that must now pause reopening.

Yesterday, it was a summer camp in Arkansas that closed after people started testing positive. Now Nashville says it's delaying the opening of its school year -- which had been planned for August 4 -- until Labor Day at least. 

Presidents and policymakers need to play chess: Think ahead, identify possible outcomes and be ready for contingencies.

That's hard to do when you don't believe there's a problem.

Edited by caulfield12

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6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/california-coronavirus-imperial-county/index.html
Unbelievable at this point that an entire CA hospital could spin out of control after all this time...



GOP governor: I think President Trump is confused

President Trump slammed the CDC's guidance for reopening schools, but Maryland's GOP Gov. Larry Hogan says the guidance was helpful and he believes Trump is confused about it.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/09/governor-larry-hogan-trump-confused-newday-vpx.cnn

 


https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/09/us/us-coronavirus-summer-reopening/index.html

US Could Face a Double Whammy, Experts Say 

 

Hogan could be the face of the post-Trump Republican Party.

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It will likely be an all-out battle between Pence, Nikki Haley, Cruz, Rubio, Paul Ryan and those governors like Hogan, Baker and DeWine...maybe Kasich will jump back into the fray as well.

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44 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Same except add in the word pregnant before wife.

Without adding too many details, how much have you followed the recent results on the virus and pregnancies?

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1 hour ago, The Beast said:

Same except add in the word pregnant before wife.

Congrats!!! 

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3 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

I want an actual education for my kids.  Not a fucking once a week zoom with homework that lasts 30 minutes.  If this is more of the same in the fall.  Then there is zero point.  The same elderly teachers that are at risk to get covid and have secondary issues also have a non-existent grasp of how to use technology.  So this will be another round of "we are not ready for this".   Then more once a week zooms.  

I feel your pain. Thing is I think we're all doomed to stop life again until probably next summer. We're hearing about spikes in Covid anywhere people gather. What's going to happen is schools would open and kids are going to have the virus, give it to a teacher and all hell is going to break loose. Part of me says just ignore Covid and let it do what it must do. The other part of me says I don't want to get it, be on a ventilator and also have to pay exorbitant fees for medical care. I feel for kids. They belong in school. It's very serious keeping them out of class this long. I heard one district is saying the child can go to school two days a week or stay home for an all online option. What a choice. I'd probably choose the all online option.

BTW if it's true that 70 percent of American families are living paycheck to paycheck like I heard un fact checked on TV tonight, God help us all. This really could be the end.

Edited by greg775
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5 hours ago, spiderman said:

Why so defensive? If you can't make a logical argument, that's ok, I get it, but hopefully I can help educate you vs. your last reply and you can walk away with more knowledge vs. your talking points which are a nice try at distraction, but not accurate. 

Both of my comments on testing/masks were both in reply to your comments and both are not accurate.

You took Trump's on testing to imply that he's directing his government to do less testing. Is that accurate? If so, can you explain why literally everyone in the involved has publicly stated that they have never been directed to do so? Can you explain why we just tested 750K people on 7/9?  Not a good argument.

Even Fauci doesn't want a federal government mandate on masks. He prefers state/local mandates. How would you actually enforce a national mandate on masks? Again, as mentioned, there are federal guidelines. More states are adding additional regulations on masks. 

Exactly what is Trump doing to make the US citizens safer re Covid 19?
 Once the calendar turned to May 1, he gave up and went with whatever Fox News personalizes working from home told him. Now he insists schools be open. Not because Kids need an education but because if they aren’t open their parents won’t be back at work, therefore the economy won’t be back to the level he needs for re-election. The countries he whines that opened their schools didn’t listen to Drs. Hannity and Carlson and Ingraham. That is why it is safer for them to open. Ignoring science is pretty ignorant, and that is exactly what the WH has done. 
 

What happened to the virus is going to go away when it gets warm?  You would think a self described germaphobe would wear a mask. Even that claim is fake. Listening to the WH will literally get you sick and maybe killed.

