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George Floyd Thread

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16 hours ago, greg775 said:

Well, reparations is going to be a big point in the upcoming election. Biden is in favor; I would guess Trump for sure is not. If Joe B as expected, wins, he has to come up with an amount. I say $1 million per single African American person and $1 million per family "should" end a lot of this strife. That's a lot of money. And a very generous amount for reparations. Plus my suggestion about having Joe appoint an African American police watchdog or Police Observer if you will, who has an office next to the police chief and has the same powers as chief. We need solutions and I have two. I would also assume their would be Native American reparations. If so, the same amount of money. $1 million per Native American single person or $1 million per family unit.

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

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17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you actually think systematic oppression doesn’t exist?

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

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2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

More cpd violence

 

 

I spoke too soon earlier in the thread about CPD being a bit more reserved than other cities. Ridiculous. 

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3 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

I suggest you watch this video with an open mind. 

 

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17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you actually think systematic oppression doesn’t exist?

Can't help the ignorant unfortunately. 

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Just now, SoxAce said:

Can't help the ignorant unfortunately. 

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

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6 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

I suggest you watch this video with an open mind. 

 

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

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The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

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21 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

It doesn’t say that at all, but again...this is part of the problem. Everyone still wants to play politics, has already made up their mind about everything. No one likes being told “Hey asshole, shut up and just listen for a while, because you really don’t know what you’re talking about and could be educated on a subject you may think you know about, but really don’t.” 
 

He asked you to watch a 4 minute video, probably about the time it took you to write a response to said video...that you didn’t watch. 

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27 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

Also, to your point on “feeling bad as a white person” no, I don’t “feel bad” about the success I’ve had in my life because I know that I worked incredibly hard for what I achieved. But I can do two things at once. I can be proud of my success and also fully acknowledge there are those that weren't afforded the same opportunities I was because of my upbringing and the culture I grew up in, not to mention my skin color. That exists and I would be wrong to think otherwise. And I fully support movements that allow those less fortunate to have the same opportunities I had.
 

I’ll put it another way. I would be confident I could beat out a group of job candidates for a potential opening because I’m the right guy for the job, I could do it the best. But I want to live in a world where everyone applying for that job was on equal footing and didn’t have “invisible” hurdles in their way because of their name or financial situation. 

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32 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No, thanks No interest in being shamed by a "progressive media company". It would be like me sending you Breitbart articles and telling you to become enlightened. 

My guess is it tells me that as a white person who had parents that got an education and worked hard in order to buy a house in the suburbs, I should feel guilty, as there's someone my age in the Queensbridge projects who didn't have those same advantages. And all of it stems from whites enslaving blacks, stealing their money, incarcerating them, etc. 

 

Again, the message is don't bother trying if you're black. Too many invisible forces against you. Continue to have children out of wedlock, work service-industry jobs, live in section 8 housing, and bring your WIC checks to the bodega. 

I truly feel for a black kid growing up who would be forced to listen to that message. He/she would be better off living on Mars. 

 

ok

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25 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

Make the forces smaller overall, rearrange how you think about police (less "broken windows"), and cut back on the militaristic equipment, swat teams, and warrior types. 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-problem-with-broken-windows-policing/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion?sref=JTuIXQSO

 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Make the forces smaller overall, rearrange how you think about police (less "broken windows"), and cut back on the militaristic equipment, swat teams, and warrior types. 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-problem-with-broken-windows-policing/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/america-s-policing-budget-has-nearly-tripled-to-115-billion?sref=JTuIXQSO

 

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

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1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

Trump has run the biggest non-recession deficits in history even before Covid.  Those voters didn't give a shit until they started talking about social security and Medicare. 

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1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

Willfully ignoring what is happening around you is exactly that. Ignorance. 

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1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

You've been hurt haven't you? 

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1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

You can call me ignorant all you want.

Walk around feeling guilty all your life and see where that gets you. 

As a man who is of African American descent.. I don't need to, but thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Butter Parque said:

No, I don't.

It's a crutch for people looking for excuses for why they don't succeed.

A black man dies at the hands of a cop and all of a sudden it's some sort of symbol for everything bad in the world. The facts don't bare any of that out. 

Daniel Shaver died at the hands of a police officer in the most disturbing way I've ever seen with my own eyes. I'm assuming no one on here gave a damn at the time. There certainly weren't any Puma stores looted as a result of it. 

Excuses for why people don’t succeed?  Come on man, everyone is a victim to their environment & upbringing and saying otherwise is ridiculous.  If can’t see that the average African American is at a huge disadvantage from the get-go in modern society then you are simply ignoring reality.

Also, I’ve seen the Daniel Shaver video and I tell people all the time how fucked up that was.  But that doesn’t take away from the fact that blacks are the victim of police brutality far too often.  If you can’t see that, then you are purposely being ignorant to the issue at hand.

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22 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

You know what's really telling...

Walmart has pulled all guns and ammunition off their shelves in response to the protesting and rioting that has been happening. 

The website to apply for a FOID card is down for maintenance. 

There are white supremacists marching the streets hurting people of color and we can't even arm ourselves. 

Every time a white kid shoots up a school, Walmart has never even considered pulling their guns off the shelves. 

