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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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1 hour ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

My wife is an ER doctor. My life has been an absolute nightmare for about a week. Now I have to face really tough decisions about whether I leave the house because of risk of exposure or if I just stay here and ride it out. If we had kids it would be fairly straightforward: myself or my wife would go somewhere. We don't have kids, so I'm not sure it's even worth leaving if I'll probably get it anyway.

Stay at home people. 

When nearly half the workforce is living check to check, "stay at home people" isn't exactly feasible. 

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The doom and gloom of 18 months and all of that stuff is helping no one right now. We all have to stay positive. We have to help other people if we can.

Do what you can to stay safe, but if you need to work, do your best to limit exposure and make smart decisions.

 

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https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3075732/coronavirus-hubeis-migrant-workers-living-fear-debts-mount
 

It’s the same way for migrant workers here, many who have not been able to work for 8-10 weeks now.

Even if we have the greatest health care system in the world for the top 20%, the bottom 80% is still quite vulnerable...which means that every single American is vulnerable.   Whether we point the finger at Millennials, 18-24 year old Spring Breakers or illegal immigrants...it really doesn’t matter, because having to make a decision between losing one’s job and taking care of a family vs. preserving the health of those sixty and over will eventually lead to tragic results.  

Inequality of access to quality health care and sick leave.....or simply societal inequality (celebrities and athletes having no problems getting a test), something has to be done.   Listening to C-Span, every thirty minutes you get a new story of people hoarding necessities at grocery stores while seniors are struggling just to get by.  Why can’t they have specific senior hours at grocery stores to help make their lives easier?  Heck, do it during flu season, too.

You shouldn’t have to go through 2-3 doctors...nurses....administrative assistants, getting sent to 2-3 more possible places to get a test, with unreturned phone calls and runarounds.  Someone has to be accountable for results.  The system just beats people down and makes them give up...meaning they go out when they’re sick out of frustration because nobody can even tell them if they’re sick or not and need to stay in self-quarantine.

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17 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

The doom and gloom of 18 months and all of that stuff is helping no one right now. We all have to stay positive. We have to help other people if we can.

Do what you can to stay safe, but if you need to work, do your best to limit exposure and make smart decisions.

 

Sure, but it didn’t help to mention July or August, either.

2-3 months is the amount of time it SHOULD take if everyone does what they're supposed to do.  Here in China, those decisions are/were taken away from people.

But if authorities see young people going out to bars and clubs, flooding restaurants...celebrating St. Patrick’s or congregating en masse in Florida for Spring Break, then those governors will likewise take more and more freedoms away.  

You’ll have the National Guard enforcing quarantines...the more people who act like that guy in Kentucky who tested positive and refused to stay home. 

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24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Listening to C-Span, every thirty minutes you get a new story of people hoarding necessities at grocery stores while seniors are struggling just to get by.  Why can’t they have specific senior hours at grocery stores to help make their lives easier?  Heck, do it during flu season, too.

They’re doing this in the MSP area....
https://kstp.com/coronavirus/target-and-cub-announces-new-store-hours-dedicated-vulnerable-guest-shopping-time-march-17-2020/5676855/

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Shut it down...the entire country for 30 days.

GM, Ford, Fiat/Chrysler about to shut down.

Airports not far behind.  Then hotels.  Etc.

The government can’t afford to bail out every individual company...but they can make the workers whole.

No rent collection, no interest charged, loans deferred...everyone needs to take a break with their family and have the entire government take over.

Do it incrementally and it’s months or years to get back to normal. 

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4 hours ago, hogan873 said:

I can't even watch or read the news anymore.  Not just because it's depressing as hell, but also because no one really knows anything.  It's just a bunch of speculation and guesses.  News programs are bringing on "experts", and one will be a doomsayer and speculate we'll be locked down for a year while another will say "if we do this, then we could be okay in two months."  Erring on the side of caution is certainly the way to go, and social distancing will slow the spread and "flatten the curve".  Because the US has so few tests, we don't know, and may never know, how many people are actually infected or have already recovered from it.  That's both bad and good news.  Bad news, obviously, because there are certainly more cases out there.  Good news is that the mortality rate is probably significantly lower than it looks.  I would hazard to guess that there are quite a few people who have had the virus and wrote it off as the flu.  The heightened awareness is good, but let's hope those who are symptomatic but with mild symptoms stay at home and don't overwhelm the hospital system.

Overall, these are very strange times.  If something significant doesn't happen soon with the containment of the virus, many businesses will not survive.  I'm hopeful that in 6-8 weeks there's progress and restrictions are lifted/relaxed.  Only time will tell at this point.

