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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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14 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Not sure, but herd immunity is not a humane option. (I’m not saying you are suggesting that either.)

I guess I’m saying that we need to put our collective heads together and figure out a solution that still allows for in class instruction. I knows it’s challenging and we are still learning more and more about this virus every day but it’s disappointing that we haven’t figured out a more effective way of doing this after months of planning.

Again, in the scenario that herd immunity is not viable (because the virus mutates to different strains ala influenza) and no effective vaccine is produced, what are we going to do? If we switch to remote learning, I would expect a major shakeup to how both families and the economy are structured. Back to the days of one non-working spouse to take care of and teach the kids, and I would also hope a significant property tax reduction (since public schools account for a high percentage of the tax bill) to help offset the loss in household income.

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18 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess I’m saying that we need to put our collective heads together and figure out a solution that still allows for in class instruction. I knows it’s challenging and we are still learning more and more about this virus every day but it’s disappointing that we haven’t figured out a more effective way of doing this after months of planning.

Again, in the scenario that herd immunity is not viable (because the virus mutates to different strains ala influenza) and no effective vaccine is produced, what are we going to do? If we switch to remote learning, I would expect a major shakeup to how both families and the economy are structured. Back to the days of one non-working spouse to take care of and teach the kids, and I would also hope a significant property tax reduction (since public schools account for a high percentage of the tax bill) to help offset the loss in household income.

The solution was to wear masks, shut things down and stop the spread back in March/April.

But we couldnt pull together. 

Almost every other country could do it. We just didnt prioritize schools, we prioritized our rights not to wear masks.

The US still is fighting the science. Why even have school? We dont listen to scientists anyways.

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We gave Boeing and the major airlines how much again, $60 billion and counting?   Good luck with those who keep calling for property tax REDUCTIONS.

 

New Estimate to Reopen Schools After Coronavirus: $116.5 Billion

A projection by the American Federation of Teachers estimated that America’s K-12 schools will need an average of $1.2 million each to reopen from coronavirus-related closures.

A SOBERING NEW ESTIMATE for how much it will cost schools to reopen in the fall – both safely and with the proper academic and emotional supports in place for the 55 million children whose schools were shuttered as the coronavirus spread across the U.S. – puts the total financial burden at $116.5 billion.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2020-06-09/new-estimate-to-reopen-schools-after-coronavirus-1165-billion

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38 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess I’m saying that we need to put our collective heads together and figure out a solution that still allows for in class instruction. I knows it’s challenging and we are still learning more and more about this virus every day but it’s disappointing that we haven’t figured out a more effective way of doing this after months of planning.

Again, in the scenario that herd immunity is not viable (because the virus mutates to different strains ala influenza) and no effective vaccine is produced, what are we going to do? If we switch to remote learning, I would expect a major shakeup to how both families and the economy are structured. Back to the days of one non-working spouse to take care of and teach the kids, and I would also hope a significant property tax reduction (since public schools account for a high percentage of the tax bill) to help offset the loss in household income.

My proposed solution is to do three days in school, two days out of school. For younger kids, maybe that is five days in school, assuming they don’t get infected as much as others do.

I don’t know what is going to happen without a vaccine that can be used in the way that childhood vaccinations or one that is like the seasonal flu. I can’t say that property taxes will get reduced in a state like Illinois without spending reform. But the economy could get transformed, without a doubt.

My biggest concern is coming up with a plan for my anxious pregnant high school teacher wife to go back to work in the fall for two months before she takes maternity leave. She talks to HR next week to see what her options are.

I fully anticipate starting with in person instruction (four days in, one day online)  to fail as cases soar. I then bet school will be remote until a vaccine is created. If not, I don’t know what there is to do.

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1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

The solution was to wear masks, shut things down and stop the spread back in March/April.

But we couldnt pull together. 

Almost every other country could do it. We just didnt prioritize schools, we prioritized our rights not to wear masks.

The US still is fighting the science. Why even have school? We dont listen to scientists anyways.

Man, I’m just as pissed as the next person that this country is too selfish to get this thing under control but we have to face reality. As long as Trump is President and, probably even when he’s not, I just don’t see it happening. So we have to figure out how to move forward.

Hopefully all this concern is for naught and we have a 100% effective vaccine later this year or next and we can get back to “normal.” But what if we don’t have an effective vaccine, herd immunity isn’t viable, and this Just becomes another virus we have to live with indefinitely? 

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1 hour ago, turnin' two said:

Meh. They are basically in the same situation as millions of other people. 

Yeah. Their places of work should be shut down until this is under control and we have adequate testing, tracing, and isolation for positives like millions of others.

