glangon Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 So the Twins get another injury plagued starter and the so-called experts reckon they are a shoe-in for the AL Central. Meanwhile, Soxtalk aren't happy because we never traded a low end prospect for Joc. TBH, I think they are seeing how Mazara does this season and if that doesn't work, then they'll pick up Joc in free agency next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 If I'm a Boston fan I'm annoyed they are doing this, but let's be real. Would you rather be the crash-boom red sox of the 2010s or the Dodgers of the 2010s? Considering the resources, I'll take the Red sox approach of going for the jugular, as they have shown the ability to rebuild quickly. If the white sox were the red sox, last year would have been competitive because they could have spent stupidly without concern for long-term tie-ups. It's only the repeater taxes that kill them eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, bmags said: What does this mean? Is his contract very incentive laden on IPs? Exactly... https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/american-league/minnesota-twins/ Kenta Maeda rhp 8 years/$25M (2016-23) 8 years/$25M (2016-23) signed by LA Dodgers as a free agent 1/7/16 $1M signing bonus 16-23: $3M annually annual roster bonus: $150,000 for making Opening Day roster $6.5M annually in performance bonuses based on games started: $1M each 15, 20 GS. $1.5M each for 25, 30, 32 GS $3.5M annually in performance bonuses based on innings pitched: $250,000 each for 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190 IP. $750,000 200 IP assignment bonus: $1M with each trade becomes a free agent at contract’s end perks: jersey No. 18. Four round-trip business-class airline tickets between Japan and LA annually. Interpreter. Travel expenses, accommodations, visa costs for a player support staff member acquired by Minnesota in trade from LA Dodgers 2/5/20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said: Mazara has far more faults than Joc so it really isn’t a good argument — can’t hit lefties, doesn’t walk much, can’t play defense well, and couldn’t put up big power numbers at a hitter’s haven (only hit 20 HR each year). Get it over it already. JFC if RH had waited this long to make a RF move you would've been leading the charge to string him up. We have Mazara deal with it . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, bmags said: What does this mean? Is his contract very incentive laden on IPs? Yeah, I posted it earlier and im not going to look it up right now but there was some agreement or contractual thing where he had to start so many games in the regular season, which correlates to his almost completely incentive based contract. He pitched out of the pen a lot for them in the playoffs because whatever the agreement was only applied to the regular season iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, bmags said: What does this mean? Is his contract very incentive laden on IPs? This is why he was mad at the Dodgers. He felt they were holding him back from reaching his incentives.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Yeah I'm thinking Dodgers sign him long term. Either extend in season or next next offseason. Mookie is, without a doubt, hitting FA and testing the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, ptatc said: Better option at what price that is the key factors. Pederson was not an option at the time. He was recently but it's not worth the extra capital. As the original poster said, pederson has flaws as well and you are over valuing him based on what the Sox acquired which has nothing to do with his value to the Angels. So far, the rumored trade looks like this: Dodgers get: INF prospect Luis Rengifo Unnamed prospect from Angels Angels get: OF Joc Pederson OF prospect Andy Pages Unnamed MLB starting pitcher from Dodgers  Steele Walker was a higher rated prospect than Rengifo but we will have to see the rest of the names involved. Also, I think it is you who are greatly undervaluing Joc, not me overvaluing him.  Honestly, it isn’t even close... Mazara’s lifetime WAR:  1.8 Joc’s 2019 WAR:  3.3 Edited February 5, 2020 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bmags said: What does this mean? Is his contract very incentive laden on IPs? Yeah, and starts. Innings Pitched Bonus $250,000 each for: 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 160, 170, 180, 190, 200 Games Started Bonus $1M each for: 15, 20, 25, 30, 32 That's 8 million in incentives that are reachable if he stays healthy + his 3.25 million. It's not expensive by any means, but it's 11-12 million instead of 3 million. Edited February 5, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Mookie is, without a doubt, hitting FA and testing the market. Agree. He has said all along he wants his shot at FA. Also he is from Tennessee so it is not like he has roots in LA. He may love it or he may hate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, glangon said: So the Twins get another injury plagued starter and the so-called experts reckon they are a shoe-in for the AL Central. Meanwhile, Soxtalk aren't happy because we never traded a low end prospect for Joc. TBH, I think they are seeing how Mazara does this season and if that doesn't work, then they'll pick up Joc in free agency next season. Again, the price for Joc was not the same 2 months ago as it was yesterday. The price for Joc + Strip went down because the Dodgers had to shed salary to stay under the cap after acquiring Mookie - belief around the game is the only directive Friedman was given this off-season was to get under the threshold and reset the tax. This opens up the ability to re-sign Mookie next off-season and not pay through the roof in tax. This forced the Dodgers to trade Joc + for less than they wanted because they had to dump the salary to get under the threshold. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 36 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: This doesnt show the red sox are serious about signing him imo. They have released excuse after excuse... PR hits blaming the player and yada yada. Fact is this team could pay 40 million in lux tax and still turn a profit. The Red Sox are a clown show. If the Sox trade a HOF'er in his prime because they dont want to pay him I'll be the first person ripping into this front office. If Moncada keeps raking, this is the likely outcome for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Get it over it already. JFC if RH had waited this long to make a RF move you would've been leading the charge to string him up. We have Mazara deal with it . False.  Better options than Mazara were acquired after the move was made — Ozuna, Castellanos, and now Joc. Edited February 5, 2020 by Moan4Yoan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: So far, the rumored trade looks like this: Dodgers get: INF prospect Luis Rengifo Unnamed prospect from Angels Angels get: OF Joc Pederson OF prospect Andy Pages Unnamed MLB starting pitcher from Dodgers  Steele Walker was a higher rated prospect than Rengifo but we will have to see the rest of the names involved. Also, I think it is you who are greatly undervaluing Joc, not me overvaluing him.  