gusguyman Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 12 hours ago, CeaseAndExist said: Ray has been awful this year, and was pretty mediocre in 2019. He's declining at a remarkable rate since his great 2017, and his fastball velo was down over 2mph in 2019 from where it was in 2017. Hard pass, especially with how bad he looks this year (1-3, 8.33 ERA, 2.00 WHIP). He'd be our 7th best starter right now, and I'm sure AZ would have him in the bullpen if they had any other options. JR won't pay for Bauer, but maybe if Hahn turns down the options on Cishek, Encarnacion, and Gio, they could make signing Stroman a possibility. Especially if they moved ReyLo in a trade. Giolito, Keuchel, Cease, Stroman, Rodon/Dunning/Kopech would be a good a really solid roation imo If Bauer sticks to his "1 year contracts only" pledge, I actually think he is one of the few pitchers JR would pay for. Up to a point, I don't think it is the AAV that puts off JR, I think he is terrified of being locked into a long, expensive contract for a player whose arm may fall off at any point. He views it as too risky of an investment (perhaps in part because it is such an opposite concept from how real estate investment works?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, gusguyman said: If Bauer sticks to his "1 year contracts only" pledge, I actually think he is one of the few pitchers JR would pay for. Up to a point, I don't think it is the AAV that puts off JR, I think he is terrified of being locked into a long, expensive contract for a player whose arm may fall off at any point. He views it as too risky of an investment (perhaps in part because it is such an opposite concept from how real estate investment works?) Very true. This would be a contract that would work. He views it as a risk due to the number that have failed going back to Britt Burns and the hip issues as well as Rich Dotson and the shoulder issues. Both occurred very early on in his ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 44 minutes ago, gusguyman said: If Bauer sticks to his "1 year contracts only" pledge, I actually think he is one of the few pitchers JR would pay for. Up to a point, I don't think it is the AAV that puts off JR, I think he is terrified of being locked into a long, expensive contract for a player whose arm may fall off at any point. He views it as too risky of an investment (perhaps in part because it is such an opposite concept from how real estate investment works?) I think he would clash too much with Coop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 I have always believed that Reinsdorf's reluctance to extend long-term deals to pitchers is a result of the Lamar Hoyt situation. Hoyt was handsomely rewarded after the 1983 season, and immediately fell on his face (I believe he was found to be a drug user). I think Jerry at that point said "never again". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 35 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: I think he would clash too much with Coop. 1,000% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 If Chris Sale worked just fine with Don Cooper, why can't Trever Bauer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If Chris Sale worked just fine with Don Cooper, why can't Trever Bauer? Because Bauer is heavy into pitch design and more modern pitching technology than Cooper is. He also doesn’t seem to subscribe to Coopers methodology of sacrificing velo for movement, but I don’t know that for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If Chris Sale worked just fine with Don Cooper, why can't Trever Bauer? Two completely different approaches to pitching. Bauer is set in his ways with regards to pregame prep, etc. I watch every single VLog he produces and I can confidently say he and Cooper would be a disaster together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 37 minutes ago, bear_brian said: I have always believed that Reinsdorf's reluctance to extend long-term deals to pitchers is a result of the Lamar Hoyt situation. Hoyt was handsomely rewarded after the 1983 season, and immediately fell on his face (I believe he was found to be a drug user). I think Jerry at that point said "never again". I doubt that the Jaime Navarro contract left a good impression with him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, hi8is said: Because Bauer is heavy into pitch design and more modern pitching technology than Cooper is. He also doesn’t seem to subscribe to Coopers methodology of sacrificing velo for movement, but I don’t know that for sure. These are the exact things that our pitchers, and especially the ones coming through the minors are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, fathom said: Two completely different approaches to pitching. Bauer is set in his ways with regards to pregame prep, etc. I watch every single VLog he produces and I can confidently say he and Cooper would be a disaster together. Because Chris Sale didn't have a meltdown when the Sox wanted to use him in the pen, or when they asked him to wear a jersey he didn't like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: If Chris Sale worked just fine with Don Cooper, why can't Trever Bauer? Trevor Bauer is a whole different type. He feels (and isn't wrong) that he is self-made as a pitcher. He has a way he works. Sale was just competitive/stubborn about opportunities. But if Coop left Bauer alone i'm sure it'd be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just now, bmags said: Trevor Bauer is a whole different type. He feels (and isn't wrong) that he is self-made as a pitcher. He has a way he works. Sale was just competitive/stubborn about opportunities. But if Coop left Bauer alone i'm sure it'd be fine. I have never