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harkness99

Umpires embarassing themselves all year.

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Umps are dogshit this year, worse than normal.  RoboUmps cannot come soon enough.  Get these clowns out of there.  I'm sick of watching them ruin the game and then make scenes on the field like their authority is somehow deserved.  Technologically we as a human race have evolved to the point where we no longer need to rely on quacks like Joe West and Angel Hernandez for anything.

Re: the strikezone, that is very easy.  Put sensors in the exact middle of the 3-dimensional plate.  Any pitch that knicks any part of the exact middle of the 3D plate is a strike.  Keep in mind, as Hawk says, the batters box belongs to the hitter and he can still move around all he wants in it.

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4 minutes ago, asindc said:

It is only unfair if the pitch is actually out of the strike zone.  If it is in the strike zone, call it a strike or change the zone.

When you have a 3D zone, you can't do that. because fastballs would have to be down the middle in order for sliders, cutters and changeups to not be ridiculous. 

The only way you could change the zone is if you had a zone for 4 seamers and a zone for everything else. 

For example, the pitch that Mazara struck out on could have actually been a strike, where it nicked the black on the inside corner toward the front of the plate before continuing to move inside. It doesn't look like it, but we don't see the 3D zone so we don't know. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

When you have a 3D zone, you can't do that. because fastballs would have to be down the middle in order for sliders, cutters and changeups to not be ridiculous. 

The only way you could change the zone is if you had a zone for 4 seamers and a zone for everything else. 

You don't need a full cube of a zone, just a 2D plane in the middle of the plate.  We still need a full plate for plays at home and as the first point of fairness like fouling balls off of the plate etc.  But the strikezone does not have to be a large cube. 

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1 minute ago, YourWhatHurts said:

You don't need a full cube of a zone, just a 2D plane in the middle of the plate.  We still need a full plate for plays at home and as the first point of fairness like fouling balls off of the plate etc.  But the strikezone does not have to be a large cube. 

If you actually look at k zone in ESPN broadcasts the zone as currently defined is a box rather than a plane. 

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Also re: this discussion there needs to be a system that automatically rules on check swings.  IMO there should be some sort of light behind the plate where the ump is, and it lights up green for ball and red for a strike.  If a play is dead there can be another signal, or maybe if the play is dead the light is solid, but if the play is live the light will blink.  It would be nice if all of the players on the field knew immediately whether the pitch or swing was a ball or strike, and whether the play was live or dead, all of the time.

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you actually look at k zone in ESPN broadcasts the zone as currently defined is a box rather than a plane. 

I don't care about ESPN's k-zone.  I am talking about robo umps.  You put sensors at the middle of the plate.  There is a 2D plane or "box" if you want to call it that is about 0.1mm thick at the center of the plate which is where the pitch is read.  Then I would imagine the players would have to have sensors placed on their uniforms or maybe taped to their body or something.  But then everyone has a strikezone as soon as they step into the box that registers in the middle of the plate.

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2 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

As fans we all see the pitch go against and get furious, but I agree with Jack "Now every game is a referendum on umpires. ".  Robot's are not the solution, give the ump a break. The game is moving fast and you can only make so many split second decisions with a ball bearing down on you.  Now are there bad umps, yes that is true, but we are all prone to make a mistake now and then.  Just don't do it to my SOX!

"Robots are not the solution" he said while perfectly encapsulating why robots are, in fact, the solution.

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1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

When you have a 3D zone, you can't do that. because fastballs would have to be down the middle in order for sliders, cutters and changeups to not be ridiculous. 

The only way you could change the zone is if you had a zone for 4 seamers and a zone for everything else. 

For example, the pitch that Mazara struck out on could have actually been a strike, where it nicked the black on the inside corner toward the front of the plate before continuing to move inside. It doesn't look like it, but we don't see the 3D zone so we don't know. 

the system they tested doesn't work like that -  yeah breaking balls might be a little tricky, but I really don't think so.

But its not just the tricky pitches they are missing.

They are missing calls on straight, not moving 4 seam fastballs by 3-5 inches or more regulary.

