Anyone Remember Much about the 2000 White Sox?

[Soxsi75]

This to me is a forgotten team in White Sox history. And I'm wondering if everyone else thinks so, and if so, why? They are still the highest scoring team in the 2000's. They finished with the best record in the AL and had the best record pretty much all year from May on. In June, they steamrolled the Indians and Yankees, their main competition for the best team in the AL, in a couple of home and home series that cemented they were the best team in the AL that year.  I think many people today remember this team as a team that could hit but didn't have any pitching. Untrue. At the halfway point, they were 2nd in the AL in ERA. Their top 4 starters ERA's read as follows. Sirotka 3.78, Parque 3.86, Baldwin 3.88, and Eldred 3.91. And the league AVG ERA for that season was 5.28. The only reason they were second at this point was Pedro Martinez's incredible performance had Boston atop in ERA. As far as wins go, Baldwin and Eldred had 10 wins. Parque and Sirotka were at 8 each. The teams record was 52-29.  That means Baldwin and Eldred each were on pace to win 20 games, and Parque and Sirotka 16. And, of course as I mentioned, they had the best offense baseball has seen since the 21st century began. AND their main hitters, Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Paul Konerko and Carlos Lee, all of whom had better seasons in their careers then this one. So no one can use the "career year" label here.  So what happened?  

What happened was their pitching staff blew apart with injuries. It began on July 14th when Eldred blew out his elbow and effectively ended his season. Then throughout the course of the season EVERY SINGLE ONE of these 4 guys went down with serious injury. And long term. Bad enough that Sirotka never pitched again and Baldwin and Parque were never the same again. And the bullpen wasn't spared either. Simas and Barcelo never pitched again because of injury and Wunsch and Howry were effected.  Yet they still finished 4th in ERA.  

By the time the playoffs came around their entire staff was in shambles. They lost to Seattle partly because I think their young hitting felt a bit of pressure, but there was no way they could have gotten any further or won in the post season because of the shape their staff was in.  Parque started Game 1 and it was said later he wouldn't have been able to start another game afterwards and Baldwin gallantly started Game 3 but he really probably shouldn't have. 

Am I the only one who remembers this? Why isn't this team more revered? The 1977 South Side Hit Men team is fondly remembered, and rightfully so and by myself mind you, but that team didn't win a title. They finished 12 games out.  This team did.  Is it because they fell apart in the playoffs and what happened between this year and 2005 when the Twins used their small ball approach to success? Maybe if this teams pitching didn't fall apart to injury so thoroughly, which contributed greatly to their failures between 2000 and 2005, things might have been different. 

I'd love to hear what everyone else thinks. 

 

 

  

 

 

[SonofaRoache]

Fun team to watch but in think most people knew that team wasn't gonna make a deep playoff run. That week against the Indians and Yankees was epic and one of my favorite Sox memories.  Very fun year but their flame out in the first round is the reason they aren't fresh in everyone's mind. As it turned out though, that Mariners team was pretty good. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by SonofaRoache

[Dick Allen]

One of the greatest offenses in team history. Especially after they got Charles Johnson. They had an .800 + OPS at every position except CF.

[SonofaRoache]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

One of the greatest offenses in team history. Especially after they got Charles Johnson. They had an .800 + OPS at every position except CF.

I would argue they were the greatest offense we've had. Especially after adding Charles Johnson. 

[Soxsi75]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I would argue they were the greatest offense we've had. Especially after adding Charles Johnson. 

I agree. With everything you said. You're right, most people didn't think they'd make a deep playoff run....because of the horrible shape their pitching staff was in with the injuries. But what if their ENTIRE staff wasn't hurt? Because as I proved in my initial statement, they DID have pitching. What if their staff stayed healthy? Not just this year, but in the next few years? Johann Santana and Brad Radtke didn't have any injury issues for Minnesota. Meanwhile, during this time we were starting guys like Danny Wright and Todd Ritchie because this entire staff went down. And of the young guys we had come up because of this whole staff getting hurt, Buehrle was the only one who really developed long term. We were counting on guys like Jon Rauch, (remember him?) 

[Jack Parkman]

20 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Fun team to watch but in think most people knew that team wasn't gonna make a deep playoff run. That week against the Indians and Yankees was epic and one of my favorite Sox memories.  Very fun year but their flame out in the first round is the reason they aren't fresh in everyone's mind. As it turned out though, that Mariners team was pretty good. 

Yeah, but the reason why they weren't going to make a deep run was because the pitching staff was pretty much dead. They were never going to be able to get good teams out in the playoffs with all of those injuries. 

[Soxsi75]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, but the reason why they weren't going to make a deep run was because the pitching staff was pretty much dead. They were never going to be able to get good teams out in the playoffs with all of those injuries. 

EXACTLY!! My point exactly!!

[Jack Parkman]

The 2000 pitching staff was the answer to the question "What if the entire staff's arms fell off?" Lol. 

[bmags]

I'd say the 2000 team was one that brought a lot of sox fans home after the strike.

Why was it not more beloved? One - I think it is a popular team to be honest but here's my takes:

1) Definitely the quick exit/sweep especially with some pretty listless games.

2) Failed to live up to its promise:

 - That young pitching staff that seemed to be on the verge was essentially all gone by 2002 except buerhle - hardly a staple of who we remember on that team

 - Players like magglio and lee really had their more dominant years later as they took on the team

 - 2001 was just one of the most unlikeable teams ever, between clayton, wells, and much of the number 1 farm system flaming out at once

 - On that came out of nowhere and was gone just as fast. The 2003 team did not feel much like that 2000 team at all (though it had the konerko, magglio, lee, thomas threads), and the 2005 team felt nothing like that 2003 team. It was like a bizarro world for a year, like if the 2016 team had actually kept that pace for some weird year.