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8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Without adding too many details, how much have you followed the recent results on the virus and pregnancies?

She has been following it more closely than I have, but what should I know? Any questions about the virus or the pregnancy are going straight to the doctor but I could always use more information to consider. It’s hard not to worry but we can’t do anything with worrying and have to take things a day at a time.

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10 hours ago, spiderman said:

Percentage of positive cases remains under 3% in the state. Illinois tested over 36K people today. As the state re-opens, there will be more cases.

Positive test ratio lets you know if you're testing enough, but it doesn't tell you overall what shape you're in.

What are we doing to stop the growth of new cases? Have we implemented robust contact tracing? How do we make sure that 500 daily cases doesn't turn into 1000 daily cases (oops) doesn't turn into 5k+ daily cases?

And how much of that is largely outside of Illinois' control thanks to policy failures in other states and especially at the federal level?

Oh and by the way, we're running out of PPE again. How, exactly, are we going to safely staff schools with no PPE available?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/health/coronavirus-masks-ppe-doc.html

We've wasted the last several months. Complete and utter failure by our federal government. And now they're cutting back federal testing sites in areas that need it most. Shameful.

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10 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

I want an actual education for my kids.  Not a fucking once a week zoom with homework that lasts 30 minutes.  If this is more of the same in the fall.  Then there is zero point.  The same elderly teachers that are at risk to get covid and have secondary issues also have a non-existent grasp of how to use technology.  So this will be another round of "we are not ready for this".   Then more once a week zooms.  

We should all be furious at the political leadership that has failed us nearly every step of the way. There's no reason we couldn't look like Germany right now. We could be talking about a few thousand cases per day across the country, and the potential for having to do temporary shutdowns of schools on district or county basis if there's an outbreak. Instead, we have an out-of-control pandemic raging across nearly the entire country.

We could attempt to just open schools up, 5-days-a-week in-person instruction as if it were last February, but I think we all know that can't possibly last. How long until multiple teachers in a single school all get Covid and have to isolate for 14+ days? Oh and most districts in Illinois have been struggling to find subs in normal times for years. Now you've got decimated budgets and unsafe conditions and probably lots of positions to staff with subs in schools across the region.

I get where you're coming from. My kid's only 3 so we're not concerned about the education yet, but we're starting to worry about the socialization aspect. She hasn't been around other children (aside from her infant brother) since March. It's extremely frustrating to be unable to plan ahead, to have any sense of what things will look like in a month or two or three. Online education *is* a joke compared to in-person instruction.

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I posted before about my daughter working at a restaurant where two co-workers tested positive for the virus. The restaurant manager went into complete denial.

This restaurant is part of a corporation and is not locally owned. My daughter called Human Resources to tell them she didn't feel comfortable about returning to work and to talk about the situation as a whole. She said HR talked down to her and didn't want to address the situation. She was tempted to go to the media because she didn't think that people should go to what could be a hot spot. Then it was reported in the media that the place was closing down for a time in order to sanitize the place. They claimed all of their employees have been tested which is a lie. My daughter will be tested on Monday.

I think think this symbolizes the whole situation. The business wanted to stay open, but it was becoming an increasing danger to its employees and the general public. There is no other solution until a treatment and or vaccine is developed. The only way to stop this thing is stop the spread. And opening up and pretending everything is all right will not solve anything. No, it is not going away. No, the summer heat is not killing it. No, Trump's suggestions for treatments will not work.  So the country needs to face it. We need to social distance and wear masks. We will also need to do some painful things.  Things are just not normal now.

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11 hours ago, spiderman said:

Why so defensive? If you can't make a logical argument, that's ok, I get it, but hopefully I can help educate you vs. your last reply and you can walk away with more knowledge vs. your talking points which are a nice try at distraction, but not accurate. 

Both of my comments on testing/masks were both in reply to your comments and both are not accurate.

