Accountability Starts Monday, August 10th, 2020

[SonofaRoache]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, yeah, just compare the starting line-ups over the last three days.

How many Tigers would be starting on the White Sox?

Arguably, only Schoop and Jacoby Jones.   Cron is out for the season, but had put up much better numbers than EE/Grandal.

 

So losing to DET was pretty much like losing to the 2017-2019 White Sox teams.    (But, as someone noted, White Sox took 11/19 against CLE last year.)

We weren't that bad last year. We were a .500 team in the first half, and if not for injuries and that 10 game losong streak after the break, probably would have ended near .500. 

[GermanSoxFan]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, yeah, just compare the starting line-ups over the last three days.

How many Tigers would be starting on the White Sox?

Arguably, only Schoop and Jacoby Jones.   Cron is out for the season, but had put up much better numbers than EE/Grandal.

 

So losing to DET was pretty much like losing to the 2017-2019 White Sox teams.    (But, as someone noted, White Sox took 11/19 against CLE last year.)

Schoop is the only one. Jacoby Jones is a 4th outfielder at best and Cron put up much better numbers than Grandal and EE in like 50 freaking PAs.  Good teams, even very good teams, lose games and even series against bad teams all the time.

Edited August 13, 2020 by GermanSoxFan

[caulfield12]

https://theathletic.com/1992070/2020/08/13/analyzing-the-white-soxs-aggressive-plate-approach-pitchers-fastball-carry/?source=dailyemail

.

“I definitely wanted to start the party,” said Anderson, who was a double short of the cycle.

“The energizer bunny, baby,” he called himself later.

“Let them sleep, baby, let them sleep,” he said while explaining that his shush gesture after his leadoff home run was directed at his doubters. “They motivated me like ‘who’s going to be the leadoff guy?’ You know, nothing against Luis Robert, but come on, man. Come on.”

“I had 4-for-5 today, I was just taking a little break,” Anderson explained for why the camera caught him lying on his back in the dugout in the top of the ninth.

“I think Daryl motivated me telling me about my timing,” he said, crediting the Sun-Times’ Daryl Van Schouwen for motivating him to make adjustments on off-speed pitches. “Shoutout to Daryl, thank you.”

“I don’t know, Cheryl, it’s a good question,” he said when WBEZ’s Cheryl Raye Stout asked why he didn’t get that elusive double. “I tried, though. I definitely gave it a try.”

[caulfield12]

Fire Renteria gaining steam?

I’m trying to be more economical with my answers, so there’s a temptation to just write “No,” and move on. But between the pandemic effect on team finances, the unusual nature of a season that is more about survival and crisis management than reading Renteria the riot act about proper deployment of Ross Detwiler, I truly don’t sense it, see it, taste it, etc.

The White Sox have pushed back against the notion that anyone has a job for life or scholarship, but as it was described to me, there’s needs to be an affirmative reason for why a coach/manager has to go for someone to be fired in this organization. It’s not a simple case of “Let’s try something different!” but rather, “We’re failing at these specific elements and this coach/manager is specifically failing to address them and also has not shown the ability/willingness to address them going forward AND we think we can find or have already identified someone who would.” (my take, the reason Omar Vizquel was jettisoned, also caring more about winning than development and protecting top prospects

There can be frustration with day-to-day decisions, as Rick Hahn has conceded there will be at times, but I don’t think any of that gets us there with Renteria, nor particularly close.

 

https://theathletic.com/1994354/2020/08/14/white-sox-mailbag-youre-all-nuts-and-i-depend-on-you-to-live/?source=dailyemail

Edited August 14, 2020 by caulfield12

[gusguyman]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Fire Renteria gaining steam?

I’m trying to be more economical with my answers, so there’s a temptation to just write “No,” and move on. But between the pandemic effect on team finances, the unusual nature of a season that is more about survival and crisis management than reading Renteria the riot act about proper deployment of Ross Detwiler, I truly don’t sense it, see it, taste it, etc.

The White Sox have pushed back against the notion that anyone has a job for life or scholarship, but as it was described to me, there’s needs to be an affirmative reason for why a coach/manager has to go for someone to be fired in this organization. It’s not a simple case of “Let’s try something different!” but rather, “We’re failing at these specific elements and this coach/manager is specifically failing to address them and also has not shown the ability/willingness to address them going forward AND we think we can find or have already identified someone who would.” (my take, the reason Omar Vizquel was jettisoned, also caring more about winning than development and protecting top prospects

There can be frustration with day-to-day decisions, as Rick Hahn has conceded there will be at times, but I don’t think any of that gets us there with Renteria, nor particularly close.

