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41 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

So you don't think the 1000s of officers caught on 100s of videos attacking unarmed protesters and escalating situations are a huge part of the problem? 

1000s of officers caught on video?  1000s really?  I think you misplaced a zero.   Cops doing stupid things, I just said up in my post fire them and if its criminal prosecute them.  But I think its a bridge two far to say lets defund police.  Because if you think that ditching the police is a good thing then you have lost your mind.  If there are no gatekeepers eventually it becomes a free-for-all.  Look at the looting situation.  This is happening as coordinated attacks that are benefiting on the police being stretched thin reacting to protests.  Do you think that each of these people doing this would do the same thing if there was a real possibility that they would be imprisoned for the crime.  Hell I watched some lady take 20 minutes loading a bed and box spring on channel 7 news the one night. She didnt have a worry in the world.  She had time to ask her fellow looters to help her get the stuff on her car. Why did this happen? Because the police were not there.  So let me riddle you one back.  Is it okay to shoot police because a few officers, not thousands, are taking things too far.  

Edited by southsideirish71
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43 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

1000s of officers caught on video?  1000s really?  I think you misplaced a zero.   Cops doing stupid things, I just said up in my post fire them and if its criminal prosecute them.  But I think its a bridge two far to say lets defund police.  Because if you think that ditching the police is a good thing then you have lost your mind.  If there are no gatekeepers eventually it becomes a free-for-all.  Look at the looting situation.  This is happening as coordinated attacks that are benefiting on the police being stretched thin reacting to protests.  Do you think that each of these people doing this would do the same thing if there was a real possibility that they would be imprisoned for the crime.  Hell I watched some lady take 20 minutes loading a bed and box springs on channel 7 news the one night.  Like she was going garbage picking.  Why did this happen? Because the police were not there.  So let me riddle you one back.  Is it okay to shoot police because a few officers, not thousands, are taking things too far.  

Yes, thousands. We have hundreds of incidents on film from just the past few days. In many incidents, it's full riot lines of cops launching assaults on protesters. They are not being held accountable. We have nation-wide protests in hundreds of cities because of the actions of the police and their ever-escalating responses to protests, whether they stay completely peaceful or not. Or in many cases, random people not even involved in protests, some simply standing in their own front doors or walking home from work. The coordinated attacks on our fellow citizens are coming from the people wearing badges.

 

Here's one decently long thread of police violence:

Here's an even longer, ongoing one documenting nearly two hundred separate incidents in the past few days:

And here's an idea of some of the good things we could do to actually help people if we reduced police funding:

 

 

 

edit: instead, here is how municipal budgets often go:

 

Edited by StrangeSox
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26 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

1000s of officers caught on video?  1000s really?  I think you misplaced a zero.   Cops doing stupid things, I just said up in my post fire them and if its criminal prosecute them.  But I think its a bridge two far to say lets defund police.  Because if you think that ditching the police is a good thing then you have lost your mind.  If there are no gatekeepers eventually it becomes a free-for-all.  Look at the looting situation.  This is happening as coordinated attacks that are benefiting on the police being stretched thin reacting to protests.  Do you think that each of these people doing this would do the same thing if there was a real possibility that they would be imprisoned for the crime.  Hell I watched some lady take 20 minutes loading a bed and box spring on channel 7 news the one night. She didnt have a worry in the world.  She had time to ask her fellow looters to help her get the stuff on her car. Why did this happen? Because the police were not there.  So let me riddle you one back.  Is it okay to shoot police because a few officers, not thousands, are taking things too far.  

All you have to do is scroll up just a few posts to the post that StrangeSox made. 

That's a FRACTION of the videos I've seen over the past week. I could spend hours posting stuff I've seen. They are attacking people walking home with groceries that weren't even part of the protesting/looting/rioting, reporters, medical personnel, children, people simply standing on their front porch or balcony... So no, I don't think 1000s is an underestimate.

I don't think de-funding them means there would be less of them. It just means they don't all need to be equipped like militarily soldiers. Maybe that money would be better spent on better training? Teach them how to deescalate situations instead of doing the exact opposite?

