Off days discussion: Best player after Trout?

[caulfield12]

Who would you choose?   Left off a couple of obvious names, like Christian Yelich...

[Jose Abreu]

Betts

[soxfan49]

Tough to say. Bellinger, Betts and Soto are great. In 5 years it might be Robert and Tatis.

[Jack Parkman]

Betts. 

[southsider2k5]

I think it is Betts, but if I were starting a team, i would want one of Acuna ,Tatis or Robert so that I could build around them before they got a $30m annual salary.

[iWiN4PreP]

Acuna no doubt

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Acuna no doubt

Acuna and Soto don't have the premiere defensive value of playing SS, C, CF.

And neither of them are amazing defenders in the first place, let's just call them competent to slightly above average.

 

[fathom]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Acuna and Soto don't have the premiere defensive value of playing SS, C, CF.

And neither of them are amazing defenders in the first place, let's just call them competent to slightly above average.

 

Just say you think it’s Tatis Jr

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, fathom said:

Just say you think it’s Tatis Jr

Which is why the thread was created.

[caulfield12]

I like Lindor’s leadership a lot.

I probably would go Bellinger due to LH bat, power and positional flexibility to play CF, 1B, etc.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is why the thread was created.

Nope, see above.

I didn’t include Robert because it’s not yet justified, but an interesting argument.

Betts would have been my second choice, probably.

So there you go...

[TaylorStSox]

Is this the most transparent thread in Soxtalk history? At least Puigmania wasn't on the main board. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Is this the most transparent thread in Soxtalk history? At least Puigmania wasn't on the main board. 

The injury risk with Tatis is arguably the highest because of the way he plays so recklessly, and the torque created by violent repetitive swings (see Woods, Eldrick Tiger.)
 

Note I didn't include a single pitcher for that very reason.  Too risky.

[caulfield12]

On further thought, could probably be convinced that a healthy Corey Seager belongs, too. 

Interestingly, one name you never hear anymore is Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. Looks like Bichette could be the more valuable player. 

[Balta1701]

I'm substantially annoyed that you don't have Yelich on the list. In 2018-2019, in terms of fWAR, it goes Trout, Betts, Bregman, and Yelich, before a 2 win gap to Rendon, and both Betts and Bregman have been on teams that have "sign stealing issues". Maybe I still vote for Betts, but you put Mr. Trashcan Bang on the list and not Yelich and this annoys me.

Furthermore, if you note the fact that Yelich missed some time with an injury, he's been nearly as effective on a per game basis as Betts, and obviously you're not holding injuries against people based on the other names on this list. Yelich is also the #2 offensive performer in baseball over those 2 years, he's dragged down a bit by his defense. 

Yelich should have Harper's spot in this poll. If I wanted to build a team to win right now and you gave me the choice of Betts Vs. Yelich, it's what, 60-40 Betts but you'd do as much homework as you could to try to avoid second guessing yourself, and then several shots of whiskey would be downed before you made the final decision because that's the only way you'd actually make that call. 

[caulfield12]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm substantially annoyed that you don't have Yelich on the list. In 2018-2019, in terms of fWAR, it goes Trout, Betts, Bregman, and Yelich, before a 2 win gap to Rendon, and both Betts and Bregman have been on teams that have "sign stealing issues". Maybe I still vote for Betts, but you put Mr. Trashcan Bang on the list and not Yelich and this annoys me.

Furthermore, if you note the fact that Yelich missed some time with an injury, he's been nearly as effective on a per game basis as Betts, and obviously you're not holding injuries against people based on the other names on this list. Yelich is also the #2 offensive performer in baseball over those 2 years, he's dragged down a bit by his defense. 

Yelich should have Harper's spot in this poll. If I wanted to build a team to win right now and you gave me the choice of Betts Vs. Yelich, it's what, 60-40 Betts but you'd do as much homework as you could to try to avoid second guessing yourself, and then several shots of whiskey would be downed before you made the final decision because that's the only way you'd actually make that call. 