 

https://theathletic.com/1994354/2020/08/14/white-sox-mailbag-youre-all-nuts-and-i-depend-on-you-to-live/?source=dailyemail

This quote is the exact opposite of fire Renteria gaining steam

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, gusguyman said:

This quote is the exact opposite of fire Renteria gaining steam

To be more specific, in the mail-in, a fan posed the question whether it was possible the movement to replace him was picking up steam....Fegan doesn’t at all, at least not at the moment.

[caulfield12]

Ooops...2-1.

Edited August 15, 2020 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Knew this thread was coming back.

[wegner]

Accountability starts in game 2.

[caulfield12]

2-2.   The tide has completely reversed again.

WHERE'S OUR VERY OWN NICHOLAS CASTELLANOS?????????????????????????????????

Instead we get washed up and overpaid Parrot Guy, Grandal and Mazara Margarine...every ball just slides into open spaces in RF in patented Daniel Palka fashion.

Edited August 15, 2020 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/luis-robert-eloy-jimenez-homer-in-loss-to-cardinals
 

Jimenez after G2 loss. “We’re going to fight.”

[wegner]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlb.com/whitesox/news/luis-robert-eloy-jimenez-homer-in-loss-to-cardinals
 

Jimenez after G2 loss. “We’re going to fight.”

I saw little to no fight in that team today.  They really should be embarrassed by that effort.

[hi8is]

They need to all eat more guacamole. That is clearly what has been holding them back and I, personally, blame Ricky for not making gallons of it to supply the clubhouse.

Everyone knows guac makes everything better.

[wegner]

19 minutes ago, hi8is said:

They need to all eat more guacamole. That is clearly what has been holding them back and I, personally, blame Ricky for not making gallons of it to supply the clubhouse.

Everyone knows guac makes everything better.

🥑 is the key to world ☮️

[chitownsportsfan]

If there was accountability Eloy wouldn't still be doing his clown show in LF.  Until Eloy gets it into his brain that leadership is more than being a 2 WAR bat with horrific LF defense and leadership this team isn't going anywhere -- for various reasons -- but mostly because it shows a leadership void.

I wish Robert was more vocal because I don't think Eloy being the loudest voice in the Latin part of the locker room is a good thing.  And FWIW I thought the same shit with Eaton and the white guys, so I'm an all opportunity hater.  To me Robert does all the right things on the field.  He hustles his ass off and plays with a level head and I wish he was more outspoken.

Edited August 16, 2020 by chitownsportsfan

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

If there was accountability Eloy wouldn't still be doing his clown show in LF.  Until Eloy gets it into his brain that leadership is more than being a 2 WAR bat with horrific LF defense and leadership this team isn't going anywhere -- for various reasons -- but mostly because it shows a leadership void.

I wish Robert was more vocal because I don't think Eloy being the loudest voice in the Latin part of the lock room is a good thing.  And FWIW I thought the same shit with Eaton and the white guys, so I'm an all opportunity hater.

Robert being a leader after 21 Mlb games is laughable.

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Robert being a leader after 21 Mlb games is laughable.

tell me, when you watch the sox which players look like calm, capable heads?  The rookie Robert stands out imo.  His approach today in his 1st AB was as good as we say all day, including from guys like Grandal and Mazara that are supposed to be "veteran leaders".

Don't even get me started on Jose.  He's cheating on fastballs, and his demise is imminent.

Also I'd like to mention Mendick as a guy that has the right approach.  The book on this team is throw it anywhere near the plate 0-0 and they will chase and you get ahead.  As a pitcher what's easier than that, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE A JUNK BALLER?  Mendick, who scares nobody, is willing, to at least, let the starter throw a couple pitches IN THE ZONE to get an early strike.

There are people in the Sox org that can see this problem, problem is they aren't in power.

Edited August 16, 2020 by chitownsportsfan

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

tell me, when you watch the sox which players look like calm, capable heads?  The rookie Robert stands out imo.  His approach today in his 1st AB was as good as we say all day, including from guys like Grandal and Mazara that are supposed to be "veteran leaders".

Don't even get me started on Jose.  He's cheating, and his demise is imminent.

Having a good approach is very different from being a clubhouse leader.

And how is Jose a cheater? You started yourself, by the way. 😆

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Having a good approach is very different from being a clubhouse leader.

And how is Jose a cheater? You started yourself, by the way. 😆

cheating on fastballs buddy, and once the book is out on doing that, well, even Frank will hit 250.  Jose is an anchor, an anchor on the team WAR.

