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NFL Thread 2020-2021

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3 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

And Trubisky shouldn’t be dropping back to throw from their own 15 with a 3 point lead under 2 minutes.Just a complete failure from the HC and throughout

Agreed, that was just asinine as well. 

The D played well until last week. They entered the GB game 3rd in DVOA despite facing the toughest schedule of offenses of any team in the NFL. I think a bunch of guys are making business decisions. 

That being said, Pagano sucks. They could be elite if he had a clue. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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It's pretty simple, look at total rushing yards and yard per carry in the second half vs the first half. When you're playing not to lose, you're relying on the run game and short passes instead of opening up your playbook, which limits the effectiveness of your offense and makes it easier for defense to stop you. Why did not play not to lose? Their offense is still bad. I'll give credit that this offense looks a bit better under Trubisky because of his mobility, but that's about it. I've seen nothing today that suggests that this offense is capable of moving the ball against an average defense.

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8 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

But Bears did not score 45 today, they scored 23 in the first half and 7 in the second half. The lack of confidence on this offense is why they were playing conservative and trying to not lose the game, and they ended up losing because of it. The playing not to lose plan has been a theme under this Nagy coached team, which has resulted in a lot of ugly wins,

Hold on just a minute. I hear, read, listen to Bears fans all day long asking to play to the strengths. Mitch sucks on the deep ball, Mitch sucks in the pocket, the OLine is trash. Nagy finally has a gameplan that protects him and plays to his strength. The Bears score 30. And the loss is on him? WOW.

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

With the percentage of cap allocated to the defense, losing when the offense scores 30 is completely unacceptable. 

Thank you. The cap, the resources, and the fact that they've already shown dominance when they had less talent under Fangio. And the problem is, the schemes suck. Bears fans should root for improvement everywhere.

 

The defense is better than the offense. Well the bar is low. How is the defense relative to the talent on defense? How is it relative to the league? Are they meeting expectations, have they been meeting expectations, etc?

Same goes for offense and special teams. If the goal is a championship, you look for a solution in all areas, not just one.

 

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9 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Hold on just a minute. I hear, read, listen to Bears fans all day long asking to play to the strengths. Mitch sucks on the deep ball, Mitch sucks in the pocket, the OLine is trash. Nagy finally has a gameplan that protects him and plays to his strength. The Bears score 30. And the loss is on him? WOW.

Thank you. The cap, the resources, and the fact that they've already shown dominance when they had less talent under Fangio. And the problem is, the schemes suck. Bears fans should root for improvement everywhere.

 

The defense is better than the offense. Well the bar is low. How is the defense relative to the talent on defense? How is it relative to the league? Are they meeting expectations, have they been meeting expectations, etc?

Same goes for offense and special teams. If the goal is a championship, you look for a solution in all areas, not just one.

 

Once again unless your purposely putting your head in the sand the defense has been top 10 most of the year by most metrics and the offense has been abysmal for the majority of Nagys tenure outside of Mitch playing good against the Lions only. Everyone sees the defense isn’t as dominant as it once was but the HC was in charge of the offense and getting it at LEAST league average and he failed to do even that so yea we all are more than fine firing not just Nagy and his staff but the FO as well 

Edited by TheTruth05

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3 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Hold on just a minute. I hear, read, listen to Bears fans all day long asking to play to the strengths. Mitch sucks on the deep ball, Mitch sucks in the pocket, the OLine is trash. Nagy finally has a gameplan that protects him and plays to his strength. The Bears score 30. And the loss is on him? WOW.

The bold still an issue after today. That game plan worked for a half, but failed badly on the last 2 drives. I don't know, on those drives had the run game been better or Mitch not fumbling or throwing a ball on a 3rd and 5 3 yards short of the first down, we might have sealed the deal.

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12 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

Once again unless your purposely putting your head in the sand the defense has been top 10 most of the year by most metrics and the offense has been abysmal for the majority of Nagys tenure outside of Mitch playing good against the Lions only. Everyone sees the defense isn’t as dominant as it once was but the HC was in charge of the offense and getting it at LEAST league average and he failed to do even that so yea we all are more than fine firing not just firing Nagy and his staff but the FO as well 

The Bears had given up 20 points or more 4 times in the 1st 10 games. The most points they gave up up until then was 26. 

IIRC 2 of the times they gave up 20+ the opponent scored on defense. They were 3rd in the NFL in DVOA leading into the Packers game. They obviously have the talent. 

The last two: 

41 and 34. 

The team has to have quit....even though Pagano sucks. Up until that point, they had been good because of the talent and in spite of Pagano. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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6 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

The bold still an issue after today. That game plan worked for a half, but failed badly on the last 2 drives. I don't know, on those drives had the run game been better or Mitch not fumbling or throwing a ball on a 3rd and 5 3 yards short of the first down, we might have sealed the deal.

In the end, I don't want it to get confused. The Bears biggest problem isn't even coaching, it's Pace. Asset management is the number one job of a GM and he's been at the league bottom whether it be draft capital, cap, or talent. He's hit on some mid tier picks, and that's it.

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2 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

In the end, I don't want it to get confused. The Bears biggest problem isn't even coaching, it's Pace. Asset management is the number one job of a GM and he's been at the league bottom whether it be draft capital, cap, or talent. He's hit on some mid tier picks, and that's it.

I share the same sentiment on Pace, but Nagy doesn't get away from criticism today. The team has not been able to play 4 good quarters of football this year even against bad teams, and is inept when playing with the lead, it showed again today. If it's one or two games, you could point to the underlying symptoms and make adjustments there, but if it's all freaking year, it's on the GM, the head coach, all of them.