And no, it's not okay to shoot police because thousands are taking things too far. But something needs to be done. They don't even care that they are being filmed doing the things they are doing because they know there will be no consequences for their actions.

 

Edited by Iwritecode
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I want to issue a very specific warning for everyone in this thread (not saying any issue right now - just making a stringent warning). I want to ensure EVERYONE is RESPECTFUL to one another while discussing this matter. All items on this topic, stay within this thread.  This is a distinct thread for those who want to discuss within our community what is going on out there, your views, your beliefs, your questions for others, etc.  But treat one another with respect.    

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The rubber bullets may not kill you, although they have. They can really mess you up. Dale Murphy''s son got one right by his eye. That will leave a mark. All for peaceful protesting.  There is also a picture of a young woman's leg with 4 or 5 wounds. It was the back of the leg indicating she was moving away, but rubber bullets anyway . That was at the precursor for the Trump photo op.

Edited by Dick Allen

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19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They just teargassed a public protest for a Presidential photo-op.

Again?

I think that embarrassing situation with Mark Esper, JCS Milley now backtracking....religious leaders from the St. John’s church and Pope John Paul II shrine piling on, it will end up as the turning point in all of this instead of an iconic “Law and Order 1968/2020” rerun.

Tear gas (which they’re still denying, incredibly), smoke, pepper spray, flash bangs, rubber bullets, mounted cavalry...it was just WAY too much.  Too calculated on the part of Barr (who accused the crowd of throwing water bottles when there’s zero evidence.)

Young and diverse crowds are realizing the power in keeping the issues at the forefront by disassociating from the looting/lawless elements out to profit from the confusion.

St. Louis and NYC were pretty embarrassing, for sure.  The treatment of that Australian film crew hemmed in along the fenceline, equally so.   One vicious cheap shot with a shield, another attempted punch...baton strike at the female reporter running away (they were incredibly able to laugh it off when being interviewed by their anchors back home), both hit by rubber bullets as well.  
 

Another broadcast had a police chief involved in a Sydney take down of an aboriginal teen stating directly, ”Well, we’re not like America...the police here have positive relationships with their community.”   Hard to accept how far we have fallen in terms of international perception, more the butt of jokes and a laughingstock.   Not even the Hong Kong protestors know what to make of America right now.

Edited by caulfield12

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Just straight up calling this a war and saying American citizens that are expressing their First Amendment are evil. Just gross. 

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26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They just teargassed a public protest for a Presidential photo-op.

There is majority support in this country right now for burning down police stations

 

The police and our political leaders nearly across the board have mishandled this situation in ways I couldn't even imagine.

 

 

edit: and it's stuff like we're seeing from the NYPD union, declaring war on the city in a fight of good vs evil, as to why. NYPD scanners picked up police telling each other to just shoot or run over protesters yesterday evening.

https://www.wnyc.org/story/police-scanner-broadcasts-calls-shoot-and-run-over-protesters/

Edited by StrangeSox

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7 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

 

Just straight up calling this a war and saying American citizens that are expressing their First Amendment are evil. Just gross. 

Terminology like “dominating the battlespace” is exactly why we don’t need the military acting as policemen...it’s exactly NOT what they are trained for.

A month or so ago, protestors in Michigan, Ohio and PA were cast as American patriots/martyrs/heroes struggling for our sacred freedoms and liberty against the forces of tyranny arrayed against them.

 

Btw, one of the officers shot in St. Louis protecting a friend’s pawn shop died overnight.

Edited by caulfield12

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Outside of Saturday night when CPD was seemingly caught way off guard, there hasn't been anything crazy coming from them like I'm seeing in NYC, DC, Philly, Seattle, etc. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen them instigating or using tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protesters.

Hopefully that remains the same and other departments realize using violence against peaceful protesters just galvanizes their cause and cause more to show up the next day. We'll see what happens this weekend, though. 

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10 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

Outside of Saturday night when CPD was seemingly caught way off guard, there hasn't been anything crazy coming from them like I'm seeing in NYC, DC, Philly, Seattle, etc. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen them instigating or using tear gas and rubber bullets on peaceful protesters.