That said, man jose valentin was the best.

[SonofaRoache]

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, but the reason why they weren't going to make a deep run was because the pitching staff was pretty much dead. They were never going to be able to get good teams out in the playoffs with all of those injuries. 

Yep. I think the offense in 2000 was our best ever, but no way were they going far with the pitching. It was unfortunate but we got our title 5 years later. 

[michelangelosmonkey]

I think after the 2000 season I felt like we were poised for a five year run of greatness.  The team won 95 games and I think had the #1 rated minor league system that was filled with top pitching prospects...Kip Wells and Aaron Myette were top 30 prospects in all of baseball.  Buehrle was 21.  John Garland had started a dozen games at 20.  Jon Rauch was top draft pick the year before was 6-11 and looked like the new Randy Johnson.  I don't think I was every so excited about the next five years of the White Sox as I was that fall.  I guess a cautionary tale about this team.     

[Kyyle23]

Nardi Contreras seemed to have a lot of shoulder and arm issues pop up on his staff the last couple years

[flavum]

The Milkman 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

2000 was also the year the Sox drafted Joe Borchard.

[Soxsi75]

22 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'd say the 2000 team was one that brought a lot of sox fans home after the strike.

Why was it not more beloved? One - I think it is a popular team to be honest but here's my takes:

1) Definitely the quick exit/sweep especially with some pretty listless games.

2) Failed to live up to its promise:

 - That young pitching staff that seemed to be on the verge was essentially all gone by 2002 except buerhle - hardly a staple of who we remember on that team

 - Players like magglio and lee really had their more dominant years later as they took on the team

 - 2001 was just one of the most unlikeable teams ever, between clayton, wells, and much of the number 1 farm system flaming out at once

 - On that came out of nowhere and was gone just as fast. The 2003 team did not feel much like that 2000 team at all (though it had the konerko, magglio, lee, thomas threads), and the 2005 team felt nothing like that 2003 team. It was like a bizarro world for a year, like if the 2016 team had actually kept that pace for some weird year.

That said, man jose valentin was the best.

I think you sum it up perfectly and I completely agree!! With EVERYTHING you said!! I didn't think about initially the point you make about the 2001 team being that unlikeable, but you are spot on!! And I remember thinking so at the time, but as time went on, I had forgotten a bit about it.  But you're right. Ironic you mentioned that Valentin was the best....because I remember how much I hated the Clayton trade and Clayton himself.  Management got the idea that one major problem with the team was Valentin made too many errors at short. So they trade for Clayton. But what happened instead, was that one trade screwed up 3 positions for the Sox and 3 important players from the 2000 team. Because they decided to make Valentin a utility player, a la Tony Phillips. A guy who will play mostly everyday, but at different places. So that screwed up Valentin.  One position they had Valentin play sometimes was third. So that screwed up Herbert Perry's role, a very underrated performer for us in 2000. Or center, to help screw up Singelton. So there's the 3 regulars it influenced. And Wells was damaged goods. At least here.  Frustrating thing about him was he pitched well every where else he pitched....except here.  And the farm system.....everything you said was true.

[Tnetennba]

Sox making the playoffs in 2000 is what started to bring me back post strike and white flag trade.  I can't say I watched many games though 😂😇.  

[hi8is]

11 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

2000 was also the year the Sox drafted Joe Borchard.

LTP!!!

[pcq]

I remember Hit Me Baby One More Time on the radio broadcasts. Jon Garland debuted mid-season at 4-8 6.46 ERA.

[dasox24]

The 2000 Sox team is the first I ever followed for an entire season from start to finish - I lived in Tennessee, so I had to follow the team by either 1) reading the box scores in the paper every morning; 2) watching the rare game on TV; or 3) catching highlights on ESPN and/or seeing the score on the ESPN bottom line.   I was in 6th grade.  That's the team who got me totally hooked on the Sox, so I'll also appreciate them.

[Dominikk85]

The offense was great but the pitching not so much. The results in the RS weren't that bad but sirotka, parque and Baldwin significantly outperformed their FIP which was bound to come back to earth.

[Jack Parkman]

16 minutes ago, hi8is said:

LTP!!!

You can only have LTP, if you know, you can actually make contact. LOL. 

[Soxsi75]

21 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

The offense was great but the pitching not so much. The results in the RS weren't that bad but sirotka, parque and Baldwin significantly outperformed their FIP which was bound to come back to earth.

"Coming back to earth" wasn't this staff's problem. They got hurt. So if you are looking at some advanced statistic like FIP, it's going to be misleading.  Plus, this statistic can be incredibly misleading. In 2005 the White Sox had only the 5th best FIP in the AL. You going to tell me they only had the 5th best pitching in the AL that year? On the flip side, in 1971 the White Sox had the BEST FIP in the AL! That famed Baltimore Oriole staff, considered by many among the best, and maybe the very best, staff in baseball history was only 4th in FIP! The 1971 White Sox pitching staff. Not sure they're looked at as a great staff.  

Edited July 6, 2020 by Soxsi75

[Steve9347]

Loved that team. The pitching was pretty brutal, but they caught a ton of lightning in a bottle with their rotation.

 

[Chisoxfn]

That was just a really really fun team. Lots of good young players who peaked, especially offensively, mixed with right mix of veterans.  It was too bad the pitching broke down / was not good.  The Mariners series was just a brutal match-up, partly because they were in the shadows for most of the games (which certainly didn't help a team that relied heavily on offense). The team also showed its fair share of nerves where you just saw they were playing tight after getting backed into a corner.  

[Blackout Friday]

Big frank should have won a third MVP that year.