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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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I really wish people would stop discussing the restriction timelines as if it was economy versus lives. That is a totally false choice. The economy is going to be in the crapper for at least weeks and likely months, no matter what. The questions really are A) how many lives do we want to lose and B) when the recovery can actually begin. Once you look at the true question that way, it becomes obvious we need to get serious about the lockdown right the hell now, as an entire nation. That not only will save lives, it will also mean we can get through this and move on faster.

 

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Just now, NorthSideSox72 said:

I really wish people would stop discussing the restriction timelines as if it was economy versus lives. That is a totally false choice. The economy is going to be in the crapper for at least weeks and likely months, no matter what. The questions really are A) how many lives do we want to lose and B) when the recovery can actually begin. Once you look at the true question that way, it becomes obvious we need to get serious about the lockdown right the hell now, as an entire nation. That not only will save lives, it will also mean we can get through this and move on faster.

 

I agree with everything except the move on faster point. We bungled containment, if it was possible at all. Now the goal is to make it last as long as possible. If we do nothing it'll be over quicker, but with orders of magnitude more bodies and all sorts of failed infrastructure. 

I can't fathom how anyone believes the economy can function with people just dropping dead all over the place though. 

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8 minutes ago, mqr said:

I agree with everything except the move on faster point. We bungled containment, if it was possible at all. Now the goal is to make it last as long as possible. If we do nothing it'll be over quicker, but with orders of magnitude more bodies and all sorts of failed infrastructure. 

I can't fathom how anyone believes the economy can function with people just dropping dead all over the place though. 

honestly, no it won't, because even if we did nothing, we don't hit the peak of cases until June or July per the Imperial college study, so the death and destruction option lasts a good 6 months.

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What doesn't make sense to me is a on - off switch to work. I do see returning to work looking more like a wave. Perhaps NY gets back first since they are getting hit hard first. Perhaps by the time we're talking lifting the restrictions, even partially, we will have a better handle on who would be the better choice and have some sort of back to work priority. Young to old. Maybe a test to confirm you had the virus and are now healthy. 

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22 minutes ago, mqr said:

I agree with everything except the move on faster point. We bungled containment, if it was possible at all. Now the goal is to make it last as long as possible. If we do nothing it'll be over quicker, but with orders of magnitude more bodies and all sorts of failed infrastructure. 

I can't fathom how anyone believes the economy can function with people just dropping dead all over the place though. 

 

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

honestly, no it won't, because even if we did nothing, we don't hit the peak of cases until June or July per the Imperial college study, so the death and destruction option lasts a good 6 months.

Sorry, maybe I wasn't totally clear what I meant about getting it over with. Short term nation-wide lockdown will flatten the curve. Not as much as it would have had the federal government acted when it should have, but we are past that now. It will flatten it a lot better than doing nothing. Then once you force the curve down, you can create a long, low tail for the months after, and that is the best case scenario. If we go the Trump method, with a half-ass lockdown and then start opening things back up while the curve is still going up, that will cause a lot more death AND make the economic impact worse.

So, when I say let's get it over with, I mean let's do the lockdown thing right now.

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Any thoughts on the best charities to give to during this crisis?

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Just now, NorthSideSox72 said:

 

Sorry, maybe I wasn't totally clear what I meant about getting it over with. Short term nation-wide lockdown will flatten the curve. Not as much as it would have had the federal government acted when it should have, but we are past that now. It will flatten it a lot better than doing nothing. Then once you force the curve down, you can create a long, low tail for the months after, and that is the best case scenario. If we go the Trump method, with a half-ass lockdown and then start opening things back up while the curve is still going up, that will cause a lot more death AND make the economic impact worse.

So, when I say let's get it over with, I mean let's do the lockdown thing right now.

My friend The Resurrection begins on Easter.

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7 minutes ago, pcq said:

My friend The Resurrection begins on Easter.

If by resurrection you mean of the virus, and if Trump has his way, that's pretty accurate.