You took Trump's on testing to imply that he's directing his government to do less testing. Is that accurate? If so, can you explain why literally everyone in the involved has publicly stated that they have never been directed to do so? Can you explain why we just tested 750K people on 7/9?  Not a good argument.

Even Fauci doesn't want a federal government mandate on masks. He prefers state/local mandates. How would you actually enforce a national mandate on masks? Again, as mentioned, there are federal guidelines. More states are adding additional regulations on masks. 

The problem with Trump is he's the boy who cried wolf. He's done and said so many ridiculous things that he's lost all credibility & trust. And once that's gone it's hard to "lead" effectively. If we did this like a blind fantasy baseball test -- Player A did this. Player B did this. Who do you like? I have a sneaking suspicion that more people would be actually okay with the moves that Trump has made. The problem is he's made everything around him (by choice) a traveling circus. 

I remain in the camp that there are too many people in the US for a single president to actually make a difference - presidents are more the PR for country. Just guiding the ship gently and as a calming driving force, hopefully moving it forward. We could use that in time of a pandemic more than ever. 

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8 hours ago, greg775 said:

I feel your pain. Thing is I think we're all doomed to stop life again until probably next summer. We're hearing about spikes in Covid anywhere people gather. What's going to happen is schools would open and kids are going to have the virus, give it to a teacher and all hell is going to break loose. Part of me says just ignore Covid and let it do what it must do. The other part of me says I don't want to get it, be on a ventilator and also have to pay exorbitant fees for medical care. I feel for kids. They belong in school. It's very serious keeping them out of class this long. I heard one district is saying the child can go to school two days a week or stay home for an all online option. What a choice. I'd probably choose the all online option.

BTW if it's true that 70 percent of American families are living paycheck to paycheck like I heard un fact checked on TV tonight, God help us all. This really could be the end.

My district announced yesterday the exact plan you mentioned; 2 days in person supplemented by online learning or you can do full online. I believe the plan is for them to have half of the people who elect to do the in-person hybrid program (2 in person & some form of online supplement) are going to go Mon/Tues; Wed the school will be closed and than Thurs/Fri the other half of children in the hybrid program will go to the school.  

It should keep numbers down and allow for better sanitation and at this point, presuming they can do it safely, 2 days in person is better than none. I hope they shift the cadence for how they do the in person to ensure they maximize in-person time and than allow the at home to really be a facilitation of what was learned in person.  I can not handle more zoom - it was the most worthless experience I've ever seen at my kids ages (5 & 6).  

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12 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

Its real simple.  If antibodies do not have a long term cycle of protection and people can get this more than once.  Then all of this is for naught. A vaccine will not work then.  

It's possible to get chicken pox twice and we have a vaccine for that now. But most people don't.

Could be the same thing here. I've heard of people getting covid twice but I don't think it's that common.

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1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

I posted before about my daughter working at a restaurant where two co-workers tested positive for the virus. The restaurant manager went into complete denial.

This restaurant is part of a corporation and is not locally owned. My daughter called Human Resources to tell them she didn't feel comfortable about returning to work and to talk about the situation as a whole. She said HR talked down to her and didn't want to address the situation. She was tempted to go to the media because she didn't think that people should go to what could be a hot spot. Then it was reported in the media that the place was closing down for a time in order to sanitize the place. They claimed all of their employees have been tested which is a lie. My daughter will be tested on Monday.

I think think this symbolizes the whole situation. The business wanted to stay open, but it was becoming an increasing danger to its employees and the general public. There is no other solution until a treatment and or vaccine is developed. The only way to stop this thing is stop the spread. And opening up and pretending everything is all right will not solve anything. No, it is not going away. No, the summer heat is not killing it. No, Trump's suggestions for treatments will not work.  So the country needs to face it. We need to social distance and wear masks. We will also need to do some painful things.  Things are just not normal now.

We have a super similar situation happening in my home town.  They closed down on 4th of July weekend, which is one of their busiest weekends of the year out of "precaution" to deep clean for 5 days, yet are denying that they had any positive tests, even though employees are saying 3 of them tested positive.

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