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58 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Typically Chicago sports fan. "Nagy is my scapegoat and until he's gone, I don't care what anyone else does."

Bears ran the shit out of the ball today. They moved Mitch out of the pocket. They did everything right on offense. Defense is why they lost the game. And yet, everyone continues to ignore the defense.

Not me - I saw another good game out of Mitch and offense did nice job. Could they have done even better - sure, but overall that was a pretty darn good offensive performance. 
 

I agree Pagano is not good and in general leaves a ton on field. Defense played very poor. Lots of miscommunications on field and soft coverage and yet another week of non existent pass coverage. 
 

I hope Mitch keeps playing well 

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3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Not me - I saw another good game out of Mitch and offense did nice job. Could they have done even better - sure, but overall that was a pretty darn good offensive performance. 
 

I agree Pagano is not good and in general leaves a ton on field. Defense played very poor. Lots of miscommunications on field and soft coverage and yet another week of non existent pass coverage. 
 

I hope Mitch keeps playing well 

You agree that the D is really talented to have been as good as they were in spite of Pagano for 10 weeks, right? 

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The lions are bad with a new head coach mid season and the bears lost to them.

Theyve lost 6 straight. 
 

They have no QB, little offensive talent and an underperforming front four in defense where all their money is.

Of course it isn’t one guy. 

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1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

I would honestly look to draft an O-Line first. I don't want another Joe Burrow situation here.

You take what the draft gives you.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

You take what the draft gives you.

Agreed. 

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45 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

And Trubisky shouldn’t be dropping back to throw from their own 15 with a 3 point lead under 2 minutes.Just a complete failure from the HC and throughout

Very true and why can't this team score in the third quarter?

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6 minutes ago, bmags said:

You take what the draft gives you.

i think if you have someone at QB you can live with yes but your only as good as your QB makes you (as were seeing with Foles/Trubisky) if you’re close enough to swing at a top QB you swing for it. Pace swung draft capital just to move up a spot. He got it horribly wrong but I’m okay with the mentality.

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16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You agree that the D is really talented to have been as good as they were in spite of Pagano for 10 weeks, right? 

Yes

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Just now, Chisoxfn said:

Yes

On another sports forum I argue that point. There are people that think that the Bears D has average talent. I cannot understand that point of view. 

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9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

On another sports forum I argue that point. There are people that think that the Bears D has average talent. I cannot understand that point of view. 

You might be right, but they gave up a 96-yard drive in the fourth quarter with very little knocked off the clock. And Stafford piled up the yardage because he had all day in the pocket. I never thought this game was in control. I was not shocked that the Lions won. I think this defense is overrated. It tends to wilt in the fourth quarter. And Andrian Peterson practically walked into the end zone for the winning score.

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10 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

You might be right, but they gave up a 96-yard drive in the fourth quarter with very little knocked off the clock. And Stafford piled up the yardage because he had all day in the pocket. I never thought this game was in control. I was not shocked that the Lions won. I think this defense is overrated. It tends to wilt in the fourth quarter. And Andrian Peterson practically walked into the end zone for the winning score.

I think they have the ability to be borderline elite if they were more aggressive.

On paper, when Goldman is inserted there are no holes on the D at all. This is as complete of a unit as you can get in the NFL. It should be top 5 at least. They're middle of the pack.  That's on coaching. 

They have too much talent at too many places to be average. 

The only explanation for them being average is if Mack has declined and is merely good, but not an elite talent anymore and Quinn has completely lost it. Both are possible, and I've accounted for that possibility. But I'm not sure because I think Pagano is misusing both players. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think they have the ability to be borderline elite if they were more aggressive.

On paper, when Goldman is inserted there are no holes on the D at all. This is as complete of a unit as you can get in the NFL. It should be top 5 at least. They're middle of the pack.  That's on coaching. 

They have too much talent at too many places to be average. 

The only explanation for them being average is if Mack has declined and is not an elite talent anymore and Quinn has completely lost it. 

All I know is the LIons were deep in their own territory late in the game and 10 points down. A solid defense nails that one. Easily.

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1 minute ago, NWINFan said:

All I know is the LIons were deep in their own territory late in the game and 10 points down. A solid defense nails that one. Easily.

Did you notice how soft the coverage was? That's on Pagano. 

It was ye olde prevent defense prevents you from winning. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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34 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

On another sports forum I argue that point. There are people that think that the Bears D has average talent. I cannot understand that point of view. 

Part of it is defense is really hard in this no crowd world (just think what that means in regards bears offense). 
 

I just don’t think Pagano runs much any sort of a real advantageous scheme and don’t like his very conservative approach. It would make sense for a defense that has minimum talent - not this unit. 

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1 hour ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Typically Chicago sports fan. "Nagy is my scapegoat and until he's gone, I don't care what anyone else does."

Bears ran the shit out of the ball today. They moved Mitch out of the pocket. They did everything right on offense. Defense is why they lost the game. And yet, everyone continues to ignore the defense.

31/140 might be "running the shit out of the ball" for Nagy.  The offense scored 7 points in the 2nd half and gave away the game winning 7 points at the end of the game.  The defense is/was way overrated and the offensive play calling was garbage.  Whoever called plays, played to not lose and it still blew up in their face.  They took a 10 point lead and then proceeded to run 3 series, that totaled 9 plays and 0 yards, plus the game losing turnover.  It was a complete failure from both sides of the ball.......

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