Offseason Targets

[beautox]

Thats 115M guaranteed not taking into account his vesting option, 65M now since 50M is deferred, not even taking into account his full NTC. I'd welcome the purposed deal but I'm skeptical it happens.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, striker said:

You try filling out the roster first via free agency, then you fall back on trades. The only way you do trades first is if you get a can't miss long term piece. Why trade all those pieces to Boston when you can just sign JBJ and Q for the same net WAR but you keep your prospects.

because JBJ sucks

[Eminor3rd]

On 10/6/2020 at 3:35 PM, ChiSox59 said:

Cease for Benintendi would be terrible.

I am rooting for Cease+++ for Nimmo and Diaz.  

My +++ would be Collins, Flores and L. Gonzalez.  But you can insert whatever backend 40 man guys you want.  But I think that's a pretty fair trade.  

My criticism applies equally to your proposal.

[YourWhatHurts]

Something that really cannot be argued is that the Sox, currently, are almost certainly either at the peak of their prospect depth / farm system quality right now, or will be between now and next year's offseason, likely depending on what we do in terms of trading between now and then. 

We will be:

1) picking lower, in the draft;

2) have less draft pool money;

3) have less INTL money;

4) will pick lower on the waiver wire;

5) pick lower in the Rule-5 order;

6) will be keeping 40-man roster spots open for AAAA/fringe MLBers and "win-now" veterans / bench and pen pieces instead of using them for prospects, so there is less room on the 40-man;

7) we will generally be attempting to trade prospects for vets instead of trading vets for prospects ...

...for probably the next 5+ seasons consecutively.

We ***really*** need to manage our assets best, right now.  If we don't, we will probably fuck up both our win-now window and fuck up our ability to transition from the coming win-now period to a Cardinals-like spot-patch contention period after (where we can make adjustments year to year but still play competitive baseball for several years after our extended young guys' contracts end).  That transition is important because if we don't manage our assets well now then we will probably be looking at a need to fully rebuild when our Moncada/Robert/Eloy/etc. group gets to the end of their deals, ala the Cubs current situation. 

Right now, as I count it, we have Kopech, Crochet, Kelly, and Stiever all IMO as blue chipper SP prospects, regardless of where they are nationally ranked, and Dunning, Thompson, Dalquist, Lambert, and Vera as as very good SP prospects also who very likely have an MLB future and aren't just the kind of fringe guys that we're used to.  Vaughn is an elite hitting prospect and the best 1B prospect in baseball, and one of if not the best pure hitting prospect in baseball.  Then there is still maybe some life in other areas, like perhaps Collins, Rutherford, Burger, etc.  We still have a good system that may actually be a bit underrated ATM.  Let's not just piss it away.  In all likelihood if we manage it very well it will gradually diminish to a bottom third system over the next 2 or 3 years, and after that, it will really be a struggle to keep it on the high side of the bottom third instead of the middle or lower portion of the bottom third.

[YourWhatHurts]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

because JBJ sucks

Check out his numbers this year though.  I'm not saying he'll continue to be that guy but he definitely didn't suck this year.

[Flash]

Trade proposal...who says no?

Cease, Stiever and Fry for Darvish and Ed Howard

[YourWhatHurts]

I'd just be interested in knowing 1) whether the Sox ownership would be willing to add a contract like Sale's regardless of the cost, and 2) if so, what would it cost us just to take it on and nothing else?  They can have Reynaldo and Collins for that, and some filler.  If Sale returns to form that deal is legal armed robbery with a pistol whipping that the judge sees and just winks and smiles at.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Something that really cannot be argued is that the Sox, currently, are almost certainly either at the peak of their prospect depth / farm system quality right now, or will be between now and next year's offseason, likely depending on what we do in terms of trading between now and then. 

We will be:

1) picking lower, in the draft;

2) have less draft pool money;

3) have less INTL money;

4) will pick lower on the waiver wire;

5) pick lower in the Rule-5 order;

6) will be keeping 40-man roster spots open for AAAA/fringe MLBers and "win-now" veterans / bench and pen pieces instead of using them for prospects, so there is less room on the 40-man;

7) we will generally be attempting to trade prospects for vets instead of trading vets for prospects ...

...for probably the next 5+ seasons consecutively.

We ***really*** need to manage our assets best, right now.  If we don't, we will probably fuck up both our win-now window and fuck up our ability to transition from the coming win-now period to a Cardinals-like spot-patch contention period after (where we can make adjustments year to year but still play competitive baseball for several years after our extended young guys' contracts end).  That transition is important because if we don't manage our assets well now then we will probably be looking at a need to fully rebuild when our Moncada/Robert/Eloy/etc. group gets to the end of their deals, ala the Cubs current situation. 

Right now, as I count it, we have Kopech, Crochet, Kelly, and Stiever all IMO as blue chipper SP prospects, regardless of where they are nationally ranked, and Dunning, Thompson, Dalquist, Lambert, and Vera as as very good SP prospects also who very likely have an MLB future and aren't just the kind of fringe guys that we're used to.  Vaughn is an elite hitting prospect and the best 1B prospect in baseball, and one of if not the best pure hitting prospect in baseball.  Then there is still maybe some life in other areas, like perhaps Collins, Rutherford, Burger, etc.  We still have a good system that may actually be a bit underrated ATM.  Let's not just piss it away.  In all likelihood if we manage it very well it will gradually diminish to a bottom third system over the next 2 or 3 years, and after that, it will really be a struggle to keep it on the high side of the bottom third instead of the middle or lower portion of the bottom third.