Honestly, it isn’t even close... Mazara’s lifetime WAR:  1.8 Joc’s 2019 WAR:  3.3 Walker is a better prospect than Rengifo - I don't think this is the case of public prospect rankings not being internal team rankings because Rengifo just isn't as good of a prospect as Walker - but Rengifo is closer to the big leagues and an asset to them right now. Walker wouldn't make much sense for someone like the Dodgers. That said, it's all a moot point since the Dodgers clearly took less than they originally asked to shed salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, ron883 said: If Moncada keeps raking, this is the likely outcome for the White Sox. Disagree 100%. If the Sox have a megastar, they'll move everything else before they move him. I trust this organization to keep a player of that caliber - at least their first go around in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: So far, the rumored trade looks like this: Dodgers get: INF prospect Luis Rengifo Unnamed prospect from Angels Angels get: OF Joc Pederson OF prospect Andy Pages Unnamed MLB starting pitcher from Dodgers  Steele Walker was a higher rated prospect than Rengifo but we will have to see the rest of the names involved. Also, I think it is you who are greatly undervaluing Joc, not me overvaluing him.  Honestly, it isn’t even close... Mazara’s lifetime WAR:  1.8 Joc’s 2019 WAR:  3.3 This deal was not available at the time. They weren't trading Perderson until they acquired Betts. This whole scenario is moot. Maybe I am undervaluing him. However, as of the recent deal he wasn't worth the extra capital on top of what the Sox already used to acquire him at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Mookie is, without a doubt, hitting FA and testing the market. Yep. The only way he isn't is if his 12 year, $450 mill (or whatever it was he wanted) is offered. Edited February 5, 2020 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: False.  Better options than Mazara were acquired after the move was made — Ozuna, Castellanos, and now Joc. Again, you missing the point of posts. He isn't saying that there weren't better options. He was saying that if the Sox waited until today to acquire a player would would have been complaining the whole time that they don't have one yet. In your post, Castellanos and Ozuna aren't available today so they don't count. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, ptatc said: Again, you missing the point of posts. He isn't saying that there weren't better options. He was saying that if the Sox waited until today to acquire a player would would have been complaining the whole time that they don't have one yet. In your post, Castellanos and Ozuna aren't available today so they don't count. You are actually missing the point of posts. You quoted him earlier as to why he was bringing up Mazara when the guy HE quoted was comparing Joc and Mazara. He's also saying there were MUCH better, proven, players available after we signed Mazara. Which their were.  Also playing basement GM, the Dodgers surely circled back to the Sox about Joc. Whether we had anything to give up for him right now the Dodgers would want and the Sox would feel comfortable giving up is really the question. You don't not get Joc Pederson because Nomar Mazara is your RF though. He's 3x more valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: What a massive overreaction. Was it a reaction. Yep. Overreaction...debatable. Massive. NO. that is just an attack to get likes. The Dodgers got much better last night. (Sox may have to face them in the WS the next few years still...and Sox lost out on the best "potential" FA and perfect fit for the team) The Twins got better (They always find a way to maximize a guy like Maeda) - But I like that they lost a long-term piece. I simply said it wasn't a great night...Compound that with the fact that nearly everyone on this board liked the fit of Joc, but that doesn't mean the Sox still can't get better either with a Holt or similar type and a nice trade this summer. Enjoy your likes though. Edited February 5, 2020 by EloyJenkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said: You are actually missing the point of posts. You quoted him earlier as to why he was bringing up Mazara when the guy HE quoted was comparing Joc and Mazara. He's also saying there were MUCH better, proven, players available after we signed Mazara. Which their were.  Also playing basement GM, the Dodgers surely circled back to the Sox about Joc. Whether we had anything to give up for him right now the Dodgers would want and the Sox would feel comfortable giving up is really the question. You don't not get Joc Pederson because Nomar Mazara is your RF though. He's 3x more valuable. I guess you and I read things in a totally different context. I didn't read any of them that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said: Was it a reaction. Yep. Overreaction...debatable. Massive. NO. that is just an attack to get likes. The Dodgers got much better last night. (Sox may have to face them in the WS the next few years still...and Sox lost out on the best "potential" FA and perfect fit for the team) The Twins got better (They always find a way to maximize a guy like Maeda) - But I like that they lost a long-term piece. I simply said it wasn't a great night...Compound that with the fact that nearly everyone on this board liked the fit of Joc, but that doesn't mean the Sox still can't get better either with a Holt or similar type and a nice trade this summer. Enjoy your likes though. Have the Soxtalk people been watching the same Twins team for the past three decades as I have been? I honestly don't think they have, because this Twins envy is comical and this projection of the Twins always maximizing talent is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 24 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: False.  Better options than Mazara were acquired after the move was made — Ozuna, Castellanos, and now Joc. Considering you were mad the Six didn't spend "enough" money...I'm going with Cali. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 42 minutes ago, bmags said: If I'm a Boston fan I'm annoyed they are doing this, but let's be real. Would you rather be the crash-boom red sox of the 2010s or the Dodgers of the 2010s? Considering the resources, I'll take the Red sox approach of going for the jugular, as they have shown the ability to rebuild quickly. If the white sox were the red sox, last year would have been competitive because they could have spent stupidly without concern for long-term tie-ups. It's only the repeater taxes that kill them eventually. 100% agree given the results. 2 titles versus 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Maeda isn't really a huge thing imo. He helps their rotation but that's because it was a pretty shit rotation after Berrios. Hes a guy that can barely get through 5 innings in the NL. Donaldson hurts a ton more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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