Edited August 16, 2020 by chitownsportsfan

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

...and Mazara Margarine...every ball just slides into open spaces in RF in patented Daniel Palka fashion.

Anyone could have seen this coming.

When he was acquired, the score had a writer from Dallas on who said he had zero range. If you read through Mazara's fangraphs page, you can see that he has the footspeed of Paul Konerko, only with a spained ankle and a refrigerator tied to his back.

 

I didn't quite hate the move when he was acquired, but I sure do now. I worried about OF defense, and Im stunned that none of the "scouts" could have failed to see that a player acquired for Steele Walker could be so flawed.

 

That aside, I'm back to my default setting of wanting everyone in this organization fired, outside of the grounds keeper.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Anyone could have seen this coming.

When he was acquired, the score had a writer from Dallas on who said he had zero range. If you read through Mazara's fangraphs page, you can see that he has the footspeed of Paul Konerko, only with a spained ankle and a refrigerator tied to his back.

 

I didn't quite hate the move when he was acquired, but I sure do now. I worried about OF defense, and Im stunned that none of the "scouts" could have failed to see that a player acquired for Steele Walker could be so flawed.

 

That aside, I'm back to my default setting of wanting everyone in this organization fired, outside of the grounds keeper.

Mazara is a lesser version of Eloy Jimenez, essentially.

Much better throwing arm, but about 60% of the offensive firepower needed on a corner (typically). 

Of course, with the Sox, Robert's immense power can compensate to an extent for someone like a Leury Garcia or Adam Eaton or whoever we can name (DeAza, for example) that's not going to hit more than 12-15 dingers.

 

The problem is that he has to at least put up a 775-825 OPS in a platoon to have value at that position because of his defensive limitations, overall.

Edited August 16, 2020 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Mazara is a lesser version of Eloy Jimenez, essentially.

Much better throwing arm, but about 60% of the offensive firepower needed on a corner (typically). 

Of course, with the Sox, Robert's immense power can compensate to an extent for someone like a Leury Garcia or Adam Eaton or whoever we can name (DeAza, for example) that's not going to hit more than 12-15 dingers.

 

The problem is that he has to at least put up a 775-825 OPS in a platoon to have value at that position because of his defensive limitations, overall.

Well stated. 

I saw OF defense as being a potential problem when your corner OFers are DHs with gloves. Add into it that Mazara is underwhelming with the bat, and here we are.

 

I wanted Puig (warts and all), but speeding tickets or something. But, my view was that he'd at least not be laughably embarrassing with the glove.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[caulfield12]

The mood with Eloy clowning his way into nets, tarps, side walls, Leury done, Mazara v.  Engel in RF, McCann v.  Grandal for catching time and McCann twice not catching Lucas G leading to disaster and Abreu vs. Keuchel for "veteran leader" really couldn't disintegrate much more precipitously with Puig.

He was well loved in CLE and Cincy by all of his teammates to a man... who give a flying f--k right now, they have something seriously wrong with this organization and it needs to be excised or exorcised or whatever "EX" prefixed word you choose to apply as the cure.

Edited August 16, 2020 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The mood with Eloy clowning his way into nets, tarps, side walls, Leury done, Mazara v.  Engel in RF, McCann v.  Grandal for catching time and McCann twice not catching Lucas G leading to disaster and Abreu vs. Keuchel for "veteran leader" really couldn't disintegrate much more precipitously with Puig.

He was well loved in CLE and Cincy by all of his teammates to a man... who give a flying f--k right now, they have something seriously wrong with this organization and it needs to be excised or exorcised or whatever "EX" prefixed word you choose to apply as the cure.

I think what you're seeing are two things:

 

1. The downside of giving early extensions to young players. If Eloy doesn't give a shit, and he thinks he's already "made it," how can he be motivated to continue to improve? The man's got piles of talent, but how is it that he just sucks out loud at fielding?

2. Poor, weak, accommodating "leadership," both among the field players and the coaching staff. How or why do any of the coaches have their jobs? What do they add to the mix? Among the field players, we were led to believe that Abreu is a leader, but how has he shown that ability?

With that, I think the only way forward is for RR to become more of a disciplinarian, and bench guys when they don't perform. OR, move guys down in the lineup when they continue to perform poorly, rather than letting them stay where they are.

 

This season is starting to get out of hand. I simply refuse to believe that this team isn't more talented than their record shows. Even WITH the injuries. This team currently stands outside the playoffs. And given this team's composition, RR is the guy who has to figure this out.

[southsider2k5]

I love when people pretend to know what is going on in people's heads.