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George Floyd Thread

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

“At it’s heart, the dissolution is just getting out of the union contract. There will still be police, but clearly they intend to think hard about which jobs belong to police and which belong with other depts.

Newark moved most of their cops to beat cops, and hired civilians as investigators among other changes and was successful.

Do police as formed need to do road safety policing? Crowd control? Should domestic disputes sit elsewhere? Police responsibilities have been stretched (as have teachers) as a catch all. It’s possible to rethink that.”


Yet why do I have a feeling Fox News is warning everyone that all police departments in US will cease to exist on Monday morning...and that the NRA will dutifully encourage all their followers to arm themselves to the hilt in order to protect their 2nd Amendment rights???

 

 

I hope your boldfaced copy there is correct. I am fearful of anarchy. I'm an anti-looting guy.

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46 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Thanks Tex. With the abolition of police forces soon, do you think that will cause a rise in the looting, etc? With no cops, I would think there would be a rash of carjackings, home invasions, muggings, and of course, bank robberies and the like. With many states allowing you to carry a gun, it seems now a no brainer. Don't these adult government officials who are disbanding the police forces read about mob mentality and human nature? Without police and jails, good luck. There will be no way to have sports without cops. Can u imagine an NBA game and there's a bad call? If there are no cops, just charge the ref or after Game One of a playoff series kidnap the other team's star player. I'm sure even as we speak some gang leaders or terrorist wannabees are plotting their new lives as millionaires. Pretty easy to wreak havoc and make $$ when there are no pesky cops to stop you.

Everybody might like a world without cops but the reality of the situation is ...

This is just an all-timer from greg. Not because of how stupid it is, but because I'm pretty sure he is just basing the idea off "Celtic Pride"

MV5BNjg4NThhNjItZmQzZi00ZDVlLWI5YzgtODY0

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Everyone should watch this. It sums up my feelings on everything that has been going on. I couldn’t have said it better myself, especially the ending. 
 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Tony said:

This is just an all-timer from greg. Not because of how stupid it is, but because I'm pretty sure he is just basing the idea off "Celtic Pride"

MV5BNjg4NThhNjItZmQzZi00ZDVlLWI5YzgtODY0

MLB fans will act much more civilized.

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1 hour ago, Joshua Strong said:

Everyone should watch this. It sums up my feelings on everything that has been going on. I couldn’t have said it better myself, especially the ending. 
 

 

 

Last Week Tonight closed with this clip last night, incredibly powerful. 

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9 hours ago, Tony said:

This is just an all-timer from greg. Not because of how stupid it is, but because I'm pretty sure he is just basing the idea off "Celtic Pride"

MV5BNjg4NThhNjItZmQzZi00ZDVlLWI5YzgtODY0

If only there were people who for a meager amount of pay would go out and gather new information on various topics that may be of interest to a subscriber base of readers who would then pay for the rights to read these new bits information (have to brainstorm on a name for this idea, the name should be short, catchy and to the point) so that its readers wouldn't have to suffer in ignorance.  Sure some of this new information would be self-serving and maybe even lies, but there would be enough of the good new information out there that most people should be able to sort between the good information and the bad new information.  That way people wouldn't have to suffer through ignorance of a specific topic of interest because all of this new information they would gather would complete an adequate circle of knowledge on the specific topic so as to give them enough education on the topic to enlighten them on it with all of this new information.  The new information could even flow into our modern technological apparatuses so that people would have their new information almost instantly.  Call it a new information expressway if you like.

I'd bet there would even be people who chose to make careers out of gathering and delivering this new information to the masses, and maybe even become well respected members of their local communities for delivering this new information in an understandable format to the masses, thus liberating them from their ignorance.

I know my idea for "new information" gathering people is probably a pipe dream, but maybe with all of our advances in technology we can make this happen.  Let's go 2020!

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3 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Everyone should watch this. It sums up my feelings on everything that has been going on. I couldn’t have said it better myself, especially the ending. 
 