Yeah, trust me...I followed him closely because he was my standout fantasy league performer all season long, right up there with Bellinger.

This is solely about how BADLY he's looked in a 15-20 game sample size, so, yeah, you're right....not being fair.

I just thought nobody's going to pick him because his numbers this year, but you can certainly make the same argument for Bellinger, for example.

Harper, same reason, also on fantasy team and he was closer to a 2-3 than 10 war player as per usual, so there's a definite recency bias because this is all we've had to go on for the last 6 months and so it's fresh in our memories after missing baseball for so long.

Valid points.   Same with Rendon, although I like to see how his numbers hold up in the AL West first.

 

If I went by PURE potential, you can squint and put Shohei Ohtani in the conversation still, but if the pitching's out of the equation, he becomes more pedestrial as a choice.

[ron883]

I'm going with Tatis Jr, hands down. 

[caulfield12]

And I’m handing out trophies like the Blue Light Special at K-Mart... 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, fathom said:

Just say you think it’s Tatis Jr

Ha. Thank you. I saw the thread and just SMH. Caulfield gonna Caulfield being sooo deceptively clever .Not

 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ha. Thank you. I saw the thread and just SMH. Caulfield gonna Caulfield being sooo deceptively clever .Not

 

That makes zero sense.  He will deliberately be under-voted, just on principle.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 

Sneakier would have been deliberately not including him...thus forcing objective posters to at least consider him in the top 3-5 spots at the very least.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It makes plenty of sense. You are just keeping his name around. He doesn't have to win the poll.

Look , I loved that you posted the long article from the Athletic regarding how Paddy approached Tatis Sr. and everything else in that article.  I had stayed out of much discussion in the past on the trade because I felt uninformed . What you posted changed that. And you took heat for it so even more kudos .

Just keep being you .Take the jabs in stride as typical stupid male bonding rituals of constantly poking each other with a stick. I ll apologize if you feel it's warranted.

 

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It makes plenty of sense. You are just keeping his name around. He doesn't have to win the poll.

Look , I loved that you posted the long article from the Athletic regarding how Paddy approached Tatis Sr. and everything else in that article.  I had stayed out of much discussion in the past on the trade because I felt uninformed . What you posted changed that. And you took heat for it so even more kudos .

Just keep being you .Take the jabs in stride as typical stupid male bonding rituals of constantly poking each other with a stick. I ll apologize if you feel it's warranted.

 

 

 

 

No need.  My life has been an ongoing search for the next Roberto Clemente, from a scouting perspective, haha.

Of course, nobody will ever be able to measure up to his off the field/humanitarian contributions.

 

In my lifetime, Sosa (first 2-3 years), Eric Davis, Mike Cameron (as a Sox fan), Puig, Tatis and Robert are on a short list of the closest.

Luis Robert has way more pop in his bat, much taller and not capable of taking those outside sliders to the opposite field just yet.  In terms of actual hitting approach, Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., could be the closest today, but absolutely nothing else in common.  His father lacked the foot speed but similar outfield arms and ability to drive any pitch within 10-12 inches of the strike zone in all four directions, but especially diving out over the plate and stepping in the bucker and still tripling .  Ichiro Suzuki was amazing.
 

 

[Jose Abreu]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That makes zero sense.  He will deliberately be under-voted, just on principle.

Or he'll be under-voted because he has played in like 90 games and many other players on the list routinely turn in 5+ win seasons

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Or he'll be under-voted because he has played in like 90 games and many other players on the list routinely turn in 5+ win seasons

Conversely, he's broken almost every record in baseball for the first 100 games of a big league career, age 20/21 numbers, first MLB SS to hit 30 homers in his first 100 games, first player to record 30 homers and 20 stolen bases in first 100 career games...the only comparable names that are up there are going to be Griffey, Jr. and A-Rod.