Nice thoughtful post. I agree with your second and third sentences a lot. I don't like reading or listening to news either because of the uncertainty. It seems to me there have been rash decisions after rash decisions with the obvious goal to make us all stay home. I personally don't think it's un-American to question this a bit. We've gone from a carefree country mostly discussing partisan politics this past year and doing whatever the hell we want to do, go wherever we want to go, to being told to stay cooped up and don't dare leave your abode.

I happen to question why we can't sit in a coffee shop and work when there always are no more than 5 people in there. While I tend to agree with social distancing nobody knows for sure if sitting in a coffee shop in Lawrence Kansas at 2 p.m. on.a Wednesday is harming me and the world both.

I liked the fact there was a story that Kansans are "outraged" the decision was made to close all schools at all levels. While I may agree with the decision I think some of these decisions are a bit harsh with no public input. Just shut up and do what the experts say.

Forgive me for not handling staying home very well. It's difficult for some of us to deal with even if it may be a selfish attitude.

Edited by greg775
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2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Nice thoughtful post. I agree with your second and third sentences a lot. I don't like reading or listening to news either because of the uncertainty. It seems to me there have been rash decisions after rash decisions with the obvious goal to make us all stay home. I personally don't think it's un-American to question this a bit. We've gone from a carefree country mostly discussing partisan politics this past year and doing whatever the hell we want to do to being told to stay cooped up and don't dare leave your abode.

I happen to question why we can't sit in a coffee shop and work when there always are no more than 5 people in there. While I tend to agree with social distancing nobody knows for sure if sitting in a coffee shop in Lawrence Kansas at 2 p.m. on.a Wednesday is harming me and the world both.

I liked the fact there was a story that Kansans are "outraged" the decision was made to close all schools at all levels. While I may agree with the decision I think some of these decisions are a bit harsh with no public input. Just shut up and do what the experts say.

Forgive me for not handling staying home very well. It's difficult for some of us to deal with even if it may be a selfish attitude.

You don't understand the decisions because you don't watch the news. 

You question the experts opinion because you refuse to be informed. 

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3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I happen to question why we can't sit in a coffee shop and work when there always are no more than 5 people in there. While I tend to agree with social distancing nobody knows for sure if sitting in a coffee shop in Lawrence Kansas at 2 p.m. on.a Wednesday is harming me and the world both.

The trick is that you can't know that an infected person wasn't in there before you. Maybe it's not your coffee shop, but with 10,000+ infected people in the country, if every coffee shop had 5 people in it, someone in one of them would be infected. The virus has been shown to survive on surfaces for some time, minutes to days depending on the surface. So, one person in one coffee shop infects 3 or 4 people, they infect their families, they go to a coffee shop again 3 days later and now they contaminate a surface, and now you've got a cluster of 20 people infected and you probably kill someone.

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31 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Shut it down...the entire country for 30 days.

GM, Ford, Fiat/Chrysler about to shut down.

Airports not far behind.  Then hotels.  Etc.

The government can’t afford to bail out every individual company...but they can make the workers whole.

No rent collection, no interest charged, loans deferred...everyone needs to take a break with their family and have the entire government take over.

Do it incrementally and it’s months or years to get back to normal. 

So we shut it all down. Including food production and distribution? Not saying we don't need it but won't we all starve? Any time a store gets a shipment there will be lines 2 blocks long that you stand in before the store completely sells out of goods? If we keep this trend of shutting EVERYTHING down, I think we're in big trouble. Big ol fat America (aren't 50 percent of peeps overweight?), coddled America is going to have NOTHING for its citizens to eat or do very very soon?

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6 minutes ago, Tony said:

You don't understand the decisions because you don't watch the news. 

You question the experts opinion because you refuse to be informed. 

You'd be surprised. I've read. I've heard. I read. I hear. I may not want to listen or read but I read enough daily to know why we are doing what we are doing. If you gave me a test on corona and what it means, etc., I would pass the test.

I read that latest study that was making the rounds yesterday that listed what would have happened had we made no response.

I want a calculated response, something that doesn't totally destroy 3/4s of all businesses in America, something that doesn't force 3/4 of the working force to be laid off their jobs. Not enough talk about some of these things, just the virus. What I'm saying is there should be some compromise or really, truly this will be zombieland soon. Very few people will have a job. Very few people will have any food. Nobody will have any gas to drive anywhere. All it will take then is a few incidents to cause civil unrest and yes maybe the end of America.

Edited by greg775

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1 minute ago, greg775 said:

So we shut it all down. Including food production and distribution? Not saying we don't need it but won't we all starve? Any time a store gets a shipment there will be lines 2 blocks long that you stand in before the store completely sells out of goods? If we keep this trend of shutting EVERYTHING down, I think we're in big trouble. Big ol fat America (aren't 50 percent of peeps overweight?), coddled America is going to have NOTHING for its citizens to eat or do very very soon?