Walmart hasn't sold ammunition for a couple years now. 

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On 6/3/2020 at 2:57 PM, southsideirish71 said:
  • Ban chokeholds and strangleholds  Fine no problem

  • Require de-escalation De-escalation is fine as long as its not an imminent threat. 

  • Require warning before shooting  Well this depends on the situation.  I am not going to wait 20 minutes and banter with the suspect if he is openly shooting at me, or pointing a firearm at me, or is branishing a deadly weapon and moving toward me.  This is not the old west where I am going to quick draw mcgraw him.  There is a difference between pulling a weapon and warning a suspect to de-escalate.  There is another where I am not going to wait to see if he shoots me first before I return fire.  

  • Exhaust all other means before shooting  Well this depends on the situation. If you feel your life or another life is in danger waiting for the person to be talked off a ledge is pointless. I agree in principle this is good, and most officers never want to discharge their weapon.  

  • Duty to intervene and stop excessive force by other officers Fine no problem

  • Ban shooting at moving vehicle A car can be a weapon.  There is a difference between someone shooting at a fleeing car vs a car charging at you.  So if the point is to stop shooting a fleeing vehicle sure.  If its a car charging at me.  Sorry I am shooting the bad guy and not telling them well I didnt shoot him but send my widow some flowers.

  • Require use-of-force continuum This is fine.  But once again.  This cant turn into what LA was proposing.  I see a bad guy with a gun.  The police should leave to descalate the situation.  Well great.  Until the bad guy shoots your family member and you find out that a cop took off because the bad guy had a gun.  

  • Require comprehensive reporting each time an officer uses forces or threatens to do so This already pretty much happens

Rather than "come at you" with suggestions, I thought I'd pick your brain, if you'd endulge me.

 

1. What did you think of the incident that caused George Floyd's death?

2. As a LE officer, do you think that excessive force incidents are too prevalent in the US? (Particularly with respect to certain groups?)

3. As a LE Officer, do you believe that there is room for changes in that industry? Why or why not?

 

I make no suppositions about you nor any judgements; I'm just interested in your view.

 

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1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

Pick just the Top 5-10% out of the Academy, and pay them 50% more.   Why shouldn’t some of our brightest Americans want to be policemen, serve in the Armed Forces or be public school teachers?   Imagine a country where 93% of those who wanted to be police officers or teachers were rejected...and they all willingly were part of (government subsidized) five year education programs available at only the best schools in the country?   Imagine how different the ultimate results would look.

 

Finland is going through a deep economic crisis, and there are financial pressures on schools, just as there are on the rest of the public sector. But the five-year master’s degree for primary school teachers is not in question. Competition is fierce – only 7% of applicants in Helsinki were accepted this year, leaving more than 1,400 disappointed.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/17/highly-trained-respected-and-free-why-finlands-teachers-are-different

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2 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Pay more, too. It's a highly stressful and dangerous job. You can earn much more with a degree while not risking your life every day. Very few intelligent people want that job.

I was trying to find you the money to pay them more.

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6 hours ago, Butter Parque said:

This is insanity. A presidential candidate who supports this type of legislation would lose in a Goldwater/Mondale fashion. 

What's insane (and could hurt Biden a bit but that's besides the point) is if his plan for reparations is some silly amount of money like 2500 bucks per family. That would be putting a low low low price on the horror of slavery, which reparations are meant to "help" repair bad feelings toward slavery. How much will Joe suggest? 10,000? 

My plan is $1 million per single person and $1 million per family which would (if possible and not ruining the economy) pretty much make every African American family at least middle class or better. My plan makes a difference in all this unrest, or it SHOULD. That's a large amount; a fair amount. Get the top 5 percent wealthy people to contribute mightily to the fund. Some donations like Mike Jordan's amazing donation would help cut into the cost (not Mike, however, as it's not his duty to address reparations of course).

What's insanity as you say, will be some meaningless amount of money regarding reparations. I guess Biden could promise free college education and med school for all African Americans and some things like that re. reparations, too. I'm trying to come up with meaningful change, not just talk. I get criticized a lot but my two original suggestions aren't drawing much commentary.

Edited by greg775
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6 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The "defund the police" idea is just insane. Honestly, just take a look at the job. They don't get paid that well, don't have much opportunity to advance. The job is extremely dangerous and stressful. They get harassed often and have to make difficult decisions, all while being under a microscope. The type of situations they can be put in WILL give them PTSD. The suicide and addiction rates are understandably high for the job.

 

Who wants to do that job given the lousy pay? Obviously, people who want the power. Defunding the police and paying them less will only make the problem worse. You'll get even shittier, more corrupt people going for the job. It needs to be a more desirable job with better pay. Make it more difficult to become a cop. Higher education requirements. People make similar arguments for teachers. Pay them better so it becomes a more desirable occupation and you attract the cream of the crop. Train them better too, obviously.

There is serious discussion in Minnesota (Omar tweet, city council) to abolish police department in Minneapolis. If this happens, maybe we really are at the start of Armageddon. A ruthless, bad political figure in charge (Trump), a horrid disease (covid), fire (riots) and total anarchy (if police forces are dismantled; it would be The Purge every single nite with no cops).

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