southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, GreenSox said: If those were first round picks, that would be an unimpressive track record. Collins was a first round pick and is, as of now, a bust. He is on a major league roster contributing to a playoff team. He might not be where you want him, but it is hard to call someone on a major league roster a draft bust. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raBBit Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 35 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: He is on a major league roster contributing to a playoff team. He might not be where you want him, but it is hard to call someone on a major league roster a draft bust. Carson Fulmer and his career -.8 WAR was on a team a few weeks ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: He is on a major league roster contributing to a playoff team. He might not be where you want him, but it is hard to call someone on a major league roster a draft bust. If a .614 career OPS for any player, much less for a first-round pick in the top 1/2 of the draft, isn't a bust, then nothing is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 12 minutes ago, GreenSox said: If a .614 career OPS for any player, much less for a first-round pick in the top 1/2 of the draft, isn't a bust, then nothing is. As opposed to a guy like Riley Pint was was drafted #4 in the same draft and never made it past High A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: As opposed to a guy like Riley Pint was was drafted #4 in the same draft and never made it past High A? It depends on how you define "bust" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: It depends on how you define "bust" If there is no difference between Riley Pint and Zack Collins in your definitions, then your world view is overly simplistic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If there is no difference between Riley Pint and Zack Collins in your definitions, then your world view is overly simplistic. While there is a difference, at the end of the day neither player is good at the major league level. I'd say that never making the bigs is too narrow of a view for "bust" though. Pint was also always injured, and that ate away at his stuff slowly to the point that it's not MLB quality anymore. Edited June 8, 2021 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 8, 2021 Author Share Posted June 8, 2021 Pint retired today. Always fear the physically maxed out high schooler with "now" stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 17 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: While there is a difference, at the end of the day neither player is good at the major league level. I'd say that never making the bigs is too narrow of a view for "bust" though. Pint was also always injured, and that ate away at his stuff slowly to the point that it's not MLB quality anymore. Zack Collins has retained some value for longer and is very possible he could be traded for something like a middle reliever or other player. Pint can't be traded for anyone as he is retired. There should be some sort of "retained value" metric, because if a guy is good enough to be tried out in the majors even if he sucks it means he has retained some value throughout their minors, even if it would only be a C prospect, that is more value than a guy that is washed out in Single-A. Any attempt to value a draft should really try to break that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 16 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Pint retired today. Always fear the physically maxed out high schooler with "now" stuff. You mean Jared Kelley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: You mean Jared Kelley? Yeah but at least he was a 2nd rounder. GettingCrochet in the 1st reduces the risk a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Latest mock from prospects live 22. Chicago White Sox Colson Montgomery, SS, Southridge The White Sox have had a number of names circled for some time now. College pitchers like Gavin Williams and Ty Madden are popular inside the organization, as are prep infielders like Wes Kath and Maxwell Muncy. Ultimately, we’ve got Rick Hahn and Co.™ selecting the Indiana prep shortstop at 22. Montgomery has a beautiful blend of athleticism, impact and projection in his physical 6-foot-4 frame. Many believe he’ll stick at shortstop long-term where the value of his bat will play way up. There’s the potential of an above average hit and above average power here, something that’s awfully difficult to find at the position. 57. Chicago White Sox Chase Burns, RHP, Station Camp Burns is a bit of a divisive prospect in scouting circles. Some teams have him a first round grade, while others have him valued outside of the fitth round. The White Sox like him quite a bit and were he to fall this far, they'd likely have no problem scooping him up. He's been up to 98 but generally sits 93-96 with a four distinct pitches. The curveball and slider melt together at times, but it's a big body with feel for spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 Quote Montgomery: Many believe he’ll stick at shortstop long-term I do not. Quote Sweeney: He’s a big-bodied shortstop who will immediately shift to second base or third base at the next level. No he won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 16 minutes ago, beautox said: Latest mock from prospects live 22. Chicago White Sox Colson Montgomery, SS, Southridge The White Sox have had a number of names circled for some time now. College pitchers like Gavin Williams and Ty Madden are popular inside the organization, as are prep infielders like Wes Kath and Maxwell Muncy. Ultimately, we’ve got Rick Hahn and Co.