Obviously we still need food, health care, pharmacies, gas stations, military/National Guard.

We can convert all the planes for airlines that will soon be bailed out for deliveries if necessary.

The infrastructure has to be kept in place to ensure food delivery.

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Just now, greg775 said:

You'd be surprised. I've read. I've heard. I read. I hear. I may not want to listen or read but I read enough daily to know why we are doing what we are doing. I read that latest study that was making the rounds yesterday that listed what would have happened had we made no response.

I want a calculated response, something that doesn't totally destroy 3/4s of all businesses in America, something that doesn't force 3/4 of the working force to be laid off their jobs. Not enough talk about some of these things, just the virus. What I'm saying is there should be some compromise or really, truly this will be zombieland soon. Very few people will have a job. Very few people will have any food. Nobody will have any gas to drive anywhere.

Dude, a virus doesn't compromise.   This is exactly why Tony said you are uninformed.   ESSENTIAL businesses will continue to function unless something truly catastrophic happens 

sitting in fucking Starbucks because five other people are there isn't essential

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17 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You'd be surprised. I've read. I've heard. I read. I hear. I may not want to listen or read but I read enough daily to know why we are doing what we are doing. If you gave me a test on corona and what it means, etc., I would pass the test.

I read that latest study that was making the rounds yesterday that listed what would have happened had we made no response.

I want a calculated response, something that doesn't totally destroy 3/4s of all businesses in America, something that doesn't force 3/4 of the working force to be laid off their jobs. Not enough talk about some of these things, just the virus. What I'm saying is there should be some compromise or really, truly this will be zombieland soon. Very few people will have a job. Very few people will have any food. Nobody will have any gas to drive anywhere. All it will take then is a few incidents to cause civil unrest and yes maybe the end of America.


 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-ackman-pleads-to-trump-to-increase-closures-to-save-the-economy-shut-it-down-now.html

I am just relaying his idea....which seems crazy at first.

Some are suggesting every American gets an open credit line/loan from the govnt to be paid back within five years. That’s even crazier.  Or the Fed’s going to have to invest in corporate bonds to keep cash flowing...as long as it isn’t devoted to stock buybacks like Starbucks just did.

It’s not a business crisis, it's a health crisis impacting every aspect of American life.   If we go week to week and argue over bailing out which airline...hotel chain...cruise line...energy company or restaurant, we’ll have a $30 trillion deficit in no time.  

Instead of stretching this out over months or even years...do like we did here in China.   Whether it’s 4 weeks or 6 or 8, it’s better for the government to protect workers over that time span than to let half the S&P 500 get wiped out because of a virus or balance sheet that’s not ideal.   
 

Food choices will be more limited than people are used to...but it’s not like we are being asked to storm the beaches of Normandy and face a 50% chance of not going home in one piece.

Edited by caulfield12

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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:


 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-ackman-pleads-to-trump-to-increase-closures-to-save-the-economy-shut-it-down-now.html

I am just relaying his idea....which seems crazy at first.

Some are suggesting every American gets an open credit line/loan from the govnt to be paid back within five years. That’s even crazier.  Or the Fed’s going to have to invest in corporate bonds to keep cash flowing...as long as it isn’t devoted to stock buybacks like Starbucks just did.

It’s not a business crisis, it's a health crisis impacting every aspect of American life.   If we go week to week and argue over bailing out which airline...hotel chain...cruise line...energy company or restaurant, we’ll have a $30 trillion deficit in no time.  

Instead of stretching this out over months or even years...do like we did here in China.   Whether it’s 4 weeks or 6 or 8, it’s better for the government to protect workers over that time span than to let half the S&P 500 get wiped out because of a virus or balance sheet that’s not ideal.   
 

Food choices will be more limited than people are used to...but it’s not like we are being asked to storm the beaches of Normandy and face a 50% chance of not going home in one piece.

Doesn't that depend on your age? Don't people over 60 have a high chance of getting seriously ill at the very least from this thing? 

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Dude, a virus doesn't compromise.   This is exactly why Tony said you are uninformed.   ESSENTIAL businesses will continue to function unless something truly catastrophic happens 

sitting in fucking Starbucks because five other people are there isn't essential

This.  We have a health crisis in this country.  The response to the health crisis (which is necessary to save lives) is causing a financial crisis.  The feds need to step up to provide a safety net that allows small businesses to survive and re-hire on the other side (grants, no interest loans, a complete halt to evictions, etc.).  The feds need to provide direct stimulus to individuals - without delay to means test - to provide people with the resources to weather this storm without breaking quarantine and putting others at risk.  

The food supply chain will continue.  There will still be gas at gas stations.  But a lot of small businesses are going to suffer a lot of hurt, and a lot of workers are going to lose their jobs.  And the way to deal with that is to have the feds provide the resources for those businesses to survive the next couple months without operating, and those workers to have the resources to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

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9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Doesn't that depend on your age? Don't people over 60 have a high chance of getting seriously ill at the very least from this thing? 