Hopefully that remains the same and other departments realize using violence against peaceful protesters just galvanizes their cause and cause more to show up the next day. We'll see what happens this weekend, though. 

Portland had 10-11,000 young and quite peaceful protestors simply lying down flat across an entire bridge.

LA was out of control but that has been cleaned up the last couple of nights.

 

Meanwhile, DJIA at 26,200 and NASDAQ at record highs.   Bizarre times.

Edited by caulfield12

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I genuinely wonder how different things would be of police were required to get higher education degrees before attending police academy. Make it a major that involves cross cultural courses.

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2 minutes ago, Quin said:

I genuinely wonder how different things would be of police were required to get higher education degrees before attending police academy. Make it a major that involves cross cultural courses.

Sure, if we’re willing to increase the salary by 50% or create a national curriculum around conflict mediation, mixed with equal parts justice philosophy and sociology...a little bit like seminary, but for officers of the law.   Would be worth the investment to try a different approach.

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13 minutes ago, Quin said:

I genuinely wonder how different things would be of police were required to get higher education degrees before attending police academy. Make it a major that involves cross cultural courses.

I think Chicago requires at least 2 years of college. 

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32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Terminology like “dominating the battlespace” is exactly why we don’t need the military acting as policemen...it’s exactly NOT what they are trained for.

A month or so ago, protestors in Michigan, Ohio and PA were cast as American patriots/martyrs/heroes struggling for our sacred freedoms and liberty against the forces of tyranny arrayed against them.

 

Btw, one of the officers shot in St. Louis protecting a friend’s pawn shop died overnight.

That is part of the problem. Police uniforms for many are getting closer to looking like military. Their vehicles are getting more military. They will start acting more military.  Make them the peace officers they were supposed to be. 

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15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure, if we’re willing to increase the salary by 50% or create a national curriculum around conflict mediation, mixed with equal parts justice philosophy and sociology...a little bit like seminary, but for officers of the law.   Would be worth the investment to try a different approach.

Police make comparable wages to careers that require degrees which don't involve life and death, so I don't see why we need a salary increase when it's addressing a glaring flaw in the system.

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1 hour ago, Iwritecode said:

I don't think de-funding them means there would be less of them. It just means they don't all need to be equipped like militarily soldiers. Maybe that money would be better spent on better training? Teach them how to deescalate situations instead of doing the exact opposite?

To me, that is the crux of the matter. The police don't necessarily need years of higher education to be effective peace officers, but the militarization of municipal and state police forces is a huge problem and should alarm even the most law abiding citizen.

The officers who appear most effective in managing the current protests are the ones in standard uniform, minimal arms, and willing to listen and even join their civilian counterparts. It must take courage, but definitely seems that the more the police emulate a normal living breathing American by shedding the arms and joining the masses, the more they actually can administer and keep the peace. 

And from everything I have gathered in recent years, the cost to educate and train the police in crisis management and de-escalation is paltry when compared with the heavily armed alternative. So, its both far cheaper and far more effective. 

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On 5/31/2020 at 7:18 PM, Balta1701 said:

Jesus christ. This is a closed expressway, by order of the city, so the truck shouldn't have even been on there. A bunch of people saying there's at least a confederate flag somewhere on the truck.

 

 

What is your source here? Not consistent with what's been reported and the dialogue in the truckers community. Seems like this guy was unaware of the protest occurring on the highway and was just doing his job when he caught a beating from the protesters. Luckily some of the protesters protected him from further damage. 

The highway was supposed to be shutdown/barricaded and wasn't yet as acknowledge by city officials. The truck driver didn't bypass any barricades or anything like that. Minnesota's Safety Commissioner said he had no intent to harm protesters. 

The local gas station owner he was en route to (a black man) said that this individual was not racist and stated that the driver was making a badly needed delivery for him. 

https://www.startribune.com/truck-driver-didn-t-intend-to-hit-protesters-on-35w-bridge-state-officials-say/570925582/

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/kare-11-investigates-semi-driver-didnt-target-protesters/89-0cf459f3-af33-45a0-a8f3-76fb2754bc25

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13 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

 

Well they are also shooting cops as well.  4 shot last night in St. Louis.

