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Yearnin' for Yermin

Stone's Throwing of Shade at Ricky

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Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I think your expectations here are out of line.  No one is going to hit on the "vast majority" of these types of signings.  Guys who are signing 1 year deals are signing them because they weren't good enough for long term deals.  So why the surprise when they don't put up big numbers?  This is the lottery ticket section of free agency.  This is where you finish filling and balancing your roster out for a particular year.  Expecting Miguel Gonzalez types of signings to put up big WAR seasons is totally misunderstanding what these signings are for.

It's not about expectations.  On the current team, right now, it's about blocking guys that should be given a look.  Signing a guy like EE didn't help this team.  It's hurt them by not seeing what they have in young guys.  This should have been a year to see what we have in some of those guys.  Obviously, that's just one example.  But that's what I was talking about.  Not so much that he hit on his lotto tickets.  I wouldn't even have as much of an issue with it if he didn't come out and say they weren't going to be signing those types of guys and then, boom John Jay types come on down.

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18 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes it is.  Yoan Moncada didn't just forget how to hit, especially when it is painfully obvious what his issue is.

Yoan's approach at the plate has been questionable. It's not just him being late on pitches or not hitting them with authority. Hopefully next year is a fresh and productive bounce back for him. 

Edited by SonofaRoache

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Just now, soulfly said:

It's not about expectations.  On the current team, right now, it's about blocking guys that should be given a look.  Signing a guy like EE didn't help this team.  It's hurt them by not seeing what they have in young guys.  This should have been a year to see what we have in some of those guys.  Obviously, that's just one example.  But that's what I was talking about.  Not so much that he hit on his lotto tickets.  I wouldn't even have as much of an issue with it if he didn't come out and say they weren't going to be signing those types of guys and then, boom John Jay types come on down.

For the record

 

#1 people need to stop taking Rick Hahn statements literally.  He has flat out said that isn't going to tell the general public the in depth details of his plans, and in fact he would be more than willing to mislead them if it served the teams purposes.  Being upset that they Sox said one thing and did another over roster filler type players is a gigantic waste of time.  Every GM signs these players. 

#2, If the team is signing veterans that block younger players, it should be an INCREDIBLY clear signal that the team doesn't think that player is either ready for the big time, will ever be ready for the big time, or that they at least have enough doubts about a particular young player that they want a back up plan for them.  In the case of Edwin, you are talking about a guy with  LONG track record.  You will also notice that even with the many injuries and roster shuffling, that guys like Collins and Mercedes were WAY down the list of guys they were willing to use.  This should be a big red flag that the Sox do not believe they are ready today, or just aren't ever going to be good enough that they are willing to let them play and learn.  I know back up QB syndrome is a thing among fans, but it is should be crystal clear that the Sox do not believe in Zach Collins and Yermin Mercedes as of now.

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record

 

#1 people need to stop taking Rick Hahn statements literally.  He has flat out said that isn't going to tell the general public the in depth details of his plans, and in fact he would be more than willing to mislead them if it served the teams purposes.  Being upset that they Sox said one thing and did another over roster filler type players is a gigantic waste of time.  Every GM signs these players. 

#2, If the team is signing veterans that block younger players, it should be an INCREDIBLY clear signal that the team doesn't think that player is either ready for the big time, will ever be ready for the big time, or that they at least have enough doubts about a particular young player that they want a back up plan for them.  In the case of Edwin, you are talking about a guy with  LONG track record.  You will also notice that even with the many injuries and roster shuffling, that guys like Collins and Mercedes were WAY down the list of guys they were willing to use.  This should be a big red flag that the Sox do not believe they are ready today, or just aren't ever going to be good enough that they are willing to let them play and learn.  I know back up QB syndrome is a thing among fans, but it is should be crystal clear that the Sox do not believe in Zach Collins and Yermin Mercedes as of now.

