A lot of talk about the offense but.....

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

The White Sox pitching staff has been the unheralded stars of this team. I find it funny that we have a lot of reservations about the future with the pitching - due to injuries and etc - and we have been overly critical of the staff and Rick Renteria's management of it... but one could argue the pitching staff has actually carried the offense equally as much. 

On the season, the 2020 White Sox pitching staff ranks

7th in fWAR
6th in FIP
6th in ERA
 

They've done that and they haven't been lucky per se (.295 BABIP) against, as the Indians may be (267 BABIP Against).

In addition, when you look at their bullpen vs starter breakdown it's been relatively similar. The Bullpen is 5th in FIP and 7th in bullpen WAR.

The offense has been a lot fun, but the pitching staff has been sneakily very very good. 

 

That said boys, don't look now but who leads baseball in position player WAR!?! 

The 2020 Chicago White Sox.

What team leads baseball in WAR? The 2020 Chicago White Sox! Get hyped.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The White Sox pitching staff has been the unheralded stars of this team. I find it funny that we have a lot of reservations about the future with the pitching - due to injuries and etc - and we have been overly critical of the staff and Rick Renteria's management of it... but one could argue the pitching staff has actually carried the offense equally as much. 

On the season, the 2020 White Sox pitching staff ranks

7th in fWAR
6th in FIP
6th in ERA
 

They've done that and they haven't been lucky per se (.295 BABIP) against, as the Indians may be (267 BABIP Against).

In addition, when you look at their bullpen vs starter breakdown it's been relatively similar. The Bullpen is 5th in FIP and 7th in bullpen WAR.

The offense has been a lot fun, but the pitching staff has been sneakily very very good. 

 

That said boys, don't look now but who leads baseball in position player WAR!?! 

The 2020 Chicago White Sox.

What team leads baseball in WAR? The 2020 Chicago White Sox! Get hyped.

Where does the rotation rank?

[Jerksticks]

This mess is definitely all Ricky’s fault.  

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Where does the rotation rank?

7th as well; Cleveland is a light years ahead of everyone else. Holy f*ck. 6 fWAR to 4.2 fWAR for the Rockies and Reds who are in second.

edit; I had this filtered wrong. The sox have 3 negative WAR players - two just haven't played (Collins and Madrigal) and then Nicky.

Sox depth has still been better than expected or portrayed.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[SonofaRoache]

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

7th as well; Cleveland is a light years ahead of everyone else. Holy f*ck. 6 fWAR to 4.2 fWAR for the Rockies and Reds who are in second.

People were dogging on the Sox depth this year, it's actually been spectacular and it's a huge reason why they're #1 in baseball in WAR.

The Sox have zero negative position players despite playing A LOT, and in addition they have 3 of the top 18 position players in the game so far.

When we talk about reservations, we are speaking on the level of multiple championships, as Hahn expects. This rotation is not close to that level yet. They are good enough to own bums and give us a shot at a 7 seed, but can they win a world series next year as is? I wouldn't bank on that and think they are two years away as a rotation. A major TOR einforcement is needed. But yes, they are doing a solid job overall, although 20 games have come against bad offensive teams. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

When we talk about reservations, we are speaking on the level of multiple championships, as Hahn expects. This rotation is not close to that level yet. They are good enough to own bums and give us a shot at a 7 seed, but can they win a world series next year as is? I wouldn't bank on that and think they are two years away as a rotation. A major TOR einforcement is needed. But yes, they are doing a solid job overall, although 20 games have come against bad offensive teams. 

This is just nonsense.

Again, the Sox pitching is 7th in baseball in fWAR; there are 23 teams below them in the rankings. Everyone in the big leagues is good. Obviously the unbalanced schedule favors the White Sox this year as the NL Central isn't great and the bottom of the AL Central is weak, but the Sox have a young staff and bullpen and they're producing.

This is absolutely a bright spot for this team and the future, and to brush it off as "own bums and this is a 7th seed team" as the Sox lead baseball in WAR is just overly negative nonsense. Obviously there's some noise to all statistics 24 games in - especially in a season like this - but the Sox have been good. Beating teams youre better than is arguably more important than beating teams who are better than you in a regular season; especially if you're a good team, as you'll come across far more teams that are worse than better. The rotation needs a boost, and it'll need to continue to mature and etc. Giolito looked fantastic last night and should be a staple atop the rotation for years to come. Keuchel will be Keuchel. Dunning looked exciting. Cease has been BAD, but I think he'll figure it out. I'm happy he's not getting his tits blown off while filling the bases; progress.