Edited by harkness99

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8 hours ago, gusguyman said:

"Robots are not the solution" he said while perfectly encapsulating why robots are, in fact, the solution.

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

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3 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

Not replacing, making them better.

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41 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

This is black and white thinking, as well as a false equivalence mindset. What goes into every job is completely different. 

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46 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

The umps don't lose their jobs.... you ever watched tennis?  They have used electronics for years and have a review system - and the umpire still has plenty to do.

 

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Also to be pointed out is that I would bet teams like the cubs yanks red sox and dodgers get more calls for them then everybody else. Just like how the nba gives calls to the stars. The game should be as fair as possible and not left to human guessing. 

And to having technology replace your job, do you use any technology in your job? That probably took somebody’s job... we should get rid of all computers... can’t have technology doing our jobs for us.

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1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

lol whattttt. 

You still using a horse to plow them fields there champ? Still handwriting everything instead of using a computer?

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11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

When you have a 3D zone, you can't do that. because fastballs would have to be down the middle in order for sliders, cutters and changeups to not be ridiculous. 

The only way you could change the zone is if you had a zone for 4 seamers and a zone for everything else. 

For example, the pitch that Mazara struck out on could have actually been a strike, where it nicked the black on the inside corner toward the front of the plate before continuing to move inside. It doesn't look like it, but we don't see the 3D zone so we don't know. 

Jack, you can easily assign front or back of plate zones. You are acting like this is rocket science. It was already implemented before. They weren't calling bouncers strikes.

Hahahaha that pitch was never a strike to mazara. Guy, you smoking the good stuff? Ball was 3+ inches off.

3d zone.... jaysus jack

Plate is 17 inches deep, how much break do you think a baseball can achieve in 17 inches? You seem to think balls are moving 3-4 inches once they reach the front of the plate and defying physics. The zone will likely mean where the ball cross as the front or middle of the plate. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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13 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

This is from fangraphs: 

rplot01.png?w=588

 

That list is a list of top 15 and bottom 15 from a fangraphs community piece by the umpire guys posted on page 1 of this thread. I have heard of every single umpire in the bottom 15, but I can honestly say besides Fairchild, Little and Barret - all who I know as good umpires - I've never heard of the rest of the top 15.

I could have sworn CB would have been the worst, but it's close haha

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12 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I don't care about ESPN's k-zone.  I am talking about robo umps.  You put sensors at the middle of the plate.  There is a 2D plane or "box" if you want to call it that is about 0.1mm thick at the center of the plate which is where the pitch is read.  Then I would imagine the players would have to have sensors placed on their uniforms or maybe taped to their body or something.  But then everyone has a strikezone as soon as they step into the box that registers in the middle of the plate.

Stepping into the box for creating a strike zone doesn't work if sensors are doing that. There's a difference between when you walk into the box and your batting stance. Ricky Henderson hit from a crouch and got a lot of walks because of it. His strike zone would have been much larger if it was based on the actual height of his knees and upper body . It's also difficult to gauge if lets say the hitter stays at the back of the batters box a pitch with sink might be at the knees as it hits the front of the plate but below the knees by the time it reaches the batter. Many times those types of pitches are strikes but catchers end up catching them really low and they look like easy Ball calls to us at home. Every player may have to be brought in and told to take his normal batting stance and make sure its not much different than it is on film and then measure the height of his lowest and highest points on his body that are considered strikes. Players will definitely try to cheat an auto ump by trying to make their strike zone smaller that's why players need to be measured ahead of time and double checked against how they normally bat.

That box on the TV during games we see now isn't all that accurate. I've seen plenty of batters where the top of that box is below the waist of the hitter especially on Madrigal. I doubt that the lowest and highest point are adjusted much during the game but it should be just for a more accurate assessment of balls and strikes for the announcers and fans who rely way too heavily on it. I think the width is ok since that cannot change since its based on the width of the plate but the height of the lowest and highest strikes should change from batter to batter.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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3 hours ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Humans are not perfect....And anyone who wants robots should have their job replaced by one.  Good luck!!

I for one love when the umpire gets tricked by the catcher moving his glove on every single pitch so he can get that call where he drags the ball 6 inches back for that backdoor fastball.  Either they need to get better at their job or technology will.  

