So who's the next manager?

[chitownsportsfan]

Honestly last night broke me with Renteria.  Asleep at the wheel once again with a pitcher the third time through that was clearly walking a tight rope all night, with or without horrific defense.

There's no way this team can go to the top with such a laid back, lets things happen, manager like Renteria.  He has already failed to realize the handedness of the opposing starter twice.  That alone is enough to let him go, but he keeps digging the hole deeper.

I'll add this even tho it's probably going to be controversial: the laid back attitude permeated down to Eloy doing what he did last night.  There's such a thing as playing loose and free and having fun and playing sloppy and careless. Eloy is a bad defender but there's no excuse to not get up immediately there and go get the fucking ball.  That tumble he took I'm more than half convinced he thought it would be fun or cool.  Even if he needed to tumble into the netting in order to prevent an injury, GET UP.  He laid there for a couple split seconds like he thought Robert was going to run all the way over and bail him out.

Edited August 7, 2020 by chitownsportsfan

[ChiSox59]

Renteria is awful.  Plain awful.  But I think he's probably the guy for the forseeable future.  

[Green Line]

Jerry does not fire Sox managers.  Ricky will be here until he quits, just like our previous two were.

[Butter Parque]

No chance any changes get made unless Renteria wants to leave. 

The Sox are essentially Cuba. Other parts of the league may be driving around in BMW's and Tesla's, but the Sox are going to ride this '57 Buick Special until the engine falls out. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

No chance any changes get made unless Renteria wants to leave. 

The Sox are essentially Cuba. Other parts of the league may be driving around in BMW's and Tesla's, but the Sox are going to ride this '57 Buick Special until the engine falls out. 

Wasn’t this a scene in the most recent Fast & the Furious...?

Edited August 7, 2020 by caulfield12

[chw42]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wasn’t this a scene in the most recent Fast & the Furious...?

lol yeah

[greg775]

Don't. forget, Ned Yost won a WS title. The Cubs' genius finally was escorted out the door. You got good players you win; bad ones you lose. You think a baseball mind like RR doesn't know he's rolling the dice a lot because of a sub par pitching staff? He knows Eloy is sub par in left. He can't go out there and demand Eloy take fungoes for 3 hours a day. Eloy has to work on his defense in the off seasons. Did he? Dunno. Not much RR can do about pitching staff injuries and sit-outs and lack of effective arms. It works together arm in arm with Hahn but despite many questionable moves by RR, I don't think it matters much. Even Dusty ... he's never won a WS so many think he's bad. 

I'm just saying, Ricky may deserve a grade of C to C- but does it matter? Why did the Cubs start to sour on Mr. Analytics? Etc. And I won't lose any sleep if Ricky is fired.

Edited August 7, 2020 by greg775

[southsider2k5]

Jirschele would seem to be the leader in the clubhouse at this time

 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Jirschele would seem to be the leader in the clubhouse at this time

 

 He has a lot of the same attributes as Ventura managerial wise.  When is the last time you saw a Sox manager out tactic the opposing manager?  Renteria has been pantsed so many times going to a PH only to have the opposing manager be like "lol this is why I had two guys warming up" and then the Sox lose a position player and still don't get the platoon advantage.  

Just once I'd like to have a manager you know is more engaged and smarter than the opposition's.  

Also, stop telling Moncada to try and bunt to beat the shift.  That shit has to stop, now.  If he didn't tell him to bunt, AT LEAST tell him not to bunt because he can hit the ball 400 feet.  We are giving away ABs and games.

 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

 He has a lot of the same attributes as Ventura managerial wise.  When is the last time you saw a Sox manager out tactic the opposing manager?  Renteria has been pantsed so many times going to a PH only to have the opposing manager be like "lol this is why I had two guys warming up" and then the Sox lose a position player and still don't get the platoon advantage.  

Just once I'd like to have a manager you know is more engaged and smarter than the opposition's.  

