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Stone's Throwing of Shade at Ricky

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Just now, Green Line said:

How many homers has Eloy hit in the bottom of the 9th inning in games where he might otherwise have been subbed out for defense is the correct question, actually.  Those games would actually have to go to the bottom of the 9th too...

It doesn't just have to be a home run. A lead off single or walk or double could help.  But you are correct in that these are the questions that need to be asked in determining which decision gives you a higher probability of winning the game.

Like I said earlier, it's a great discussion and I like hearing both sides if people would actually be willing to discuss it instead of saying "All that matters is keeping the Twins from scoring that inning."

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Just now, Green Line said:

Worst manager in Sox history.. other than Ventura.

Ventura isn’t even the worst manager they’ve ever had. 

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11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I really disliked RR as the manager. That being said, he’s probably going to win AL manager of the year and I don’t see the Sox letting him go after that (or anytime soon, frankly). 

Not to derail the thread with positivity, but could the Sox win all of the following:

 

Manager of the year

Executive of the year

ROTY

MVP

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4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are the one who is peddling the idea of managing scared, not me.  I just can't figure how where this "logic" begins and ends, and more importantly why it is so inconsistent.

I'm sorry that I made a post that you didn't understand.

I'm sorry that I was "peddling an idea" by typing "With a 2 run lead you make the defensive sub. You dont manage scared."

That was the only time I used the phrase or mentioned it. 

I also apologize that you somehow you can't figure out the logic behind; playing for the last three outs and not 3 potential outs that don't exist at the moment is not managing scared, but playing for 3 outs that only happen if you blow a lead is managing scared.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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How many 2 run leads have the Sox blown in the top of the 9th this year?  Any?  Add that into the cake too...  The chance that Eloy's bat in the bottom of the 9th would be needed is so unlikely.  The chance that Eloy commits a fuckup in the top of the inning in LF?  Probable.

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2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Ricky is so bad at his job the White Sox have lost 5 of the last 30 games. 

Twins fans want their manager gone and they've had success the last few years. The Royals fans wanted Yost gone after making b2b world series appearances. The Cubs wanted Maddon gone after winning a title, 3 straight NLCS appearances, and a nice 5 year run. But Ricky is okay because we've dominated the Pirates, Royals, and Tigers? I love the play on the field but as I said, there is a big picture. Ricky needs to get better, period. I want him to and root for him to, but we need to see it. 

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2 minutes ago, beautox said:

Thats playing scared at home, you have the lead by 2 going into the top of the 9th expecting to win, RR was asleep at the wheel and worried about a tie situation going to the bottom of the 9th with Eloy up, Why? Dyson in LF is the appropriate move. 

I think Ray Ray's description that the correct move is to optimize for defense is right, I'm just saying that it's not this insane move to keep Eloy in knowing he's first up in the bottom of the 9th. But these adjectives that he was "scared" but also...asleep, that is just whining. I don't think we are going to flip our outfield every 9th inning from hereon out. Had Eloy just batted in the 8th he'd likely have been subbed. If it was the playoffs he'd likely have been subbed. He took a shot, trusted Eloy, and he likely won't for rest of season.

He's done much worse stuff than this. Eloy should just catch the ball.

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1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Twins fans want their manager gone and they've had success the last few years. The Royals fans wanted Yost gone after making b2b world series appearances. The Cubs wanted Maddon gone after winning a title, 3 straight NLCS appearances, and a nice 5 year run. But Ricky is okay because we've dominated the Pirates, Royals, and Tigers? I love the play on the field but as I said, there is a big picture. Ricky needs to get better, period. I want him to and root for him to, but we need to see it. 

Fans are idiots for the most part Roache; I am in that group of idiots. 

Everyone has the answers from their couch. It's just the way sports and athletics make us feel. Reality is there's much more to many of these decisions and painting them all as black and white is fun for forums but not reality. In reality, turnover is really bad. The professional world teaches us that continuity drives success, but in sports that is ignored often because of fan and local pressures.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm sorry that I made a post that you didn't understand.

I'm sorry that I was "peddling an idea" by typing "With a 2 run lead you make the defensive sub. You dont manage scared."

That was the only time I used the phrase or mentioned it. 

Somehow you can't figure out the logic behind; playing for the last three outs and not 3 potential outs that don't exist at the moment is not managing scared, but playing for 3 outs that only happen if you blow a lead is managing scared.

Why is the line there?  Why doesn't the closer working multiple innings come into the equation?  Why didn't we get mad about Yolmer and McCann not subbing in for the same reasons?

You are the one throwing around loaded phrases and only applying them where you see fit here.  Especially in a situation where the manager has already managed incredibly aggressively with his bullpen and the Engel situation.  Don't get hurt feelings now from your own words.