 

The irony here is that I am currently sitting at my desk writing code to automate job tasks that I have done manually for years.  Bring on the robots.  

Edited by southsideirish71

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12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Stepping into the box for creating a strike zone doesn't work if sensors are doing that. There's a difference between when you walk into the box and your batting stance. Ricky Henderson hit from a crouch and got a lot of walks because of it. His strike zone would have been much larger if it was based on the actual height of his knees and upper body . It's also difficult to gauge if lets say the hitter stays at the back of the batters box a pitch with sink might be at the knees as it hits the front of the plate but below the knees by the time it reaches the batter. Many times those types of pitches are strikes but catchers end up catching them really low and they look like easy Ball calls to us at home. Every player may have to be brought in and told to take his normal batting stance and make sure its not much different than it is on film and then measure the height of his lowest and highest points on his body that are considered strikes. Players will definitely try to cheat an auto ump by trying to make their strike zone smaller that's why players need to be measured ahead of time and double checked against how they normally bat.

That box on the TV during games we see now isn't all that accurate. I've seen plenty of batters where the top of that box is below the waist of the hitter especially on Madrigal. I doubt that the lowest and highest point are adjusted much during the game but it should be just for a more accurate assessment of balls and strikes for the announcers and fans who rely way too heavily on it. I think the width is ok since that cannot change since its based on the width of the plate but the height of the lowest and highest strikes should change from batter to batter.

Also when does the strike zone finalize? When the pitcher starts his motion? When the ball is released or crosses? When the batter gets in his stance?

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2 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

Also when does the strike zone finalize? When the pitcher starts his motion? When the ball is released or crosses? When the batter gets in his stance?

That's especially tricky when you have a guy like Tim moving up in the box to try to catch pitches before they break or sink too much or get them while they are still higher since curves sliders and sinkers from a good pitcher all have late break downward.

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18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That's especially tricky when you have a guy like Tim moving up in the box to try to catch pitches before they break or sink too much or get them while they are still higher since curves sliders and sinkers from a good pitcher all have late break downward.

Well where the player is standing shouldn’t effect the strike zone... it’s over the plate no matter where you stand. But standing up and crouching down can make it taller and shorter depending...

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Stepping into the box for creating a strike zone doesn't work if sensors are doing that. There's a difference between when you walk into the box and your batting stance. Ricky Henderson hit from a crouch and got a lot of walks because of it. His strike zone would have been much larger if it was based on the actual height of his knees and upper body . It's also difficult to gauge if lets say the hitter stays at the back of the batters box a pitch with sink might be at the knees as it hits the front of the plate but below the knees by the time it reaches the batter. Many times those types of pitches are strikes but catchers end up catching them really low and they look like easy Ball calls to us at home. Every player may have to be brought in and told to take his normal batting stance and make sure its not much different than it is on film and then measure the height of his lowest and highest points on his body that are considered strikes. Players will definitely try to cheat an auto ump by trying to make their strike zone smaller that's why players need to be measured ahead of time and double checked against how they normally bat.

That box on the TV during games we see now isn't all that accurate. I've seen plenty of batters where the top of that box is below the waist of the hitter especially on Madrigal. I doubt that the lowest and highest point are adjusted much during the game but it should be just for a more accurate assessment of balls and strikes for the announcers and fans who rely way too heavily on it. I think the width is ok since that cannot change since its based on the width of the plate but the height of the lowest and highest strikes should change from batter to batter.

There's no difference; crouching is not supposed to change your strike zone. 

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3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

There's no difference; crouching is not supposed to change your strike zone. 

I honestly don’t know this... what is the definition of the strike zone?

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1 hour ago, yesterday333 said:

Also when does the strike zone finalize? When the pitcher starts his motion? When the ball is released or crosses? When the batter gets in his stance?

This is already in the rules. Per the definitions section of the MLB rulebook:

"The STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter’s stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

So if you can swing in an exaggerated crouch, that is your strike zone. But if you crouch and then pop out of it to swing, the strike zone would not be affected by the crouch.

Edited by gusguyman

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