Edited by StrangeSox

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1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess I’m saying that we need to put our collective heads together and figure out a solution that still allows for in class instruction. I knows it’s challenging and we are still learning more and more about this virus every day but it’s disappointing that we haven’t figured out a more effective way of doing this after months of planning.

Again, in the scenario that herd immunity is not viable (because the virus mutates to different strains ala influenza) and no effective vaccine is produced, what are we going to do? If we switch to remote learning, I would expect a major shakeup to how both families and the economy are structured. Back to the days of one non-working spouse to take care of and teach the kids, and I would also hope a significant property tax reduction (since public schools account for a high percentage of the tax bill) to help offset the loss in household income.

Test, trace, isolate, and get case numbers way way way way down. Then you can implement actually safe reopening plans for schools.

Edited by StrangeSox

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46 minutes ago, The Beast said:

My proposed solution is to do three days in school, two days out of school. For younger kids, maybe that is five days in school, assuming they don’t get infected as much as others do.

I don’t know what is going to happen without a vaccine that can be used in the way that childhood vaccinations or one that is like the seasonal flu. I can’t say that property taxes will get reduced in a state like Illinois without spending reform. But the economy could get transformed, without a doubt.

My biggest concern is coming up with a plan for my anxious pregnant high school teacher wife to go back to work in the fall for two months before she takes maternity leave. She talks to HR next week to see what her options are.

I fully anticipate starting with in person instruction (four days in, one day online)  to fail as cases soar. I then bet school will be remote until a vaccine is created. If not, I don’t know what there is to do.

I feel for you. Tough spot for sure. I don’t have all the answers either but 3 on 2 off or half days 5 days a week or some other variation of that is going to put a ton of families in a really tough spot unless the schools are offering child care during hours in which the kids aren’t in the classroom. And is that even a sufficient amount of instruction for the kids If you are basically cutting the classroom time in half?

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Just now, StrangeSox said:

Test, trace, contain, and get case numbers way way way way down.

Based on the past 5 months, I don’t think we are capable. Do you? Hell, we are now seeing a minimum of 70,000 new cases a day. Probably closer to 100,000. This thing is too far gone for test, trace, contain imo. Even with a coordinated national lockdown, I’m not sure we’d get the daily count to under 10,000 at this point.

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6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I feel for you. Tough spot for sure. I don’t have all the answers either but 3 on 2 off or half days 5 days a week or some other variation of that is going to put a ton of families in a really tough spot unless the schools are offering child care during hours in which the kids aren’t in the classroom. And is that even a sufficient amount of instruction for the kids If you are basically cutting the classroom time in half?

Well what I mean is, what about five full days a week for young kids, 2 days at home, 3 full days in school for high schoolers? Wouldn’t the high school kids have to understand the added responsibility that this moment brings if the parents have to work? I wonder what parents do for kids who get out early (kindergarten in the AM) and for those who get out around 2 or 3 in middle school? I’m just not sure what the answer is or if there can even be a compromise.

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1 minute ago, The Beast said:

Well what I mean is, what about five full days a week for young kids, 2 days at home, 3 full days in school for high schoolers? Wouldn’t the high school kids have to understand the added responsibility that this moment brings if the parents have to work? I wonder what parents do for kids who get out early (kindergarten in the AM) and for those who get out around 2 or 3 in middle school? I’m just not sure what the answer is or if there can even be a compromise.

Oh gotcha. I misunderstood what you were saying. Yea, that makes a lot of sense. I thought you were saying 3 on, 2 off for elementary schools too. I just don’t see how that works.

Regarding the childcare question, most schools offer after school care. If they don’t, they coordinate with a private daycare to bus the kids to the center for after school care. The cost of 2 or 3 hours of after school care (like when the kids get out at 2:45 or 3:00 for example) is already high. But if they are getting out at noon (AM session) or don’t start until 1:00 (PM session), the cost of those childcare services just doubled unless the schools chip in to reduce the impact. And from experience, the cost of after school care for two grade school kids was already very expensive. Like close to $800/month expensive. That’s just the cost side of things but the amount of in class instruction is also a big concern.

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52 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Man, I’m just as pissed as the next person that this country is too selfish to get this thing under control but we have to face reality. As long as Trump is President and, probably even when he’s not, I just don’t see it happening. So we have to figure out how to move forward.

Hopefully all this concern is for naught and we have a 100% effective vaccine later this year or next and we can get back to “normal.” But what if we don’t have an effective vaccine, herd immunity isn’t viable, and this Just becomes another virus we have to live with indefinitely? 

It just furthers the haves and have nots. Those who can afford it will be inconvenienced to some extent. Thats why the current administration doesn't care. 

