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Dominikk85

Ricky is not getting fired and he is winning manager of the year

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It should be noted that this team quit having fun the last couple weeks. Was that RRs fault or was the pressure too much for them? Did they give up on RR? I think they should find out what the players want.

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27 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

It should be noted that this team quit having fun the last couple weeks. Was that RRs fault or was the pressure too much for them? Did they give up on RR? I think they should find out what the players want.

The team quit having fun because 1) the manager didn't do a good job keeping the clubhouse on an even keel.  They rode way too fucking high on their own supply at times this year.  And 2) the same manager that let the good times roll wasn't capable of putting the team in the best position to win on a nightly basis.  This manifested itself when the team played better clubs and wasn't hitting the leather off the ball every night.

I've said it a million times chemistry comes from winning, not the other way around.  That said, it's the manager's job to keep the clubhouse grounded and not let the team get too emotionally high or low during a season while putting them in the best position tactically and strategically to win every night: can anybody say Renteria did that this year?  Hell no.

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The Sox rarely fire managers so I guess the decision is when the contract is up. 

That podcast was interesting. The issue is he often repeats his mistakes. 

This organization rarely puts pressure on leadership and I think that eventually trickles down to players.

If it were like the NFL he would lose his job.

 

Edited by kitekrazy
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3 hours ago, WBWSF said:

1) The Angels just fired there GM Billy Eppler who hired Joe Maddon this year. 2) The new Angels GM  fires Maddon and brings in his own manager. 3} The White Sox fire RR and bring in Maddon to manage the White Sox.

This is why you will never be the GM. First, the Angels owe Maddon too much money. They aren't going to fire him. And if they did, to sign him would cost too much money. The Sox don't like high profiled managers. When is the last time they ever brought one in? Since JR bought the team almost 40 years ago, he inherited LaRussa, the Fregosi who was managing in the minor leagues, then Torborg, who had managed but was a retread. Then Manuel, a bench coach. Then Ozzie a 3rd base coach. Then Robin a College Baseball Analyst and roving instructor in the Sox minors. Then Renteria, one year experience then canned. This is what they hire. This is what your budget for a manager will be. Don't blow your interview on this.

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The Sox made the playoffs. I thought they would be right around .500 if not slightly below. So overall, you can't blame Ricky so much. The question you have to have though, if you have a team you think can and should win for years, can you deal with how he uses his bullpen? It has been a question since he was managing the Cubs, and I would bet you anything, if the Cubs liked how he ran a bullpen, they would have stuck with him. They decided they needed something different. That is the question RH, KW and JR have to discuss. Ruiz and Gio Gonzalez on the mound in the 9th and 10th innings in games vs Cleveland. The Sox win one of them , the would have won the division. I could understand using either in a blow out situation or if the game goes 12 or 13 innings and you are down to the end of the bullpen. But in the 9th or 10th in games that huge?  Especially with a 28 man roster. It's mind blowing to me.  Everything else, he seems to be fine. The players love him.  He used to bunt a ton, but seemingly that has stopped with an improved line up. But bad bullpen management is one area where a manager will cost you wins eventually. 

Maybe they can make it improve. Or maybe they need someone else to run it. 

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people keep acting like the bullpen was the only thing...

 

There are lots of other things that Ricky does that are amazingly stupid... what about not pinch hitting  mcCann yesterday... or pitching to Ramirez every time and getting destroyed

 

Edited by harkness99
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5 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

people keep acting like the bullpen was the only thing...

 

There are lots of other things that Ricky does that are amazingly stupid... what about not pinch hitting  mcCann yesterday... or pitching to Ramirez every time and getting destroyed

 

We don't know what would have happened if he put in McCann which seemed like an obvious move, but if the strike zone was just as large for him as it was for Mazara the result would have probably been the same. Plus, it was so obvious, there had to be some sort of reason he didn't do it, like maybe McCann wasn't 100%.  The reason I focus on bullpen is it's an issue he has always had, and probably always will.

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19 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

The last week was terrible and Ricky made some bad decisions but you are fooling yourself if you think he will get fired.

The sox team overall did outperform their talent despite the last 6 or 7 games. Not saying the sox don't have talent but they were projected for about mid 80s wins and they won 35 games which is the equivalent of 94 games.

That means the team did perform at least 8 or 9 games better over a full season or about 4 games better over the shortened season (zips had them win 31 games).

 

If they would have played 162 games this year they would have probably wound up with 79 wins as Ricky's terrible managing cost games and lost the clubhouse.

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I think this lost the clubhouse thing is bullshit. They had a bad two weeks but that happens to every team over 162 games, momentum is a myth

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fg-on-fox-the-myth-of-second-half-momentum/

The cubs had a 5 win 15 loss stretch in 2016, nobody would care about a 3 win 9 loss stretch over a 162 season.

Edited by Dominikk85
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4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

This is why you will never be the GM. First, the Angels owe Maddon too much money. They aren't going to fire him. And if they did, to sign him would cost too much money. The Sox don't like high profiled managers. When is the last time they ever brought one in? Since JR bought the team almost 40 years ago, he inherited LaRussa, the Fregosi who was managing in the minor leagues, then Torborg, who had managed but was a retread. Then Manuel, a bench coach. Then Ozzie a 3rd base coach. Then Robin a College Baseball Analyst and roving instructor in the Sox minors. Then Renteria, one year experience then canned. This is what they hire. This is what your budget for a manager will be. Don't blow your interview on this.