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As a meatball fan like most of us, I enjoy Stoney’s hot takes. With that said, I think he’s taking it too far.  For someone who spent all offseason trying to showcase how much he knew was going on in the organization, it’s a bad look.

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3 minutes ago, chitown87 said:

Not to derail the thread with positivity, but could the Sox win all of the following:

 

Manager of the year

Executive of the year

ROTY

MVP

And what's really wild, is there will be upset Sox fans if RR wins Manager of the Year.

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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think Ray Ray's description that the correct move is to optimize for defense is right, I'm just saying that it's not this insane move to keep Eloy in knowing he's first up in the bottom of the 9th. But these adjectives that he was "scared" but also...asleep, that is just whining. I don't think we are going to flip our outfield every 9th inning from hereon out. Had Eloy just batted in the 8th he'd likely have been subbed. If it was the playoffs he'd likely have been subbed. He took a shot, trusted Eloy, and he likely won't for rest of season.

He's done much worse stuff than this. Eloy should just catch the ball.

There it is.  The point of this all.  Talk about playing the percentages etc, but when you start using phrases like this, the posts lose a lot of meaning and clarity.

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3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why is the line there?  Why doesn't the closer working multiple innings come into the equation?  Why didn't we get mad about Yolmer and McCann not subbing in for the same reasons?

You are the one throwing around loaded phrases and only applying them where you see fit here.  Especially in a situation where the manager has already managed incredibly aggressively with his bullpen and the Engel situation.  Don't get hurt feelings now from your own words.

Why would McCann sub in? Who would Yolmer replace? What?

Who is getting hurt? 

I'm being attacked for "defending" Renteria and "attacking" Renteria in the same thread. This is pretty hilarious. Gotta love the internet. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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5 minutes ago, Green Line said:

How many 2 run leads have the Sox blown in the top of the 9th this year? 

42.

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1 minute ago, bmags said:

I think Ray Ray's description that the correct move is to optimize for defense is right, I'm just saying that it's not this insane move to keep Eloy in knowing he's first up in the bottom of the 9th. But these adjectives that he was "scared" but also...asleep, that is just whining. I don't think we are going to flip our outfield every 9th inning from hereon out. Had Eloy just batted in the 8th he'd likely have been subbed. If it was the playoffs he'd likely have been subbed. He took a shot, trusted Eloy, and he likely won't for rest of season.

He's done much worse stuff than this. Eloy should just catch the ball.

Agreed he should just catch the ball, but by the players own account this was a "playoff" game. Eloy's constant double clutches and ability to turn singles into extra base hits at this stage of the season should not be slept on and yes thinking about the bottom of the 9th instead of focusing on winning the top of the 9th is just bad managing at home; put your best team forward in the given situation, Dyson, Robert & Engel provide that for Colome. 

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8 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Worst manager in Sox history.. other than Ventura.

You must be pretty young if you think Robin is our worst manager ever.

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6 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think Ray Ray's description that the correct move is to optimize for defense is right, I'm just saying that it's not this insane move to keep Eloy in knowing he's first up in the bottom of the 9th. But these adjectives that he was "scared" but also...asleep, that is just whining. I don't think we are going to flip our outfield every 9th inning from hereon out. Had Eloy just batted in the 8th he'd likely have been subbed. If it was the playoffs he'd likely have been subbed. He took a shot, trusted Eloy, and he likely won't for rest of season.

He's done much worse stuff than this. Eloy should just catch the ball.

I agree with you by the way, and I certainly don't think it was a huge deal or a big lapse in judgement by the manager. I just thought the optimal move would be to play Dyson, but as I've always said there are personalities and etc involved. I'd imagine Eloy will want to stop embarrassing himself at some point though.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

You must be pretty young if you think Robin is our worst manager ever.

No, I just have strong feelings about him.

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Just now, Green Line said:

No, I just have strong feelings about him.

I don't see how anyone who lived through Terry Bevington's jackassery could feel that ANYONE else has been worse.

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I would have yanked Eloy. 

But there’s all this consternation about lineup construction and pitching decisions, meanwhile the Sox have the best offense in the AL and the best team ERA over the past month. It’s absurd. 

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6 minutes ago, fathom said:

As a meatball fan like most of us, I enjoy Stoney’s hot takes. With that said, I think he’s taking it too far.  For someone who spent all offseason trying to showcase how much he knew was going on in the organization, it’s a bad look.

Yeah, I also find it ironic given how hard Steve has been on the negative fans and how much he's been telling them to enjoy the product you've been waiting for. 

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7 minutes ago, fathom said:

As a meatball fan like most of us, I enjoy Stoney’s hot takes. With that said, I think he’s taking it too far.  For someone who spent all offseason trying to showcase how much he knew was going on in the organization, it’s a bad look.

It wouldn't shock me if he "retires" this off season.

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