It’s not a 50% chance dude.  For FUCK’S sake.  

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24 minutes ago, illinilaw08 said:

This.  We have a health crisis in this country.  The response to the health crisis (which is necessary to save lives) is causing a financial crisis.  The feds need to step up to provide a safety net that allows small businesses to survive and re-hire on the other side (grants, no interest loans, a complete halt to evictions, etc.).  The feds need to provide direct stimulus to individuals - without delay to means test - to provide people with the resources to weather this storm without breaking quarantine and putting others at risk.  

The food supply chain will continue.  There will still be gas at gas stations.  But a lot of small businesses are going to suffer a lot of hurt, and a lot of workers are going to lose their jobs.  And the way to deal with that is to have the feds provide the resources for those businesses to survive the next couple months without operating, and those workers to have the resources to keep a roof over their head and food on the table.

It seems pretty simple, but unfortunately the country is run by people who you wouldnt hire to be an assistant to your secretary. 

They dont know what they are doing and if they shock the economic system into collapse its going to create an even worse disaster.

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If you're curious, this is the mortality rate for 44k confirmed cases in China, broken down into a number of categories.

2020-03-18.png

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9 hours ago, hogan873 said:

I can't even watch or read the news anymore.  Not just because it's depressing as hell, but also because no one really knows anything.  It's just a bunch of speculation and guesses.  News programs are bringing on "experts", and one will be a doomsayer and speculate we'll be locked down for a year while another will say "if we do this, then we could be okay in two months."  Erring on the side of caution is certainly the way to go, and social distancing will slow the spread and "flatten the curve".  Because the US has so few tests, we don't know, and may never know, how many people are actually infected or have already recovered from it.  That's both bad and good news.  Bad news, obviously, because there are certainly more cases out there.  Good news is that the mortality rate is probably significantly lower than it looks.  I would hazard to guess that there are quite a few people who have had the virus and wrote it off as the flu.  The heightened awareness is good, but let's hope those who are symptomatic but with mild symptoms stay at home and don't overwhelm the hospital system.

Overall, these are very strange times.  If something significant doesn't happen soon with the containment of the virus, many businesses will not survive.  I'm hopeful that in 6-8 weeks there's progress and restrictions are lifted/relaxed.  Only time will tell at this point.

Nice thoughtful post. I agree with your second and third sentences a lot. I don't like reading or listening to news either because of the uncertainty. It seems to me there have been rash decisions after rash decisions with the obvious goal to make us all stay home. I personally don't think it's un-American to question this a bit. We've gone from a carefree country mostly discussing partisan politics this past year and doing whatever the hell we want to do to being told to stay cooped up and don't dare leave your abode.

I happen to question why we can't sit in a coffee shop and work when there always are no more than 5 people in there. While I tend to agree with social distancing nobody knows for sure if sitting in a coffee shop in Lawrence Kansas at 2 p.m. on.a Wednesday is harming me and the world both.

I liked the fact there was a story that Kansans are "outraged" the decision was made to close all schools at all levels. While I may agree with the decision I think some of these decisions are a bit harsh with no public input. Just shut up and do what the experts say.

Forgive me for not handling staying home very well. It's difficult for some of us to deal with even if it may be a selfish attitude.

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People think I am scum for being stircrazy and wanting to go to coffee shops that have 2-3 people total in there or bakeries like Panera to work and spend some time. What about these kids partying in Florida? They don't care about corona. It's like there has to be some middle ground. Surprised there's not more outcry with 1/2 of the country's workforce surely to be laid off soon. Businesses are closed, folks ...https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1240371160078000128?s=20

Edited by greg775

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7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

People think I am scum for being stircrazy and wanting to go to coffee shops that have 2-3 people total in there or bakeries like Panera to work and spend some time. What about these kids partying in Florida? They don't care about corona. It's like there has to be some middle ground. Surprised there's not more outcry with 1/2 of the country's workforce surely to be laid off soon. Businesses are closed, folks ...https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1240371160078000128?s=20

Those kids....are dipshits

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12 minutes ago, greg775 said:

People think I am scum for being stircrazy and wanting to go to coffee shops that have 2-3 people total in there or bakeries like Panera to work and spend some time. What about these kids partying in Florida? They don't care about corona. It's like there has to be some middle ground. Surprised there's not more outcry with 1/2 of the country's workforce surely to be laid off soon. Businesses are closed, folks ...https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1240371160078000128?s=20

 

5 minutes ago, mqr said:

Those kids....are dipshits

They will literally get people killed and they will be the reason that the government will have no choice in a few days but to enforce much more harsh mandatory quarantines.

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