1) I was kidding about the 3 things I listed. I'm very aware that Maddon wouldn't be signed by the White Sox. 2) You're right I could never be hired as the GM as long as JR owns the team. I would simply want to win, something that is not  very important to JR.

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6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

We don't know what would have happened if he put in McCann which seemed like an obvious move, but if the strike zone was just as large for him as it was for Mazara the result would have probably been the same. Plus, it was so obvious, there had to be some sort of reason he didn't do it, like maybe McCann wasn't 100%.  The reason I focus on bullpen is it's an issue he has always had, and probably always will.

Sox could always trade Grandal and keep McCann. Sox have a very good third catcher so Grandal is expendable if the Sox are in love with McCann. I must confess I like the chap.

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4 hours ago, WBWSF said:

1) I was kidding about the 3 things I listed. I'm very aware that Maddon wouldn't be signed by the White Sox. 2) You're right I could never be hired as the GM as long as JR owns the team. I would simply want to win, something that is not  very important to JR.

3) The suggestions you make on this board are often asinine when given the benefit of hindsight.

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On 9/28/2020 at 10:56 AM, WBWSF said:

1) The Angels just fired there GM Billy Eppler who hired Joe Maddon this year. 2) The new Angels GM  fires Maddon and brings in his own manager. 3} The White Sox fire RR and bring in Maddon to manage the White Sox.

I don't see Angels eating $10 Mil+ contract. Maddon will at least get another year. 

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On 9/28/2020 at 3:19 AM, Dominikk85 said:

Had Ricky run the pen like the forum wanted him to do which is basically treat every game like game 7 and never put in a bad reliever in a tough spot the pen would have already been worn out after 30 games.

Ricky made some bad moves but I also felt he protected colome, foster and heuer which were the only reliable relievers over the season after the bummer injury reasonably well by not using them all the time.

This is a very good post and frankly why managers would be dumb to care about opinions of fans ever. One common complaint during the course of any season is the use of relievers in individual games. And like you said managers and pitching coaches have all sorts of reasons for not using their best on given nights. Every game is indeed game seven to many fans and a manager just manages for the long haul. ... Another fan thing is blaming a guy like RR for playing Grandal too much or EE too much when they are being outplayed by McCann and/or struggling. A manager has to play the big-time acquisitions no matter what. If you embarrass the GM, that is not good.

Edited by greg775
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7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is a very good post and frankly why managers would be dumb to care about opinions of fans ever. One common complaint during the course of any season is the use of relievers in individual games. And like you said managers and pitching coaches have all sorts of reasons for not using their best on given nights. Every game is indeed game seven to many fans and a manager just manages for the long haul. ... Another fan thing is blaming a guy like RR for playing Grandal too much or EE too much when they are being outplayed by McCann and/or struggling. A manager has to play the big-time acquisitions no matter what. If you embarrass the GM, that is not good.

only thing is.. no one was asking him to treat ever game like game 7.   That's not what was happening at all.

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56 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is a very good post and frankly why managers would be dumb to care about opinions of fans ever. One common complaint during the course of any season is the use of relievers in individual games. And like you said managers and pitching coaches have all sorts of reasons for not using their best on given nights. Every game is indeed game seven to many fans and a manager just manages for the long haul. ... Another fan thing is blaming a guy like RR for playing Grandal too much or EE too much when they are being outplayed by McCann and/or struggling. A manager has to play the big-time acquisitions no matter what. If you embarrass the GM, that is not good.

Not to mention the alternate reality many here live in, where there are not ongoing discussions between Hahn and Rick about the lineup, bullpen, rotation and roster during the regular season, and daily conversations during the postseason. As if Rick Hahn is sitting and fretting, oh, I don't like what's going on, I wish I could say or do something about it.

With an open dialogue, they can discuss the pros and cons of the current roster, and Rick's boss can agree to some tough decisions regarding key free agent and draft pick acquisitions. The same boss who hired Rick Renteria after a thorough job search of 24 hours, and who signed him again in 2019. Not sure why there is a lack of understanding of how a team, even an "old school" team like the White Sox, operates in the 21st century, but here we are after a successful season even the most optimistic among fans or the team could have expected.

Edited by South Side Hit Men

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I thought Ricky has managed the pitching staff well so far.  I'm not upset with his management except for putting EE in today.

BTW, in theory we could trade for Joe Maddon.

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Why would anyone want Maddon? The Cubs won the series in 2016 despite his bad managing, not because of it.

If the Sox win today, this discussion is moot. They won't can him if he wins a playoff series.

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6 hours ago, Rey21 said:

If the Indians/Francona were to part ways the Sox better kick Renteria to the curb 

He’s signed through 2022, when Lindor and/or Ramirez will both likely be gone, certainly Francisco.

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11 hours ago, Rey21 said:

If the Indians/Francona were to part ways the Sox better kick Renteria to the curb 

Hasn't been healthy all season it seams.  Wonder if he'd take some time off if they part ways.

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Doesn't it seem like Hahn is just biding his time until he feels Jirschele can come up?  That's certainly how it feels to me.

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