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Chicago White Sox

McCann Trade Speculation

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1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

A quick look just now and maybe the Rangers but yea.

Robinson Chirinos is there and he wasn't bad for the Astros last year, especially once he got to the Astros his framing numbers weren't bad and he's decent offensively. He didn't get hurt did he? I don't see anything on the Google but if there's a recent ST injury who knows if it would show up.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Robinson Chirinos is there and he wasn't bad for the Astros last year, especially once he got to the Astros his framing numbers weren't bad and he's decent offensively. He didn't get hurt did he? I don't see anything on the Google but if there's a recent ST injury who knows if it would show up.

I was just quickly looking at FGs depth charts for clubs that were at least in theory contending and had less than 2 WAR projected from their starting catcher.  Rangers are one, although it's partially because ZIPS doesn't think the 36 year old Chirinos can catch  more than 90 or so games.

For various reasons I don't think this rumored trade is going to happen.

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7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I was just quickly looking at FGs depth charts for clubs that were at least in theory contending and had less than 2 WAR projected from their starting catcher.  Rangers are one, although it's partially because ZIPS doesn't think the 36 year old Chirinos can catch  more than 90 or so games.

For various reasons I don't think this rumored trade is going to happen.

Yeah, I don't think a team would trade for a backup catcher right now just because a guy might not be able to catch 90 games. If someone got hurt from what they have, or they came out in April and a player was clearly struggling way more than they thought, that would make a team make a move, but hard to see them giving up a player of value for a catcher in March just because they're not sure if theirs will be good enough. 

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9 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I was just quickly looking at FGs depth charts for clubs that were at least in theory contending and had less than 2 WAR projected from their starting catcher.  Rangers are one, although it's partially because ZIPS doesn't think the 36 year old Chirinos can catch  more than 90 or so games.

For various reasons I don't think this rumored trade is going to happen.

Agreed. I think the Sox would only trade him if they got a package back that would be for a full time starter. He's to valuable otherwise.

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6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Agreed. I think the Sox would only trade him if they got a package back that would be for a full time starter. He's to valuable otherwise.

This is my take as well. Just think he has more potential value to the Sox than the lottery ticket you get back for him. 

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I would wait until after the 2020 MLB Draft to see how things go with Grandal and McCann and to see if the Sox can Draft catching prospect  Patrick Bailey.

then the path to the future would be clearer, since Collins will be 26 next season and 30 years old after Grandal's contract ends.

Perhaps McCann is the ideal back-up catcher since he has proven that he can excel if he is not overused and worn down.

Collins has trade value since he is under control for several years. If any team expresses interest in McCann why wouldn't they also inquire on Collins?

Has he become an untouchable? I don't think so.

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2 hours ago, Richie said:

I don't see it happening. I would like it to happen, though. 

McCann has had one really good half of baseball in his career and it was incredibly inflated by his BABIP. Then, he returned to being the #2 caliber catcher that he is. 

He's a poor hitter and okay defensively. 

I would trade him while he has value. 

 

 

 

You just named all of the reasons why he probably doesn't have value. If you know that, you think MLB teams don't? 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

By that logic....why would anyone give up anything of value for McCann? 

The same reason D'Arnaud got a nice contract and Al Avila did too. Catcher is thin position. We have a top 5 catcher, plus serviceable backups (multiple) waiting in the wings.. McCann is expendable to shore up another part of the roster ... ss/2b/rf and bullpen. 

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23 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

The same reason D'Arnaud got a nice contract and Al Avila did too. Catcher is thin position. We have a top 5 catcher, plus serviceable backups (multiple) waiting in the wings.. McCann is expendable to shore up another part of the roster ... ss/2b/rf and bullpen. 

I see where people can be coming from, I just think some aren’t used to having depth at a certain position, and don’t think it’s a bad thing. With the positive leadership we heard about with McCann last season, I just don’t think they get enough for him to make it worth it from the Sox perspective. But I can see both sides. 

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13 minutes ago, Tony said:

I see where people can be coming from, I just think some aren’t used to having depth at a certain position, and don’t think it’s a bad thing. With the positive leadership we heard about with McCann last season, I just don’t think they get enough for him to make it worth it from the Sox perspective. But I can see both sides. 

Right, especially when our pitching staff has so many young players, having two catchers that know what they are talking about is helpful.

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7 hours ago, bmags said:

I do think it sucks for him personality that in his FA year, one year after he gives you an all-star season for pennies, to put him in a serious backup position. I don't want to trade him and I don't think the value we'll get will exceed his value, but it does suck, especially a clubhouse where everyone is getting locked up.

It's a long season...thing can happen.  For all we know ...he might catch 80 games.

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5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

You just named all of the reasons why he probably doesn't have value. If you know that, you think MLB teams don't? 

I agree. 

I suppose that I should have said "IF someone is willing to bite on his production from last season - go ahead and do it."

I don't know if an MLB organization would be willing to deal us anything of value. There's a good chance that you are correct and that nobody would. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's a long season...thing can happen.  For all we know ...he might catch 80 games.

Very true. 

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38 minutes ago, poppysox said:

It's a long season...thing can happen.  For all we know ...he might catch 80 games.

Is there a point where... if we can't trust Zack Collins to be even our 2nd catcher by now - why are we still keeping him in our plans? 

If somebody not named Grandal has to catch 80 games. I don't think it's asking very much of Zack Collins to produce at the minimal level that James McCann has over the course of his career. If he can't do that by age 25? I mean...