 

 

Gave me chills down my spine.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm also an AA male and I sometimes want to believe if I just do what white people do all will be well (aka the bootstrap myth).  It simply doesn't matter, they will always see us as inferior and I have come to accept that.  Racism today isn't at overt as it was back then but it's absolutely still running rampant in this country.  I sometimes forget about the black Wall Street in Tulsa and Rosewood.  Their destruction just proves that white people never wanted blacks to integrate, they just wanted black's free labor and to boot them out after building their "freedom utopia".  I am actually surprised they didn't just genocide the blacks after they were done with them.  I'm sure some wish they had.

Edited by pettie4sox

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1 hour ago, pettie4sox said:

Gave me chills down my spine.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm also an AA male and I sometimes want to believe if I just do what white people do all will be well (aka the bootstrap myth).  It simply doesn't matter, they will always see us as inferior and I have come to accept that.  Racism today isn't at overt as it was back then but it's absolutely still running rampant in this country.  I sometimes forget about the black Wall Street in Tulsa and Rosewood.  Their destruction just proves that white people never wanted blacks to integrate, they just wanted black's free labor and to boot them out after building their "freedom utopia".  I am actually surprised they didn't just genocide the blacks after they were done with them.  I'm sure some wish they had.

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If only there were people who for a meager amount of pay would go out and gather new information on various topics that may be of interest to a subscriber base of readers who would then pay for the rights to read these new bits information (have to brainstorm on a name for this idea, the name should be short, catchy and to the point) so that its readers wouldn't have to suffer in ignorance.  Sure some of this new information would be self-serving and maybe even lies, but there would be enough of the good new information out there that most people should be able to sort between the good information and the bad new information.  That way people wouldn't have to suffer through ignorance of a specific topic of interest because all of this new information they would gather would complete an adequate circle of knowledge on the specific topic so as to give them enough education on the topic to enlighten them on it with all of this new information.  The new information could even flow into our modern technological apparatuses so that people would have their new information almost instantly.  Call it a new information expressway if you like.

I'd bet there would even be people who chose to make careers out of gathering and delivering this new information to the masses, and maybe even become well respected members of their local communities for delivering this new information in an understandable format to the masses, thus liberating them from their ignorance.

I know my idea for "new information" gathering people is probably a pipe dream, but maybe with all of our advances in technology we can make this happen.  Let's go 2020!

Super elitist to act like celtic pride isn't an information source.

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12 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

Disqualifying other people's life experiences is one heck of a limb to climb out on.

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13 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

And how would YOU know, seeing as you won’t watch content that doesn’t fit the narrative you want to paint for yourself? 

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8 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

I will be honest, I'm an exception.  I was raised in a pearly white central Illinois city.  At the time of my youth both my parents were together so I had a father figure growing up.  I had a good education, went to college and graduate school and received my degrees.  I am not a mind reader so I don't know about the list of questions you stated, but from my own personal experiences I can tell you it's more prevalent than you think.  I haven't been stopped by cops too much in my life but that's because I'm very incognito and avoid them whenever possible.  I have had white people make numerous racist comments in front of me but exclude me because I "act" white...  I integrated so well, they thought I was one of them for a second.  I do not think all white people are racists.  I think it's ingrained into the fabric of this country.  We had a civil war in this country to end slavery that is still talked about today as some type of states right trope which is utter BS.  Racism isn't as overtly malicious as you think, it's a thought process.  The purse clutchers, the people who watch you as enter their neighborhood, the people following you when you enter a retail space, and the cops who ask you if you're in the "right" predominantly white neighborhood late at night.  White people should just do their best not to diminish the experience of black people.  There are bad apples of all races but not all black people are trying to blame "whitey" for their problems.  I think some people want to defend their country no matter what and assume they got to where they were by hard work and being honorable.  It could not be further from the truth.  Understanding one's history is important so that we can do better than our predaccessors and actually progress society.

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So here's an example of institutional racism, I never heard of the Tulsa or Rosewood incidents.  I had no idea that a black community was building wealth in Tulsa in 1920.  This was for sure not included in any of my history classes, which were at a fantastic school system.  I'm ashamed I've never heard of these before today.