Also, stop telling Moncada to try and bunt to beat the shift.  That shit has to stop, now.  If he didn't tell him to bunt, AT LEAST tell him not to bunt because he can hit the ball 400 feet.  We are giving away ABs and games.

 

I would love to see the expect run totals done on a study like this.  If the guy can get a bunt down, it is a near 100% chance of a hit, putting 1st and 2nd with no outs and the AL defending RBI leader coming to the plate, and the rest of the middle of the order to follow.

That has to be worth more than a whatever percentage chance of a home run when it comes to run expectations in an inning.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I would love to see the expect run totals done on a study like this.  If the guy can get a bunt down, it is a near 100% chance of a hit, putting 1st and 2nd with no outs and the AL defending RBI leader coming to the plate, and the rest of the middle of the order to follow.

That has to be worth more than a whatever percentage chance of a home run when it comes to run expectations in an inning.

I just think you're asking guys to step out of their comfort zone.  Moncada can hit the ball the other way, if he wants to beat the shift, start looking oppo, that would be what I'd tell him.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

I just think you're asking guys to step out of their comfort zone.  Moncada can hit the ball the other way, if he wants to beat the shift, start looking oppo, that would be what I'd tell him.

For the record, I don't believe Moncada is being ASKED to do this, as we don't see anyone else doing this against the shift.

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

For the record, I don't believe Moncada is being ASKED to do this, as we don't see anyone else doing this against the shift.

I don't think he's asking him but Renteria should tell him to stop.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I don't think he's asking him but Renteria should tell him to stop.

If anything he needs to practice it and get it down.  I can't see how a 100% chance at a base hit would lower expected run totals versus something like a 1:20 chance of a homer, or 1:15 chance at a double based on his XBH totals from last year.  Also worth noting is that Yoan is still operating with about a 1:4 chance of a K, and a 6.5:10 chance of not reaching base at all.

[greg775]

16 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

 He has a lot of the same attributes as Ventura managerial wise.  When is the last time you saw a Sox manager out tactic the opposing manager?  Renteria has been pantsed so many times going to a PH only to have the opposing manager be like "lol this is why I had two guys warming up" and then the Sox lose a position player and still don't get the platoon advantage.  

Just once I'd like to have a manager you know is more engaged and smarter than the opposition's.  

Also, stop telling Moncada to try and bunt to beat the shift.  That shit has to stop, now.  If he didn't tell him to bunt, AT LEAST tell him not to bunt because he can hit the ball 400 feet.  We are giving away ABs and games.

 

In the words of every politician after a commercial, "I do not approve this message." I disagree with a lot of this. I don't like shifts. I love the few times players bunt in that vast area of green left by shifts.

Edited August 7, 2020 by greg775

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, greg775 said:

In the words of every politician after a commercial, "I do not approve this message." I disagree with a lot of this.

I know you do, which is why I typed it.

[greg775]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

I know you do, which is why I typed it.

Oh.

[BamaDoc]

I would love to see all our players beat the shifts to the point they have to defend us much more straight up. We swing at pitches away that we should either drive the other way or take and generate favorable counts.  We strike out to much. Most our guys have easy power and don’t need to sell out. I know “it’s modern baseball “well this guy thinks a lot of modern baseball sucks!  Ricky does have issues but no one was going to win with the last few years roster. I do think it is important for our roster to have a bilingual manager if a change is made. I don’t see a change this season. 

[Jose Abreu]

36 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would love to see the expect run totals done on a study like this.  If the guy can get a bunt down, it is a near 100% chance of a hit, putting 1st and 2nd with no outs and the AL defending RBI leader coming to the plate, and the rest of the middle of the order to follow.

I wouldn't say it's near 100% (even with the shift, as the bunt still has to be good enough for the pitcher to miss it), but I think you're severely discounting the probability of failed bunts.

[Tnetennba]

51 minutes ago, Tony said:

When I look at Ricky, I won't say he's done a bad job thus far. I think his staff has done a good job with player development and they've created a very good clubhouse and team environment (at least judging by the information we have to go off of.) 

But I don't believe he can take this team to the next level. And that's the only objective right now. 