™ selecting the Indiana prep shortstop at 22. Montgomery has a beautiful blend of athleticism, impact and projection in his physical 6-foot-4 frame. Many believe he’ll stick at shortstop long-term where the value of his bat will play way up. There’s the potential of an above average hit and above average power here, something that’s awfully difficult to find at the position. 57. Chicago White Sox Chase Burns, RHP, Station Camp Burns is a bit of a divisive prospect in scouting circles. Some teams have him a first round grade, while others have him valued outside of the fitth round. The White Sox like him quite a bit and were he to fall this far, they'd likely have no problem scooping him up. He's been up to 98 but generally sits 93-96 with a four distinct pitches. The curveball and slider melt together at times, but it's a big body with feel for spin. This is the first I've seen on Montgomery sticking at SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, GreenSox said: If a .614 career OPS for any player, much less for a first-round pick in the top 1/2 of the draft, isn't a bust, then nothing is. He has like 250 career plate appearances so his ops means nothing. General consensus is that your stats don't mean much until you have 700-800 career plate appreances. Mike trout had a sub 700 Ops his first 150 plate appreances. Obviously trout was way younger so that doesn't really compare but still you can't call someone with less than a half season worth of PAs a bust. It is a little disappointing that it took so long to arrive in the majors but I would mostly blame the front office that they didn't force giving collins (who has a 840 minors career ops) 450 PAs in the meaningless 2019 season and instead played 30 yo McCann (who was great but not the future of the team). Edited June 9, 2021 by Dominikk85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Callis mock. https://www.mlb.com/news/mock-mlb-draft-2021-june-9?t=mlb-draft-coverage Quote 22. White Sox: Colson Montgomery, 3B, Southridge HS (Huntingburg, Ind.) The White Sox are associated with several prep position players. It's no secret that they're on Montgomery, and they also like catcher Joe Mack and second baseman Peyton Stovall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 There is a ton of hype around Montgomery right now. He's facing a DUDE on saturday. It will be interesting as hell to see how much hype is around him after this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: There is a ton of hype around Montgomery right now. He's facing a DUDE on saturday. It will be interesting as hell to see how much hype is around him after this one. I noticed he was mentioned at 10 with the Mets in Callis' mock. That would be a wild amount of helium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, DirtySox said: I noticed he was mentioned at 10 with the Mets in Callis' mock. That would be a wild amount of helium. They've sent in their entire scouting department to see him. Someone sounded the alarm and they went running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) Quote Ht: 6-6 | Wt: 255 | B-T: L-R Commit/Drafted: Rays '17 (30) Age At Draft: 22.0 Rank: 67 Preseason Report: One of the hardest-throwing pitchers in the 2020 draft class (he ranked No. 81), Williams looks the part of a big league pitcher with a massive, 6-foot-6, 255-pound frame and a fastball to match. At his best he has touched 100-101 mph and should again be right at the top of the hardest-throwing arms in the 2021 draft class. He gets to that velocity with ease in the delivery and has good natural feel to spin a breaking ball with flashes of an above-average changeup. Considering the pure stuff, Williams’ upside is tremendous. What holds him back is his control and a few minor injuries that have hampered him throughout his career at ECU. There’s plenty of reliever risk, but those who like him will likely give him a shot to start considering his delivery, size and three-pitch mix. Williams has been primarily used as a reliever with the Pirates, and over three seasons he has thrown 68 innings while posting a 3.57 ERA, striking out 70 batters (9.3 per nine) and walking 32 (4.2 per nine). Williams could rank significantly higher than this with a healthy and strong spring. Edited June 11, 2021 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Dillon Tate vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 @Harold's Leg Lift What are your thoughts on Peyton Stovall? Are the hit/power tools good enough to overlook the limited defensive profile? I think I would prefer many of the other prep prospects in this range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, DirtySox said: @Harold's Leg Lift What are your thoughts on Peyton Stovall? Are the hit/power tools good enough to overlook the limited defensive profile? I think I would prefer many of the other prep prospects in this range. A 2B only without a plus tool. Are you trying to make me mad? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Is it just me or are there a lotta big boys this draft? I feel like in 2030 there will be some 6'2 second baseman we are all calling a nick madrigal type because the rest of the players will be 6'6 or taller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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