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chitownsportsfan

So who's the next manager?

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1 minute ago, Butter Parque said:

I think Renteria cost them the game yesterday before Eloy did what he did.

I don't think there was any reason for Gio to be in the game past the 4th. He walked a tightrope just to get to that point. The bullpen was moderately rested. To me, that was a game where you have to do everything in your power to protect the lead. 

The problem is that all indications are you are already looking at a bullpen day on Saturday and you have Dylan Cease going today who also hasn't shown much in the way of working deep into games so far.  You may well be looking at 20 non-starter/bullpen innings over these three days.  He wasn't going to be quick on the trigger knowing Friday and Saturday could well see 15 innings pitched by guys who are in that bullpen.

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

This will be one of my all-tie biggest meatball takes, and I'm aware of it going in. 

I want a winner. I want someone who knows how to manage a ball club that is preparing in Spring Training to be playing in the last week of October. I want a manager who builds a lineup with the intention of it giving him the best possible chance to win on that day. I want a manager who makes in-game decisions with the sole purpose of winning the game he is currently managing. 

When I look at Ricky, I won't say he's done a bad job thus far. I think his staff has done a good job with player development and they've created a very good clubhouse and team environment (at least judging by the information we have to go off of.) 

But I don't believe he can take this team to the next level. And that's the only objective right now. 

I agree with the short season this year. However, in a normal year this is too short sighted. There are times when moves need to be made especially with pitching with the long season in mind. The smart manager knows how to play so the team is ready for October not worn out and beat by October.

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15 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree with the short season this year. However, in a normal year this is too short sighted. There are times when moves need to be made especially with pitching with the long season in mind. The smart manager knows how to play so the team is ready for October not worn out and beat by October.

I can agree with that, ptac. I was more referencing Ricky's quotes from earlier this year about offering Robert "more protection" from himself in the 7th hole, he might not be ready to lead off, too much pressure, etc. I think that's a totally made up idea and if anything, by saying stuff like that, you just add into that myth and now are actually putting pressure on the player. 

Put the best team on the field and put your players, certainly your best ones, in the ideal situation to help the club win. 

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57 minutes ago, Butter Parque said:

Is there anywhere to find how often a team is behind in the count?

Checked Fangraphs and couldn't find it.

It feels like this team is behind in the count 1-2 on every at-bat. To be first in .avg is incredible. 

Keep in mind, these are still incredibly small sample sizes, I'm not ready to make any sort of determination on what this offense really is. But we are going on what we have to go off of. 

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4 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Honestly last night broke me with Renteria.  Asleep at the wheel once again with a pitcher the third time through that was clearly walking a tight rope all night, with or without horrific defense.

There's no way this team can go to the top with such a laid back, lets things happen, manager like Renteria.  He has already failed to realize the handedness of the opposing starter twice.  That alone is enough to let him go, but he keeps digging the hole deeper.

I'll add this even tho it's probably going to be controversial: the laid back attitude permeated down to Eloy doing what he did last night.  There's such a thing as playing loose and free and having fun and playing sloppy and careless. Eloy is a bad defender but there's no excuse to not get up immediately there and go get the fucking ball.  That tumble he took I'm more than half convinced he thought it would be fun or cool.  Even if he needed to tumble into the netting in order to prevent an injury, GET UP.  He laid there for a couple split seconds like he thought Robert was going to run all the way over and bail him out.

Let's ignore that RR is probably not going anywhere, and pretend he was fired.

Perhaps I am just so prospect obsessed at this point that I even want to see a managerial prospect break spring camp with the team, but I really do like the idea of Jirschele getting the job. A lot of the key, young players know him, he's been successful at both winning and developing talent in his minor league jobs so far, and he would finally be a WS manager that embraces the modern aspects of baseball analysis.

However, giving the keys of a contender over to 30 year old AA manager is definitely a risk. In my dream world, JJ is the manager next year, but they somehow convince a former manager like Ron Washington to come on as 3rd base coach to mentor JJ and offset his lack of experience (and maybe handle any personalities that don't want to follow a leader 5-10 years their junior at first).

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54 minutes ago, Tony said:

Keep in mind, these are still incredibly small sample sizes, I'm not ready to make any sort of determination on what this offense really is. But we are going on what we have to go off of. 

I think the one thing you can say is that they will be hit or miss, and they will be explosive.  They will define standard deviation this year with how inconsistent they will be.

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We need to have a Manager that can communicate with players in English and Spanish. Renteria's job is safe because I can't think of anyone other than Ozzie that would fit.

If it was me, I'd give Ozzie the job.  After all, pro sports is is an entertainment business.

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11 minutes ago, tray said:

We need to have a Manager that can communicate with players in English and Spanish. Renteria's job is safe because I can't think of anyone other than Ozzie that would fit.

If it was me, I'd give Ozzie the job.  After all, pro sports is is an entertainment business.

https://www.espn.com/blog/onenacion/post/_/id/1357/mlb-managers-learn-spanish-to-unite-teams-and-clubhouses
 

Dusty Baker, Scioscia, Jayce Tingler, Fredi Gonzalez, Matheny, Alex Cora (haha), Joe Maddon, Dave Martinez, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Omar Vizquel, Edwin Rodriguez...there are a lot more than you might think.