If you can work from home or afford only 1 parent working it's annoying but not the end of the world. If you don't have those things,  you're screwed.

This is why elections matter. When you put the govt in the hands of someone I wouldn't hire to get my assistant's coffee you earn the result.

I think they have to try to split days (mon/wed and (tues/thurs) and teachers are going to have to work twice as hard because they'll need to create lesson plans for the days kid are at home. You could also do friday every other week for one half.

38 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Well what I mean is, what about five full days a week for young kids, 2 days at home, 3 full days in school for high schoolers? Wouldn’t the high school kids have to understand the added responsibility that this moment brings if the parents have to work? I wonder what parents do for kids who get out early (kindergarten in the AM) and for those who get out around 2 or 3 in middle school? I’m just not sure what the answer is or if there can even be a compromise.

They still have half day kindergarten? My daughter started full day in preschool. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

It just furthers the haves and have nots. Those who can afford it will be inconvenienced to some extent. Thats why the current administration doesn't care. 

If you can work from home or afford only 1 parent working it's annoying but not the end of the world. If you don't have those things,  you're screwed.

This is why elections matter. When you put the govt in the hands of someone I wouldn't hire to get my assistant's coffee you earn the result.

I think they have to try to split days (mon/wed and (tues/thurs) and teachers are going to have to work twice as hard because they'll need to create lesson plans for the days kid are at home. You could also do friday every other week for one half.

They still have half day kindergarten? My daughter started full day in preschool. 

 

Thankfully, my district is starting out the school year with full time in class instruction for all grade schools. There was too much push back for anything less, at least right now. It’s a fluid situation so we will have to adjust accordingly if the situation here worsens. But some districts have decided to do the half day thing right off the bat and many parents were really upset with that.

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For an administration that's hypercritical about how China controls information, it's especially amusing to see the WH now employing similar information control tactics. Hopefully, we will be able to see the difference between what HHS reports and what hospitals report, maybe Johns Hopkins and IHME can continue their impartial reporting.

 

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1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Thankfully, my district is starting out the school year with full time in class instruction for all grade schools. There was too much push back for anything less, at least right now. It’s a fluid situation so we will have to adjust accordingly if the situation here worsens. But some districts have decided to do the half day thing right off the bat and many parents were really upset with that.

Im expecting that at most my kid will go 2 out of 5 days. My biggest concern is just losing the social interaction because she is young. I can easily teach a 1st grade curriculum, just need the teachers to give me honest feedback about what the expectations are. 

If for some reason I actually had to argue a side, Id definitely say take the cautious approach and let other schools be the Guinea pigs. I think the most aggressive idea that I think isn't too risky is to have a rotation like M/W/F, T/TH, M/W, TU/TH/F that way every kid goes to school 5 out 10 days. Then if things get better you could do something like having 1 day week per every kid attends and see how that goes.

But its not that easy for everyone to just figure out where to find 50% more daycare. And if you are sending kids to daycare, isnt it just completely defeating the entire purpose, because now they are being exposed to more people/other kids. Which is why there is no good answer.

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3 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Thankfully, my district is starting out the school year with full time in class instruction for all grade schools. There was too much push back for anything less, at least right now. It’s a fluid situation so we will have to adjust accordingly if the situation here worsens. But some districts have decided to do the half day thing right off the bat and many parents were really upset with that.

Hey Just, out of curiosity why was there so much pushback? Here the people are scared to death and don't want grade school, high school and colleges to open. Why are parents wanting school opened when COVID is rampant? Is it the fact online option was/is a joke or the fact parents need to work and be out of the house?

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Would be nice if there was a competent group that could make a program to take advantage of the college student population who is now taking online courses, and use them as a daycare resource. Create grants for the families to pay for it, students get grants for tuition, and Schools would be required to create schedule flexibility for these students in the program. Schools have easier time getting paid full tuition.

childcare/stimulus/higher ed bailout.

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38 minutes ago, bmags said:

Would be nice if there was a competent group that could make a program to take advantage of the college student population who is now taking online courses, and use them as a daycare resource. Create grants for the families to pay for it, students get grants for tuition, and Schools would be required to create schedule flexibility for these students in the program. Schools have easier time getting paid full tuition.

childcare/stimulus/higher ed bailout.

What salary would you pay per hour?  How to protect from Covid spread?

Where would these daycares be located?   Students would go to companies that host daycare on site?  Local shopping malls?  Community centers or non profits?

Besides K-8 education majors, psychology/counseling majors...which students would be extremely interested unless you paid roughly $12-18/hour depending on cost of living in that area?