If you're not going to be excited about a team that's 24 games into a season and leading baseball in fWAR as a bunch of young guys, IDK what to tell you.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[daggins]

It's fun but with Rodon and Bummer as questionable to return this season and Cease underperforming, things are pretty thin rn. I have a lot more faith in the offense continuing to perform than the pitching.

[SonofaRoache]

36 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is just nonsense.

Again, the Sox pitching is 7th in baseball in fWAR; there are 23 teams below them in the rankings. Everyone in the big leagues is good. Obviously the unbalanced schedule favors the White Sox this year as the NL Central isn't great and the bottom of the AL Central is weak, but the Sox have a young staff and bullpen and they're producing.

This is absolutely a bright spot for this team and the future, and to brush it off as "own bums and this is a 7th seed team" as the Sox lead baseball in WAR is just overly negative nonsense. Obviously there's some noise to all statistics 24 games in - especially in a season like this - but the Sox have been good. Beating teams youre better than is arguably more important than beating teams who are better than you in a regular season; especially if you're a good team, as you'll come across far more teams that are worse than better. The rotation needs a boost, and it'll need to continue to mature and etc. Giolito looked fantastic last night and should be a staple atop the rotation for years to come. Keuchel will be Keuchel. Dunning looked exciting. Cease has been BAD, but I think he'll figure it out. I'm happy he's not getting his tits blown off while filling the bases; progress.

If you're not going to be excited about a team that's 24 games into a season and leading baseball in fWAR as a bunch of young guys, IDK what to tell you.

Our starting rotation is not 7th best in baseball. Its okay to be excited and honest about where we stand. My post pertains to winning championships and not 7th seeds. If we want to win championships, starting pitching will need to be better. Like I said, 20 of our 26 games have come against offenses that suck. We've done the job but must remain realistic. Again being realistic does not mean we can't also be excited. 

[Quin]

The fact that this is with Bummer, Rodon, Lopez, and Kopech out is huge. Dudes are stepping up.

Hahn has spent a decent amount of draft, minor league free agent, and international spending money (that they couldn't use anyway) resources on developing relief arms and this year it's coming to fruition. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

Our starting rotation is not 7th best in baseball. Its okay to be excited and honest about where we stand. My post pertains to winning championships and not 7th seeds. If we want to win championships, starting pitching will need to be better. Like I said, 20 of our 26 games have come against offenses that suck. We've done the job but must remain realistic. Again being realistic does not mean we can't also be excited. 

Agree with this. Obviously they need to continue to improve but its very promising that despite injuries and setbacks, they've performed as well as they have. 

[SonofaRoache]

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Agree with this. Obviously they need to continue to improve but its very promising that despite injuries and setbacks, they've performed as well as they have. 

Here's a question for you. Are you comfortable with our rotation next season in a playoff series? It's a tough spot for Kenny and Rick because they want to develop guys, but it is also apparent that we can't count on Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, or Cease going into next season to be playoff ready. 

[EloyJenkins]

15 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Here's a question for you. Are you comfortable with our rotation next season in a playoff series? It's a tough spot for Kenny and Rick because they want to develop guys, but it is also apparent that we can't count on Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, or Cease going into next season to be playoff ready. 

I think it's simple. Giolito, FA, Keuchel, Cease and Dunning is the starting rotation for 2021 and Kopech needs to ramp his arm up and he replaces either Cease or Dunning if they falter. Kopech can be on a bit of a pitch limitation and if he is blazing your Playoff rotation is Gio/FA/Keuchel/Kopech with Cease used as a Bullpen piece. Rodon is moving to Bullpen or traded and Lopez is 100% getting packaged with something else for a RF trade. 

[35thstreetswarm]

17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Here's a question for you. Are you comfortable with our rotation next season in a playoff series? It's a tough spot for Kenny and Rick because they want to develop guys, but it is also apparent that we can't count on Kopech, Rodon, Lopez, or Cease going into next season to be playoff ready. 