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1 minute ago, bigruss said:

So here's an example of institutional racism, I never heard of the Tulsa or Rosewood incidents.  I had no idea that a black community was building wealth in Tulsa in 1920.  This was for sure not included in any of my history classes, which were at a fantastic school system.  I'm ashamed I've never heard of these before today.

FWIW the history books paint the native Americans as if they agreed to give the pale skin their lands. :whichway

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Just now, bigruss said:

So here's an example of institutional racism, I never heard of the Tulsa or Rosewood incidents.  I had no idea that a black community was building wealth in Tulsa in 1920.  This was for sure not included in any of my history classes, which were at a fantastic school system.  I'm ashamed I've never heard of these before today.

So much of my civil war history I learned in western suburbs of illinois was lost cause history. We certainly had a pretty in-depth dive into civil rights era, and perhaps its because many teachers were around for it. But Civil War thru WW1 was very undercovered.

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36 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

Do you think public city schools offer the same quality of education that affluent suburban schools do?  Do you think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two?   Do you think it’s easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty?

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You can make a partial analogy to the way we identify carcinogens.

 

We can't prove that any one case of lung cancer was caused by tobacco use. But what we can do is look at all of the data of lung cancer prevalence in different populations and come to a solid conclusion about the carcinogenic effects of smoking.

Similarly, we can look at things like studies where headshots are or aren't included and find discriminatory effects when they are. We can look at studies that send out identical resumes with only different names like Joe Smith or Jamaal Griffith and see substantially different interview scheduling results.  Many, many studies of these sorts of effects are out there.

 

And then we can look at the public policy discriminations that are well documented. Josh linked that piece from Ta-Nehisi Coates earlier in the thread where he examined deeply discriminatory housing and education policy in the 20th century. 

 

None of this is new or hidden. You just have to be willing to listen to what reality is telling you.

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4 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

Gave me chills down my spine.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm also an AA male and I sometimes want to believe if I just do what white people do all will be well (aka the bootstrap myth).  It simply doesn't matter, they will always see us as inferior and I have come to accept that.  Racism today isn't at overt as it was back then but it's absolutely still running rampant in this country.  I sometimes forget about the black Wall Street in Tulsa and Rosewood.  Their destruction just proves that white people never wanted blacks to integrate, they just wanted black's free labor and to boot them out after building their "freedom utopia".  I am actually surprised they didn't just genocide the blacks after they were done with them.  I'm sure some wish they had. 

Like it or not there are many whites on your side and majority support among millennials. I cannot address your suspicions drawn from your own experience. There was also an oil rich tribe in OK that was exterminated. In Texas schools they describe slaves as migrant workers. It goes on.

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2 hours ago, bigruss said:

So here's an example of institutional racism, I never heard of the Tulsa or Rosewood incidents.  I had no idea that a black community was building wealth in Tulsa in 1920.  This was for sure not included in any of my history classes, which were at a fantastic school system.  I'm ashamed I've never heard of these before today.

Did you know that in 1985 the city of Philadelphia literally dropped a bomb on one of its African American communities?

M6SOHHL6GNB6BMLZAKYX6CXSUE.jpg 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move

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18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Did you know that in 1985 the city of Philadelphia literally dropped a bomb on one of its African American communities?

M6SOHHL6GNB6BMLZAKYX6CXSUE.jpg 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/8/8/20747198/philadelphia-bombing-1985-move

I only read that just a few days ago...another WTF moment in this country's history.

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4 hours ago, Butter Parque said:

You make an argument that no one could ever debate. Basically saying that there's racism everywhere, but you just wont see it in front of your eyes doesn't do anything for anyone. Were you deprived of an education because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Were you deprived of a job because of your skin color? If so, how do you know? Who was hired in your stead and please advise on the proof that the hiring manager is indeed a racist. Were you harassed by the police because you were black? if so, how do you know? As a white man, I was pulled over on a highway for having a parking permit hanging on my rear-view mirror. Maybe cops are just jerks? I was also pulled over (guns drawn) for driving around an area that is apparently known for "heavy drug activity". That was the reason provided to me. I was merely looking for a school where I had to take an exam the next morning. Again, cops can be jerks. 

https://www.clearinghouse.net/chDocs/public/FH-NY-0024-0034.pdf
Well, we’ve literally got thousands of examples in housing/redlining.