Why just not use AmeriCorps/ViSTA national service halftime positions that come with a stipend and university voucher?
 


This is how SE Asian countries do contract tracing...they don’t mess around, even in the case of only two positive individuals.

Nobody found infected by ‘privileged’ foreigners yet

By THE NATION

The Public Health Ministry announced on Thursday morning (July 16) that nobody was found to have been infected with Covid-19 after exposure to two cases – the Egyptian soldier in Rayong and the Sudanese girl in Bangkok.

On Tuesday, lab officials said all 1,336 persons, including 886 who visited Passione shopping mall, 447 who went to Central Rayong department store and three who were summoned by an SMS from a government agency, tested negative to Covid-19.

Also, none of the 267 high-risk persons in Bangkok were found infected.

On Wednesday, 1,252 people in Rayong went to mobile biosafety units to take tests and their results are not out yet.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30391414

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

What salary would you pay per hour?  How to protect from Covid spread?

Where would these daycares be located?   Students would go to companies that host daycare on site?  Local shopping malls?  Community centers or non profits?

Besides K-8 education majors, psychology/counseling majors...which students would be extremely interested unless you paid roughly $12-18/hour depending on cost of living in that area?

Why just not use AmeriCorps/ViSTA national service halftime positions that come with a stipend and university voucher?
 


This is how SE Asian countries do contract tracing...they don’t mess around, even in the case of only two positive individuals.

Nobody found infected by ‘privileged’ foreigners yet

By THE NATION

The Public Health Ministry announced on Thursday morning (July 16) that nobody was found to have been infected with Covid-19 after exposure to two cases – the Egyptian soldier in Rayong and the Sudanese girl in Bangkok.

On Tuesday, lab officials said all 1,336 persons, including 886 who visited Passione shopping mall, 447 who went to Central Rayong department store and three who were summoned by an SMS from a government agency, tested negative to Covid-19.

Also, none of the 267 high-risk persons in Bangkok were found infected.

On Wednesday, 1,252 people in Rayong went to mobile biosafety units to take tests and their results are not out yet.

 

Source: https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30391414

Caulfield gonna blow your mind on this one - in America people hire individuals to come to their house and pay them hourly to watch their kids. They even do it with kids as young as 13 to come and watch their kids, and pay them $12-$18/hr.

There was even a documentary on it:

https://youtu.be/zBmEySbwGsk

 

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9 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

They still have half day kindergarten? My daughter started full day in preschool. 

That was just from my experience many years ago. It seemed to be common in the 90s.

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Just now, The Beast said:

That was just from my experience many years ago. It seemed to be common in the 90s.

It is still common. Full-day kindergarten is a district by district thing, basically doubles teacher costs compared to half-day.

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My proposed Idea is to send the kids back to school. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having school choice, so if you are willing to send your child to school, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

 

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6 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

My proposed Idea is to send the kids back to school. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having school choice, so if you are willing to send your child to school, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

 

And if 75% of teachers and even 50% of teachers choose online or hybrid...then what?

Not adhering to science...better yet, the complete disregard of sound science and reason, is most certainly NOT American.

In America, we value every individual life and fight to our fullest to protect those lives...knowing there will always be ways to make that money back with American ingenuity and perseverance.   We were not a country that was based on economic opportunity cost valuations of every person, regardless of race, creed or color.

Killing off more lives than any country in the world despite spending the highest on GDP per capita on health care expenses in the entire world isn’t American.

Threatening to remove health care security in the midst of the worst national crisis since World Two and the Great Depression is not an American value.   Communist/socialist beliefs value the contribution of the working class...refusing to lead essential workers like lambs to the slaughter.   They embrace the ideas of solidarity, not divisiveness and lives lived by the decrees of the privileged few making decisions about what is best for them, not the greatest good for the greatest number. 

 

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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18 minutes ago, Hawkfan said:

My proposed Idea is to send the kids back to school. But Betsy Devos has presented the perfect option of having school choice, so if you are willing to send your child to school, do it. And if not, use a different option you find appropriate.  Common sense.  Be American, do what's best for your family and don't oppress others with communist democrat ideas.

 

She married into the super-rich Amway fortune family.  That’s her lone education qualification.  Nepotism.  She’s never had the perfect anything.   She’s basically ordering teachers and students to walk through a firing squad of bullets every day...with 5 or 7 of those 100 bullets during long lasting damage to an American family that no amount of money will fix.

The American thing would have been to give 91% of the $3 trillion spent so far to those earning under $75,000 as a household.

Instead, they only got a measly 9%.   “Draining the swamp” in reverse and exchanging corporate welfare for a lost generation saddled with paying off the massive $26 trillion debt accrued over the last forty years.

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