Ok :gosox1:

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

For the record

 

#1 people need to stop taking Rick Hahn statements literally.  He has flat out said that isn't going to tell the general public the in depth details of his plans, and in fact he would be more than willing to mislead them if it served the teams purposes.  Being upset that they Sox said one thing and did another over roster filler type players is a gigantic waste of time.  Every GM signs these players. 

#2, If the team is signing veterans that block younger players, it should be an INCREDIBLY clear signal that the team doesn't think that player is either ready for the big time, will ever be ready for the big time, or that they at least have enough doubts about a particular young player that they want a back up plan for them.  In the case of Edwin, you are talking about a guy with  LONG track record.  You will also notice that even with the many injuries and roster shuffling, that guys like Collins and Mercedes were WAY down the list of guys they were willing to use.  This should be a big red flag that the Sox do not believe they are ready today, or just aren't ever going to be good enough that they are willing to let them play and learn.  I know back up QB syndrome is a thing among fans, but it is should be crystal clear that the Sox do not believe in Zach Collins and Yermin Mercedes as of now.

Also, EE was signed before anyone knew there wouldn't be minor league season.

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Just now, Buehrle5687 said:

Also, EE was signed before anyone knew there wouldn't be minor league season.

He was brought in to mentor the Latino players along with Abreu.  I do not think they can walk back from that as easily as it sounds.  Vaughan had a great spring training but they were all in on Edwin and couldn't walk back from that once post summer camp hit. 

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Signing EE was the right move at the time. He is a quality bat and they didn't know Abreu would go nuts. Collins and Vaughn were probably not in the plans for this season. Signing Grandal over McCann is the right move and I have no problem with that. Trading for Mazara over signing Ozuna or trading for Joc was a problem. Not giving more at bats to McCann over EE a few weeks ago was a problem. Playing Mazara over Engel is still a problem. Lineup construction and order is still a problem. 

Go Sox!

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8 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

He was brought in to mentor the Latino players along with Abreu.  I do not think they can walk back from that as easily as it sounds.  Vaughan had a great spring training but they were all in on Edwin and couldn't walk back from that once post summer camp hit. 

I think they would've kept Vaughn in the minors for service time reasons, even if they thought he was ready.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

the Sox do not believe in Zach Collins

There is certainly a reason the 2020 first round pick is on the team, and probably poised for a big role in the postseason and the 2016 one is not. 

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Going into a 2020 season you expect to be competitive banking on Andrew Vaughn and Zack Collins (in addition to also banking on Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal) is a bad plan. Bringing in a guy that would block Andrew Vaughn long term (ahem, Nick Castellanos) is a bad plan. Encarnacion and Mazara has been a miss, but the process was right. 

Edited by mqr

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14 minutes ago, mqr said:

There is certainly a reason the 2020 first round pick is on the team, and probably poised for a big role in the postseason and the 2016 one is not. 

Seems obvious to me.

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20 minutes ago, mqr said:

Going into a 2020 season you expect to be competitive banking on Andrew Vaughn and Zack Collins is a bad plan. Bringing in a guy that would block Andrew Vaughn long term (ahem, Nick Castellanos) is a bad plan. Encarnacion and Mazara has been a miss, but the process was right. 

As I stated at the time, this one is false. I did not argue the Encarnacion one was a bad signing, because even if there were other guys we could have given the playing time to, all it cost was money over 1 year. The thought process on Mazara - giving up guys we have control over for multiple years in exchange for low ceiling guys (even if he performs well he gets more expensive next year then goes to free agency) was and continues to be a bad thought process, and his performance this season just illustrates the downside risk even more. The only thing keeping it from looking really bad is that the player we gave up for him currently isn't off having success, but do that a few times and it will backfire on you badly as we've seen many times with this franchise. 

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On 9/23/2020 at 4:11 PM, mqr said:

There is certainly a reason the 2020 first round pick is on the team, and probably poised for a big role in the postseason and the 2016 one is not. 

what are you insinuating?  They dont think Collins is good?  They would rather use McCann as the backup?

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1 minute ago, joesaiditstrue said:

what are you insinuating?  They dont think Collins is good?  