gotten the impression that the Sox look to change pitchers until they either need or want changing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: I have never gotten the impression that the Sox look to change pitchers until they either need or want changing. I have gotten that they generally expect to follow their regimens for health and development. They'll let them seek outside help, but not block sox own coaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I have never gotten the impression that the Sox look to change pitchers until they either need or want changing. Exactly. There aren't any coaches who will force somebody to change if the player is successful. This whole idea of Coop and Bauer clashing is stupid, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: Exactly. There aren't any coaches who will force somebody to change if the player is successful. This whole idea of Coop and Bauer clashing is stupid, in my opinion. This. They have always seemed like if it worked, they don't feel the need to change it. I think it would be especially so for a guy coming in from the outside who has already had success doing it a certain way. This isn't a Walt Hriniak type of thing where they are trying to make robots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: These are the exact things that our pitchers, and especially the ones coming through the minors are talking about. The movement toward advanced modern pitching tech has been really recent for us, going back just to what... 2018? You’re absolutely right that we’ve made some great advancements but I really do think that it’s not a crazy thought to think Bauer would want to tread his own path. Guess the question shouldn’t be Cooper / Bauer but rather, would our organization give him freedom over his own processes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Bauer is outspoken, hard-headed, stubborn, fun, hard-working, etc. I don't have problems with those adjectives. He's a lightning rod in a sport with not a lot of lightning rods. Now i think it's fair to ask is that one too many personalities in the clubhouse? Kopech is a big one. Bauer would be a big one. Timmy. etc. I am all for Bauer. We'd have the bad boys of baseball - social media, flare, bat flips, etc. I personally would love it. On the coop front - who cares. a good coach is a guy who can adapt and get the most out of ALL personalities and types. if he can't do that, then maybe his time has passed him by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, fathom said: Two completely different approaches to pitching. Bauer is set in his ways with regards to pregame prep, etc. I watch every single VLog he produces and I can confidently say he and Cooper would be a disaster together. You think knowing everything about Bauer that we do that if he signed here he wouldn't have already cleared the air with Cooper? He's unlikely to sign here for various reasons but if he does, the Sox will already have a plan he can live with, including the dollars on his checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: You think knowing everything about Bauer that we do that if he signed here he wouldn't have already cleared the air with Cooper? He's unlikely to sign here for various reasons but if he does, the Sox will already have a plan he can live with, including the dollars on his checks. Oh it is 100% clear that if we went after Bauer, Cooper would have to be on board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: You think knowing everything about Bauer that we do that if he signed here he wouldn't have already cleared the air with Cooper? He's unlikely to sign here for various reasons but if he does, the Sox will already have a plan he can live with, including the dollars on his checks. Yes I do think they would have to be on board and no, I don’t think it’s likely to happen. I also think he’s likely to sign somewhere with a big Driveline presence. Also another huge factor could be how critical he is of Manfred. I’m skeptical that Reinsdorf would be comfortable of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, fathom said: Yes I do think they would have to be on board and no, I don’t think it’s likely to happen. I also think he’s likely to sign somewhere with a big Driveline presence. Also another huge factor could be how critical he is of Manfred. I’m skeptical that Reinsdorf would be comfortable of this. Yea that's a good point about Manfred. It's just unlikely to happen for various reasons even though on paper it would be a great fit human factors are going against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Without a game today, it’s gonna be a long Thursday. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I have never gotten the impression that the Sox look to change pitchers until they either need or want changing. While this may be the case for most of our pitchers, isn't this exactly what Fulmer complained about, saying he wanted to go back to how he pitched in college? Seemed like he was pretty vocal about the changes that were made on his delivery that he didn't like, and now he's a prominent 1st rd bust as a result*. Edited August 27, 2020 by MiddleCoastBias *at least that's why he believes he busted out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said: While this may be the case for most of our pitchers, isn't this exactly what Fulmer complained about, saying he wanted to go back to how he pitched in college? Seemed like he was pretty vocal about the changes that were made on his delivery that he didn't like, and now he's a prominent 1st rd bust as a result*. Fulmer would fall under the part where he had a ton of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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