We’ve got a ton of statistics in databases around the country on racial profiling and disproportionality in sentencing.

The discrepancy in penalties between crack and powdered forms of cocaine.

The Trail of Tears/Wounded Knee Massacre

The Chinese Exclusion Act

The Dred Scott Decision (or simply counting slaves as 3/5th’s of a person in the US Constitution)

Japanese-American Internment Camps like Manzanar during World War Two (particularly enjoy visiting all those German camps in the eastern half of the US.)

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3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you think public city schools offer the same quality of education that affluent suburban schools do?  Do you think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two?   Do you think it’s easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty?

Generally, i think the public school system is awful in the US. What i learned in school didn't help in college. What i learned in college didn't help in the working world. Push through and make do.

Do I think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two? Hmmm, no I don't think so. Government statistics bare that out. It's why I've been reiterating on here time and time again that FAMILY is what separates the black community from their demographical peers. Perhaps having 5 kids with 3 dads is a bad idea...Perhaps having ANY kids when you have no education and you're already on public assistance is a bad idea...It's called personal responsibility. Sadly, the caucasians now seem to be adopting this suicidal practice. If you want your kid to have a legitimate chance at a quality life you should have a spouse and if needed, both should have careers before that kid becomes a thought. 

 

Do I think it's easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty? Do you really need me to answer that? You know what stops the perpetual cycle of poverty? Two parents...placing an emphasis on education...raising those kids to be respectful to anyone they interact with...not allowing your 13 year old to be out at all hours of the night. All of those things can help in producing a child who's got a shot to make it in life. We all require some good luck and good timing at various moment sin or life, but if you have those pillars in place, your odds increase substantially.  

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32 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Generally, i think the public school system is awful in the US. What i learned in school didn't help in college. What i learned in college didn't help in the working world. Push through and make do.

Do I think growing up with one parent is just as effective for your long-term success as growing up with two? Hmmm, no I don't think so. Government statistics bare that out. It's why I've been reiterating on here time and time again that FAMILY is what separates the black community from their demographical peers. Perhaps having 5 kids with 3 dads is a bad idea...Perhaps having ANY kids when you have no education and you're already on public assistance is a bad idea...It's called personal responsibility. Sadly, the caucasians now seem to be adopting this suicidal practice. If you want your kid to have a legitimate chance at a quality life you should have a spouse and if needed, both should have careers before that kid becomes a thought. 

 

Do I think it's easier to get ahead in life if you come from money or poverty? Do you really need me to answer that? You know what stops the perpetual cycle of poverty? Two parents...placing an emphasis on education...raising those kids to be respectful to anyone they interact with...not allowing your 13 year old to be out at all hours of the night. All of those things can help in producing a child who's got a shot to make it in life. We all require some good luck and good timing at various moment sin or life, but if you have those pillars in place, your odds increase substantially.  

https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by-race#detailed/1/any/false/37,871,870,573,869,36,868,867,133,38/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431
 

The data (single parent households by ethnicity) hasn’t changed much in the last decade.   White single mothers remaining at 24%.  For all ethnic groups, +/- 2%, basically.

There are many other factors at play, but this is where you see a strong correlation with standardized test scores (with Asian families far and away leading the pack).

That said, many Asian kids (both inside and outside the US) are subjected to both psychological and physical abuse (a few of my Vietnamese born students in Kansas City remarked that anything less than an A in math would result in a whipping)...and there’s certainly a much higher incidence of suicide as well, with heightened study pressure being cited as one of the primary factors.

 

And it’s easy to point out problems.  But what are the solutions?  It certainly won’t end up being “defund the police/let looters and lawlessness run free,” but that requires a much more sophisticated, nuanced conversation.  The problem here is that BOTH sides have to be willing to communicate and make compromises.   As soon as the President and leaders in the GOP (besides Mitt Romney standing alone) acknowledge there actually is a systemic societal problem, not just about policing, but massive wealth-economic inequality across the board, maybe there can be some forward progress.  Or they can continue to refuse to listen at their own electoral peril.

 

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