I feel comfortable with Giolito and Keuchel.  I'd like one more front-line starter to emerge.  I think that's most likely to be one of Kopech or Cease, with ReyLo as a dark horse candidate.  None of them are there yet, but there's the rest of this season (for all but Kopech) and all of next season for them to develop. 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to add another TOR via free agency, but it's way too early to write off our current rotation.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Where does the rotation rank?

Rotation was 11th not 7th. my bad.

[southsider2k5]

There is no question that this season the Sox pitching depth, specifically their drafting and development, as well as their minor league scouting, has saved the asses of this team so far.  With injury after injury, they have brought up pitcher after pitcher who has contributed to this start and they have largely been one of the best bullpens in baseball from top to bottom.

[Jerksticks]

It’s absolutely incredible the mass of young talent the Sox have assembled.  The bullpen arms are just incredible assets and there are more on the way.  So glad we don’t have to shell out 30-50 million for a Kimbrel-type guy and STILL be super thin in the bullpen.  
 

For all the shit the Sox have rightfully gotten for being behind the times, they have lapped the field in developing bullpen guys.  They saw it coming and acted on it years ago, with 2020 as a target in mind.  

[chitownsportsfan]

5 hours ago, Quin said:

The fact that this is with Bummer, Rodon, Lopez, and Kopech out is huge. Dudes are stepping up.

Hahn has spent a decent amount of draft, minor league free agent, and international spending money (that they couldn't use anyway) resources on developing relief arms and this year it's coming to fruition. 

Yep.  It's not like money and resources haven't been put into the pen.  And good on Renteria using Foster in a modern smart way.  As for the pitching stats overall: Sox have played some really bad offenses.  This is at best a mediocre pitching staff we all know that.  But with this offense and so far so good defense a mediocre pitching staff is going to make it to the playoffs.

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Our starting rotation is not 7th best in baseball. Its okay to be excited and honest about where we stand. My post pertains to winning championships and not 7th seeds. If we want to win championships, starting pitching will need to be better. Like I said, 20 of our 26 games have come against offenses that suck. We've done the job but must remain realistic. Again being realistic does not mean we can't also be excited. 

Look at the players that are out as well though. The Sox have essentially stared their number 1,2 4,6,7 most of the year including 2 bullpen days. Now thats not horrible as teams always have injuries but I think it's safe to say that this staff is not the one we will see next year. In the playoffs this depth won't matter as they will only need 1,2,4,5 for starters.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yep.  It's not like money and resources haven't been put into the pen.  And good on Renteria using Foster in a modern smart way.  As for the pitching stats overall: Sox have played some really bad offenses.  This is at best a mediocre pitching staff we all know that.  But with this offense and so far so good defense a mediocre pitching staff is going to make it to the playoffs.

Right, this stat is essentially "thank you tigers".

I love our pen right now, but very nervous on our staff. Will feel better if Lopez makes a real comeback even if it means pen for him. And I guess Dunning made me feel better. 

[Dominikk85]

The pen is definitely the positive surprise of the season so far, many thought that would be a weak spot of the team.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Right, this stat is essentially "thank you tigers".

I love our pen right now, but very nervous on our staff. Will feel better if Lopez makes a real comeback even if it means pen for him. And I guess Dunning made me feel better. 

Yeah because the white sox are the only team facing bad teams. These narratives are tiring.

[SonofaRoache]

21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah because the white sox are the only team facing bad teams. These narratives are tiring.

We are 4 and 8 against teams with winning records. We are 9 and 1 against the Tigers and Royals.  This is a very good thing for us and shows how far we've come. However, respect is still earned. If our guys want to be considered one of the best, they will need to prove themselves against the best. We have an opportunity to tell Minnesota and Cleveland that the end is near for them. So Let's do it!

[OmarComing25]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-tale-of-two-pitching-staffs-in-chicago/

Longenhagen with some nice praise for the Sox pitching staff.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

The White Sox lead MLB in team WAR at the near mid-point of the season. Many laughed at the thought of the 2020 White Sox being the 2015 Cubs but that’s what we have here. A team that is already extremely dangerous but hasn’t even reached their peak yet with so many young players still finding their footing.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 hits against in 18 innings. Lets go pitching staff!

Sox have hit more home runs jn the last 7 days than 6 teams have hit all season.