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Jim Boylen is still the bulls head coach, and will likely remain the head coach despite the FO wanting to go another direction. Sound familiar? 

 

Jim freaking Boylen is still the bulls head coach. Let that sink in. Jerry doesn't let GMs get rid of managers/head coaches easily. Ricky won't be going anywhere. 

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If the Bulls aren't moving on from Boylen due to "financial constraints", the Sox will not be moving on from Renteria. 

He's done a good job at developing the players but he does a terrible job at putting them in positions to succeed. He's also very close-minded when it comes to some of the newer trends of the game. 

I was pissed at his reluctance to use an opener for guys like Lopez and Gio when they've been terrible in the first inning as a team. It's been said before but the decision to leave him in to face the Brewers a third time through the order was inexcusable. I also hate his decisions when it comes to the lineup. Abreu shouldn't be playing every game against RHSP's and when he does play against him, he shouldn't be batting third. So far he has failed to optimize the talent on the roster. 

The next manager on the Sox is someone who uses all the information available to optimize the talent on the roster, while still emphasizing player development. PD is super important and if the Dodgers and Yankees have made it a constant priority, so should the White Sox. I want someone like Kevin Cash or Bob Melvin to manage the Sox.  

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22 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:Let that sink in. Jerry doesn't let GMs get rid of managers/head coaches easily. Ricky won't be going anywhere. 

Unless your name is Phil Jackson and then it’s acceptable to let the GM drive you out of town 

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23 hours ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Unless your name is Phil Jackson and then it’s acceptable to let the GM drive you out of town 

Or Tony LaRussa, haha.

Somehow, all the HoF managers/coaches are banished.

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If Reinsdorf won't let the Bulls FO fire Boylen what makes anyone think that he'll let Hahn fire Renteria?

Both are bad at their jobs but Boylen's a notch above Renteria on the Bad-O-Meter. 

The Boylen/Bulls news has me very pessimistic about this team's future. I'm freaked they won't spend to shore up holes. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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On 8/7/2020 at 1:27 PM, chitownsportsfan said:

 He has a lot of the same attributes as Ventura managerial wise.  When is the last time you saw a Sox manager out tactic the opposing manager?  Renteria has been pantsed so many times going to a PH only to have the opposing manager be like "lol this is why I had two guys warming up" and then the Sox lose a position player and still don't get the platoon advantage.  

Just once I'd like to have a manager you know is more engaged and smarter than the opposition's.  

Also, stop telling Moncada to try and bunt to beat the shift.  That shit has to stop, now.  If he didn't tell him to bunt, AT LEAST tell him not to bunt because he can hit the ball 400 feet.  We are giving away ABs and games.

 

I don't know where you get the Jirschele / Ventura comparison.  Every article I see about Jirschele refers to his being submerged in analytics.

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Ricky seems like a good guy and if he ends up as a “special assistant “ to Hahn I’m okay w that. But today broke me w Ricky. Detwiler should have been in there in the 4th to face their heart of theIr order. How in the hell could you think Anderson was ready to throw 4 or 5 innings? It is sadly delusional. I like Ricky, I’d have a beer w Ricky, but he ain’t the long term answer. Neither is Ozzie. It it’s an internal hire go w Jirshcele.

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10 minutes ago, MackowiakYakYak said:

If you miss him then you weren’t watching enough baseball at the time

 

2012 he was fine...the whole team, with 12 rookies, until collapsing down the stretch, something like a 4-11 finish.

Defense was MUCH better than the 2011 Ozzie FInale Year.    Dunn recovered from his funk, somewhat.

 

If Moncada's going to keep "fake bunting" every at-bat, then Omar Vizquel would have been perfect.

Edited by caulfield12

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1 hour ago, MackowiakYakYak said:

If you miss him then you weren’t watching enough baseball at the time

I watched every game. Renteria is leaps and bounds worse. 

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I'd say Ricky is more frustrating given all the circumstances (really just one: that this is a good team he's dragging down) but Ventura was considered a horrible manager. In this ESPN poll he was the worst rated manager, by fans, in all of sports. Right now, I think you could find worse managers than him, but I would've swapped almost anyone for Robin.

My one defense of Ricky is that I think he is a players' manager and is doing his best to take the heat off his players. We criticize his line-ups all day and then find out before the game that Grandal is nursing a minor injury. Once again, don't think he's great, but he's good at being the scapegoat and keeping pressure off players.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/17837369/chicago-white-sox-drop-11-spots-ultimate-standings-fourth-straight-losing-season

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On 8/7/2020 at 7:26 PM, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/onenacion/post/_/id/1357/mlb-managers-learn-spanish-to-unite-teams-and-clubhouses
 

Dusty Baker, Scioscia, Jayce Tingler, Fredi Gonzalez, Matheny, Alex Cora (haha), Joe Maddon, Dave Martinez, Sandy Alomar, Jr., Omar Vizquel, Edwin Rodriguez...there are a lot more than you might think.

Dusty baker is 71 years old.  

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