This is essentially it IMO.  Renteria and staff have done a pretty good job of player development and creating a positive clubhouse atmosphere - one that frankly after Robin was completely toxic.  But his game management and in-game decision-making is terrible, Inept, and any other applicable adjective.  And has been during the entirely of the rebuild.  Talent does not and will not fix that.  RR is not the manager to carry them over the top.  I just hope the FO knows it too.

 

[fathom]

Ricky has never managed in a pennant chase, and now he’s forced to manage each game with more importance than usual. It was never a good fit for this unique season.

[Butter Parque]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Don't. forget, Ned Yost won a WS title. The Cubs' genius finally was escorted out the door. You got good players you win; bad ones you lose. You think a baseball mind like RR doesn't know he's rolling the dice a lot because of a sub par pitching staff? He knows Eloy is sub par in left. He can't go out there and demand Eloy take fungoes for 3 hours a day. Eloy has to work on his defense in the off seasons. Did he? Dunno. Not much RR can do about pitching staff injuries and sit-outs and lack of effective arms. It works together arm in arm with Hahn but despite many questionable moves by RR, I don't think it matters much. Even Dusty ... he's never won a WS so many think he's bad. 

I'm just saying, Ricky may deserve a grade of C to C- but does it matter? Why did the Cubs start to sour on Mr. Analytics? Etc. And I won't lose any sleep if Ricky is fired.

I think Renteria cost them the game yesterday before Eloy did what he did.

I don't think there was any reason for Gio to be in the game past the 4th. He walked a tightrope just to get to that point. The bullpen was moderately rested. To me, that was a game where you have to do everything in your power to protect the lead. 

[Butter Parque]

57 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'm not sure the data totally backs up your eyes. 

On August 7th, 2020, the Sox rank (In MLB):

1st in AVG. (.272)

1st in hits (126)

3rd in total bases (199)

4th in OBP (.335)

6th in Ks (124) The Braves, Mariners, Cubs, Indians and A's all have K'd more than the Sox

9th in HR (17) *Tied with 4 teams at 17 HR

19th in walks (38)

Those numbers don't scream to me that the Sox are "selling out" to hit the HR. And I agree with you that many on the team do have "easy power"

But the Sox have been made up with a collection of players that simply don't walk much and hit for power and extra base hits. Historically, those power guys are also going to strike out a lot. 

Is there anywhere to find how often a team is behind in the count?

Checked Fangraphs and couldn't find it.

It feels like this team is behind in the count 1-2 on every at-bat. To be first in .avg is incredible. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Butter Parque said:

I think Renteria cost them the game yesterday before Eloy did what he did.

I don't think there was any reason for Gio to be in the game past the 4th. He walked a tightrope just to get to that point. The bullpen was moderately rested. To me, that was a game where you have to do everything in your power to protect the lead. 

The problem is that all indications are you are already looking at a bullpen day on Saturday and you have Dylan Cease going today who also hasn't shown much in the way of working deep into games so far.  You may well be looking at 20 non-starter/bullpen innings over these three days.  He wasn't going to be quick on the trigger knowing Friday and Saturday could well see 15 innings pitched by guys who are in that bullpen.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

This will be one of my all-tie biggest meatball takes, and I'm aware of it going in. 

I want a winner. I want someone who knows how to manage a ball club that is preparing in Spring Training to be playing in the last week of October. I want a manager who builds a lineup with the intention of it giving him the best possible chance to win on that day. I want a manager who makes in-game decisions with the sole purpose of winning the game he is currently managing. 

When I look at Ricky, I won't say he's done a bad job thus far. I think his staff has done a good job with player development and they've created a very good clubhouse and team environment (at least judging by the information we have to go off of.) 

But I don't believe he can take this team to the next level. And that's the only objective right now. 

I agree with the short season this year. However, in a normal year this is too short sighted. There are times when moves need to be made especially with pitching with the long season in mind. The smart manager knows how to play so the team is ready for October not worn out and beat by October.