Correct

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On 9/23/2020 at 4:16 PM, mqr said:

Going into a 2020 season you expect to be competitive banking on Andrew Vaughn and Zack Collins (in addition to also banking on Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal) is a bad plan. Bringing in a guy that would block Andrew Vaughn long term (ahem, Nick Castellanos) is a bad plan. Encarnacion and Mazara has been a miss, but the process was right. 

Nothing about bringing in Nomar Mazara reflects good process.  We got historically bad production out of RF in 2019 and instead of finding a nice 2 to 3 win player they gambled on a project that had only been slightly above replacement level in his four year career.  Unfortunately that gamble didn’t pay off and now we still have a massive hole in RF.

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I worry that Steve’s mouth (or fingers) are going to get him canned. I think this front office would be more prone to cut him then RR

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1 hour ago, ShoeLessRob said:

I worry that Steve’s mouth (or fingers) are going to get him canned. I think this front office would be more prone to cut him then RR

Would be lying if I said I hadn’t thought of that as well.

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1 hour ago, ShoeLessRob said:

I worry that Steve’s mouth (or fingers) are going to get him canned. I think this front office would be more prone to cut him then RR

One of the things that defined 2019 was the lack of professionalism from the organization. You had Hahn outright lying to the fanbase the whole offseason so he could sell season tickets, you had Stone publicly complaining about the fans demanding more after years of mediocrity, and you had Renteria saying "F*** you" publicly when someone in the press dared to ask him how he incorporated any analytics into his decision making when it was relevant to what they were discussing at the time. 

They seem to be ok with this. 

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Nothing about bringing in Nomar Mazara reflects good process.  We got historically bad production out of RF in 2019 and instead of finding a nice 2 to 3 win player they gambled on a project that had only been slightly above replacement level in his four year career.  Unfortunately that gamble didn’t pay off and now we still have a massive hole in RF.

Kole Calhoun would be 2nd on this team in home runs. 

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

One of the things that defined 2019 was the lack of professionalism from the organization. You had Hahn outright lying to the fanbase the whole offseason so he could sell season tickets, you had Stone publicly complaining about the fans demanding more after years of mediocrity, and you had Renteria saying "F*** you" publicly when someone in the press dared to ask him how he incorporated any analytics into his decision making when it was relevant to what they were discussing at the time. 

They seem to be ok with this. 

Lack of class and professionalism has been a hallmark of Reinsdorf's organizations. Who wants to go to a place where a boss is allowed to physically choke a subordinate without any consequences?

Posters here claim the White Sox managerial job is a "dream job", but no competent professional is going to work for Jerry and the other two. You only attract former players or current coaches with nowhere else to go. Managers can't bring in their coaches, they have a collection of Jerry's broken toys lined up for you that aren't going anywhere as long as Jerry is there. Cooper has seen ALL THREE NORTH KOREAN SUPREME LEADERS come and go and is somehow still here.

The fish rots at the head, and it's been rotting for an extremely long time. Don't expect it to change until the fish is gone and time passes for the stench to clear. 

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5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Nothing about bringing in Nomar Mazara reflects good process.  We got historically bad production out of RF in 2019 and instead of finding a nice 2 to 3 win player they gambled on a project that had only been slightly above replacement level in his four year career.  Unfortunately that gamble didn’t pay off and now we still have a massive hole in RF.

Move  Robert to RF to fill that hole and put Engel in CF.  Engel looks like he should be a full time player and CF is his best position. He  really knows how to time his leap and make some great leaping catches at the wall.

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8 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Kole Calhoun would be 2nd on this team in home runs. 

I didn’t want Calhoun at the time (was hoping for something more substantial), but damn would he have been a huge upgrade over Mazara.

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12 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

I don't know that I'd agree about leaving Cordero in, but regardless, Stoney wasn't a fan.

 

Cordero shouldn't have been in to begin with either.  People are over looking that because the Rodon decision was such a bonkers terrible one.

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