Then this wonderful guy decided to shoot a cop in Vegas last night.  

 

And a couple of cops got ran over in NYC.

But yes lets defund the police because its the cool thing to say.  Are there bad police sure.   There are bad people all over.  Remove the unions from protecting them..  Fire them.  And prosecute them with the fullest extend of the law if they fuck up.  But all of these assholes who are using this as an opportunity to play grand theft auto live edition and shoot police and loot businesses can go fuck themselves.  If you buy into that this is acceptable then you are truly lost.  And for all of those who think we dont need police and can defund them.  Good luck with that.  I hope you are ready for GTA live edition all the time.  

 

I get that you’re south side Irish and this may be a hard concept to grasp but the police officers are the people who are escalating these situations. They’re the ones who are going to violence first. If the police were focused on protecting protestors, then a lot of the looting wouldn’t be happening. Yeah there’s opportunist using what’s going on to steal and incite violence but the police are doing nothing to stop that problem.

I also think the people who have been shooting at the police are not members of the protest but opportunist, who are using the protest as a shield in order to loot and cause harm.

I know there was violence on the south side last night where Latin Kings just brutalized every black person they came across and the police just stood by. I know in LA last night police officers blocked people’s ability to use their phones and take videos of what they were doing. Police officers have been breaking into the homes of people who have been shielding protestors and arresting people.

The police are meant to protect and serve communities, to protect people’s constitutional rights. The police are not another branch of the military, the police have been violating people’s constitutional rights. Let’s not forget to mention the hundreds of years of police terrorizing black and brown people.

I didn’t say abolish the police but they need to be defunded/have their spending drastically cut and demilitarized and those dollars should go back into the communities and the people in them. 

I was talking to a white friend of mine about change we wanted to see. I’ll ask you what I asked him, how much change do you expect to see in a nation that was built on white supremacy? There’s needs to be a complete overhaul of the country and the system. America was dying and it’s been dealt a death blow. What’s happening now is scary for a lot of people, hopefully the new country that comes out of this is better for everyone.

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25 minutes ago, raBBit said:

What is your source here? Not consistent with what's been reported and the dialogue in the truckers community. Seems like this guy was unaware of the protest occurring on the highway and was just doing his job when he caught a beating from the protesters. Luckily some of the protesters protected him from further damage. 

The highway was supposed to be shutdown/barricaded and wasn't yet as acknowledge by city officials. The truck driver didn't bypass any barricades or anything like that. Minnesota's Safety Commissioner said he had no intent to harm protesters. 

The local gas station owner he was en route to (a black man) said that this individual was not racist and stated that the driver was making a badly needed delivery for him. 

https://www.startribune.com/truck-driver-didn-t-intend-to-hit-protesters-on-35w-bridge-state-officials-say/570925582/

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/kare-11-investigates-semi-driver-didnt-target-protesters/89-0cf459f3-af33-45a0-a8f3-76fb2754bc25

The story seems suspect. I don't know what that stretch of road looks like but I'm finding it hard to believe it didn't realize he wasn't supposed to be there and didn't see the 100's of people standing in the middle of the road until the last second.

From one of the articles you posted:

Quote

Charlie Garney said he spotted the truck about 150 yards from where he was standing. Garney said the driver began maneuvering around vehicles ahead of him that were trying to turn around after being unable to cross the bridge.

The truck driver “began accelerating from a low speed to a high speed while blaring his horn,” Garney said. “It was clear … he knew we were there and accelerating toward us.”

 

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The other scary thing is the 3rd degree murder charge against the officer who had his knee on George's neck for 9 minutes,  recorded, is set up to be dropped.  If that happens,  then what?

Obviously, there needs to be big change. But does anyone really believe these protests will lead to it? We have been here before so often, then it's like the attention goes somewhere else. Hopefully we can continue protesting until something happens. if it stops next week, nothing is going to change.

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

If the officer in question has the charges dropped.........I suspect what we saw over the last 4 days will happen again, and maybe be worse. 

I will upgrade that to probably worse, and there is zero chance at a conviction.

 

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