 

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13 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Any thoughts on the best charities to give to during this crisis?

Local organizations for sure.  They have less overhead and the money is much more likely to stay local.

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13 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Any thoughts on the best charities to give to during this crisis?

local food banks, generally they prefer cash, would probably be pretty good

 

 

there was some talk of cruise lines being bailed out earlier:

foreign-built boats, registered under foreign flags to avoid US labor and other laws, but will get a cut of that corporate welfare.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Test the underprivileged and people you don’t like?  Sounds like a great plan.  That type of thinking is what led to this...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

Too bad you aren't a long jumper, because this jump to conclusions would be a world record.

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2 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

local food banks, generally they prefer cash, would probably be pretty good

 

 

there was some talk of cruise lines being bailed out earlier:

foreign-built boats, registered under foreign flags to avoid US labor and other laws, but will get a cut of that corporate welfare.

 

 

I've come around to the position that it should depend on the number of American workers first and what country they are registered in second. 

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Just now, Texsox said:

I've come around to the position that it should depend on the number of American workers first and what country they are registered in second. 

Right. And "access to loans" does not mean the forgiven ones. Still talking of thousands of jobs within pretty targeted locales, dumping them off into those cities seems pointless. Just change the tax laws, don't screw over the labor.

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Perhaps rescuing their business should have come with conditions regarding their future operations and treatment of labor, among other things. Or say "oh well, change your registration if you want the loans."

 

 

This is unfortunate for a variety of reasons:

 

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15 minutes ago, bmags said:

Right. And "access to loans" does not mean the forgiven ones. Still talking of thousands of jobs within pretty targeted locales, dumping them off into those cities seems pointless. Just change the tax laws, don't screw over the labor.

Its funny, if we were talking about illegal immigrants getting stimulus money there would be massive outrage about money going out of the country.  These are quite literally foreign companies operating in a matter to evade our laws and regulations, so where is the outrage?

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9 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Perhaps rescuing their business should have come with conditions regarding their future operations and treatment of labor, among other things. Or say "oh well, change your registration if you want the loans."

 

 

This is unfortunate for a variety of reasons:

 

Hopefully their staff cooks can pay their rent with moral righteousness.

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9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Its funny, if we were talking about illegal immigrants getting stimulus money there would be massive outrage about money going out of the country.  These are quite literally foreign companies operating in a matter to evade our laws and regulations, so where is the outrage?

To be quite honest, the government literally shut down their business and said it cannot operate right now. That is the correct move.

So I have a hard time being indignant when we are talking about them getting access to loans from that same government so that they do not go bankrupt and shed thousands of jobs.

Again - if we have an issue with them getting US labor and access to US markets without being US company, it can be solved at a time where millions are not joining unemployment.

The loans to these companies are very likely to be paid back.

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49 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Any thoughts on the best charities to give to during this crisis?

I’ve been looking for employee relief funds. 

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5 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Yikes

 

The actual unemployment rate is already much, much higher

And there are still waves more to come who haven't filed yet.

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

And there are still waves more to come who haven't filed yet.

I'll be in 2 months. 

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

To be quite honest, the government literally shut down their business and said it cannot operate right now. That is the correct move.

So I have a hard time being indignant when we are talking about them getting access to loans from that same government so that they do not go bankrupt and shed thousands of jobs.

Again - if we have an issue with them getting US labor and access to US markets without being US company, it can be solved at a time where millions are not joining unemployment.

The loans to these companies are very likely to be paid back.

Trust me, I get the end game.  I just think the fact that it is essentially illegal immigration being done by a corporation, and the same people who rage over it can't wait to throw cash at them.

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Most of the ship is run by people of all nations. The flags of convenience allow them to operate with the "best for them" employment laws. When I was working for a "twin plant" company in Mexico we have US employees on a Mexico payroll (production primarily) and a US payroll (anyone we could say officed in the US. 

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40 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Yikes

 

The actual unemployment rate is already much, much higher

And the dow keeps going up. The QE game is strong.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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