Isn't international money a measure of what size market team you are?

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

Trade proposal...who says no?

Cease, Stiever and Fry for Darvish and Ed Howard

The Cubs laugh us out of the building.  That deal is light without Howard in it.

[YourWhatHurts]

Just now, Flash said:

Trade proposal...who says no?

Cease, Stiever and Fry for Darvish and Ed Howard

Not sure but it would be an emotional conversation for all involved IMO.  Everyone in it besides Fry I can see multiple execs on both sides loving and pushing for.  Ballsy and dangerous.

[YourWhatHurts]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Isn't international money a measure of what size market team you are?

I don't think so.  The Sox have had high pools and I believe it is because they have sucked in the standings.

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

Trade proposal...who says no?

Cease, Stiever and Fry for Darvish and Ed Howard

Probably the Cubs, but why would we trade major league assets for a HS shortstop?

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I don't think so.  The Sox have had high pools and I believe it is because they have sucked in the standings.

It used to be determined based on standings, whereas it now seems it's determined by market size, at least that's what I gathered from this. 

[bmags]

54 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

It used to be determined based on standings, whereas it now seems it's determined by market size, at least that's what I gathered from this. 

Yea it is this. If only jerry threw his weight around on this stuff. So infuriating the leg up the cardinals, for example, get in the CBA.

[A-Train to 35th]

On 10/1/2020 at 8:47 PM, HahnsKiddieTable said:

Yep. This team needs to land it’s big fish one way or another this offseason. Enough of 2nd place bids, whether that’s via trade or free agency. Now is the time to strike. 

Not a fan of management but they did put in a bigger bid for Zach Wheeler this year and a competitive bid overall for the Machado fiasco last year.

[BamaDoc]

On 10/6/2020 at 6:57 PM, soxfan49 said:

Dunning for Blackmon? The Sox shouldn't think twice about that, imo.

Are you saying you would want Blackmon for Dunning?  Blackmon 34 years old and owed over fifty million over next three?  Coors field/ bad away splits Blackmon?  Couple years ago, I could see. 
 

Edited October 8, 2020 by BamaDoc
Misspelled/autocorrect Coors

[ChiSox1917]

3 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Are you saying you would want Blackmon for Dunning?  Blackmon 34 years old and owed over fifty million over next three?  Coors field/ bad away splits Blackmon?  Couple years ago, I could see. 
 

The only rockies players we should be inquiring about are marquez and freeland

Edited October 8, 2020 by ChiSox1917

[Dominikk85]

13 hours ago, striker said:

You try filling out the roster first via free agency, then you fall back on trades. The only way you do trades first is if you get a can't miss long term piece. Why trade all those pieces to Boston when you can just sign JBJ and Q for the same net WAR but you keep your prospects.

I don't know, many of the successful rebuilding teams of the last few years did trade a ton. 

The rays and As do tons of trades. The cubs, red Sox and Yankees too. 

You just need to trade the right guys. 

[striker]

Give me JBJ ($8m), LeMahieu ($18m/3) and Gausman ($16m/3) and call it day. That gives us a great bat, a good LH bat, 180 innings and outfield/infield depth. This gets us to the trade deadline where we can plug any additional holes.

 

SS Anderson
3B/DH/2B LeMahieu
CA/1B/DH Grandal
1B/DH Abreu
LF/DH Jimenez
3B/DH Moncada
CF Robert
RF/LF/CF JBJ
2B Madrigal

SP Giolito
SP Keuchel
SP Gausman
SP Dunning
SP Cease/Kopech

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

14 hours ago, Flash said:

Trade proposal...who says no?

Cease, Stiever and Fry for Darvish and Ed Howard

The best two players in that deal are Cubs players....

[bmags]

So definitely seems like Bauer is angling to get PAID, I doubt his 1-year schtick survives guaranteed bucks.

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

So definitely seems like Bauer is angling to get PAID, I doubt his 1-year schtick survives guaranteed bucks.

Exactly. Never bought into it really. There was some article I read somewhere yesterday about how the Sox and Trevor Bauer make sense for each other on a one year deal. I was like no...it really doesn't make sense from his standpoint at all.

Edited October 8, 2020 by soxfan2014

[southsider2k5]

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

So definitely seems like Bauer is angling to get PAID, I doubt his 1-year schtick survives guaranteed bucks.

If ever there was a year to sign a one year deal, this is it.

[Rey21]

Cease+Adolfo+Stiever for Michael Conforto

OR

Cease+James Beard for Brandon Nimmo 

Sign Stroman + Keone Kela

Sign Tommy La Stella

Re-Sign Colome

If Jerry is all in and open then go sign Michael Brantley too 

Decline Mazara’s option 

C - Grandal/Collins/Mercedes

1B - Abreu/Vaughn

2B - Madrigal/La Stella

SS - TA/Mendick

3B - Moncada

LF - Eloy/Brantley

CF - Robert/Engel

RF - Conforto/Nimmo

DH - Brantley/Vaughn

SP Giolito/Stroman/Kuechel/Dunning/Kopech

[ChiSox59]

18 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

My criticism applies equally to your proposal.

Short of acquiring two leigitmate SP this offseason, I agree, the sox can't afford to trade from their SP depth.

But if they can go a sign a mid to TOR starter (Stroman more likely than Bauer) and another solid backend piece like Quintana, trading Cease for a legit RF that solves a lot of problems and a closer makes plenty of sense IMO (per my proposal). 

Big ifs, though.