Outside of one (BABIP inflated) half of a season in 2019. McCann is a guy with a 2.8 career WAR over 4 1/2 Major League seasons. Who also isn't fantastic behind the plate. 

I suppose that I am just not valuing McCann to the level that a lot of the board seems to be valuing him at. 

I would take it that the reason being is that you want your 2nd catcher to be plus (or at least serviceable) in the defensive department. That is fair. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Richie said:

Is there a point where... if we can't trust Zack Collins to be even our 2nd catcher by now - why are we still keeping him in our plans? 

If somebody not named Grandal has to catch 80 games. I don't think it's asking very much of Zack Collins to produce at the minimal level that James McCann has over the course of his career. If he can't do that by age 25? I mean...

Outside of one (BABIP inflated) half of a season in 2019. McCann is a guy with a 2.8 career WAR over 4 1/2 Major League seasons. Who also isn't fantastic behind the plate. 

I suppose that I am just not valuing McCann to the level that a lot of the board seems to be valuing him at. 

I would take it that the reason being is that you want your 2nd catcher to be plus (or at least serviceable) in the defensive department. That is fair. 

 

 

McCann was the AS catcher last year so I think it's fair to say he is a capable backup at this point.  Catchers tend to develop later so Collins catching everyday at AAA would be my preference.  If someone wants to overpay for McCann I am open to Collins being the backup for sure.  I'm one of those people that thinks the catcher position is super important and depth at catcher is a wonderful luxury to have.

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4 hours ago, poppysox said:

McCann was the AS catcher last year so I think it's fair to say he is a capable backup at this point.  Catchers tend to develop later so Collins catching everyday at AAA would be my preference.  If someone wants to overpay for McCann I am open to Collins being the backup for sure.  I'm one of those people that thinks the catcher position is super important and depth at catcher is a wonderful luxury to have.

We agree on catcher being extremely important. That is for certain. 

Towards "McCann being a capable 2nd catcher" - I would agree. He is a capable 2nd catcher. However, him regressing back to roughly his career norm  (.226/.281/.413) production wise at the plate in the 2nd half should serve as a huge red flag. I tend to believe that he pulled that 1st half totally out of his ass. I think he is a capable, but very expendable, 2nd catcher. 

To be clear - I am totally fine with keeping him aboard. Young staff, doesn't hurt to have two veterans like Grandal/McCann.

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I would keep him. I think they would get garbage back for him. If they keep him, between time off for Grandal, and the possibility of Grandal playing a little 1B here and there - he could easily catch 50-60 games.

Plus, if the Sox trade him and Grandal gets hurt, then we're really screwed. There's nothing competent to hold down the fort.

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18 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Honest question has Cishek broke any story as either the 1st guy to report a rumor or has he confirmed any deal before any national guy did?  I'm not saying he doesn't have sources but his source could also just be feeding him stuff to see what sticks with the fans, or his source could have a feel for certain things in the org and not others.  Just curious.

Onto James: Absolutely zero reason to trade a 2 WAR backup catcher for relief help in March.  Especially when you've got half a dozen arms in camp that already look capable of a 6th or 7th inning role.  Who know bullpens are wild the Sox might have a strong pen this year and will have better use of McCann for 40 games as a strong backup than another swingman type.  You're not getting a 8th/9th inning guy of any quality for him anyways.

Trade him if they must for a low level prospect and international money, After all Sox might have the inside track on a few more guys but not have the IFA funds to get them.

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I'm leaning towards keeping him unless we get a really intriguing offer. 

Collins needs to catch everyday for another year.  Let him do that in triple A so that he can be a great backup option next year.

They need to DH Grandal a lot this year to keep him fresh for our second half push.  McCann will get his playing time.   

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2 minutes ago, black jack said:

I'm leaning towards keeping him unless we get a really intriguing offer. 

Collins needs to catch everyday for another year.  Let him do that in triple A so that he can be a great backup option next year.

They need to DH Grandal a lot this year to keep him fresh for our second half push.  McCann will get his playing time.   

Assumung Abreu and Edwin are having normal years, why are you benching either one a lot?

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12 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Assumung Abreu and Edwin are having normal years, why are you benching either one a lot?

Great point.  I forgot we have EE (lol).

Admittedly my desire to DH him stems from other poster's information.  Everyone is saying he wears out in the second half.  DHing him keep his legs fresh and the bat warm.

Edited by black jack

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28 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Assumung Abreu and Edwin are having normal years, why are you benching either one a lot?

You could catch Grandal for 90 games and DH him for 50/60 games. Abreu and EE could still play 130/140 games each. 

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Are the Sox legit contenders this year or 2021? If they feel their pitching health is strong enough...you keep him and try and grab a wild card and a lottery ticket. If they think Kopech and Rodon are not quite there...trade him and see what you have in Collins. This is the best approach for the future imo.

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1 hour ago, black jack said:

I'm leaning towards keeping him unless we get a really intriguing offer. 

Collins needs to catch everyday for another year.  Let him do that in triple A so that he can be a great backup option next year.

They need to DH Grandal a lot this year to keep him fresh for our second half push.  McCann will get his playing time.   

This is how I see it as well.

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15 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Are the Sox legit contenders this year or 2021? If they feel their pitching health is strong enough...you keep him and try and grab a wild card and a lottery ticket. If they think Kopech and Rodon are not quite there...trade him and see what you have in Collins. This is the best approach for the future imo.

This is the question that Hahn keeps asking in the interviews when it comes to further additions.   We just don't know yet and have to see how far away they are the next few months.

 

should be veeeeeery interesting around here if they come out like a house on fire through May

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