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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Well there is reason to believe Portillo’s may have information given their past Tweets on the Bummer extension and Jared Kelley’s bonus.

And there is reason to believe the Sox would consider trading Madrigal as they offered him up in a deadline trade this year.

I must have missed the part about offering him up in trade at the deadline. Who did they offer him to and for whom?

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I hate the idea of trading Madrigal, a likely 2021 all star for Yu Darvish with the injury history he has had. No thank you. There are pitchers on the market that all you need to do is give up cash for. Unless the plan os to resign Semien, I don't want to see Madrigal go.

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2 minutes ago, Flash said:

I must have missed the part about offering him up in trade at the deadline. Who did they offer him to and for whom?

You’d have to ask Harold, but I’m guessing Clevinger based on some of his past posts.

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3 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I hate the idea of trading Madrigal, a likely 2021 all star for Yu Darvish with the injury history he has had. No thank you. There are pitchers on the market that all you need to do is give up cash for. Unless the plan os to resign Semien, I don't want to see Madrigal go.

You think Madrigal is a “likely 2021 all star”?  I like the kid, but those are lofty expectations.

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Portillos has mentioned 15 players in tweets since yesterday...not counting Springer and Marquez.   

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The greatest trick the scouts ever pulled was convincing us that Madrigal's high level baseball IQ and speed ever existed. And just like that, they were gone. 

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1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

No way do you trade Madrigal.

My dream scenario is what @YourWhatHurts posted.

Taking Darvish by also taking Heywards contract.

Heyward is actually PERFECT for our team. Amazing defense, left handed, and a decent enough bat. His contract is awful, which would allow us to get Darvish for little IMO.

I don't know just *how* realistic that is, but that is the type of trade a winning franchise looks to make. 

 

P.S. the part where YourWhatHurts losses us is when the Cubs have to add their #1 prospect to the deal, lol

I am willing to bet that Brailyn Marquez is quite a bit down the list of the Cubs favorite young players, e.g. he's below Davis, below Hoerner, maybe below Happ, etc.  Marquez is still a likely back end RP.  

Yes he is rated as their best P prospect but we've been down this road before.  We've had a lot of not-so-great P prospects who were called SPs but were really more like RP prospects, e.g. Poreda and Fulmer.

Taking on all that money is a huge favor to the Cubs.  Heyward - what's he get on this market as a FA?  $7-8M or so?  Seriously, maybe $10M tops?  He's owed $20+ for the next 3 seasons and he's already very close to being a 4th OF.  If he loses a step at all in that time he's a 4th OF, meaning he's like a $1-2M player on a $20M+ contract.  That deal is baaaaad.  

Darvish pitched a good second half of 2019 and he was excellent in this pandemic shortened season.  Other than that, he has been a massive disappointment to the Cubs.  Surely they figured they might get some really bad on the back end of that deal when they signed him, but figured they'd get some really good performances out of him on the front end first when they were in position to win another title.  So far it has been exactly the opposite.  If Darvish did all of this in a Sox uniform, fans here would be pretty excited to see him up his value just so they could watch him walk out the door.  That deal looked totally immovable pretty recently.

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7 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I hate the idea of trading Madrigal, a likely 2021 all star for Yu Darvish with the injury history he has had. No thank you. There are pitchers on the market that all you need to do is give up cash for. Unless the plan os to resign Semien, I don't want to see Madrigal go.

  Madrigal will not be a 2021 all star. He won't be ready to play at Opening Day for starters. Also, the kid is limited to being a singles hitter. He reminds me of another little guy who played 2nd base for the Sox, Nellie Fox. His game fit much better in the 50's and 60's than Madrigal's fits today's game. If Darvish passes a strong  physical, I'd do that trade. They can back-fill second base very easily. Darvish is a stud when healthy. I'd take my chances with him and someone like Quintana on my pitching staff. 

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14 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I hate the idea of trading Madrigal, a likely 2021 all star for Yu Darvish with the injury history he has had. No thank you. There are pitchers on the market that all you need to do is give up cash for. Unless the plan os to resign Semien, I don't want to see Madrigal go.

Even if you're a Madrigal fan it's going to be an uphill battle for a guy like him to make an All-Star team.  Lots of 2B have pop and he plays on a team where there are likely to be several All-Star candidates who will overshadow him, like Robert, Eloy, Moncada, Giolito, etc.  

Overall even in his better offensive years there will be people who argue that his numbers still aren't good enough overall.  And I think most Sox fans have been disappointed in his baserunning, raw defensive skills, baseball aptitude, and especially his speed.

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18 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’d have to ask Harold, but I’m guessing Clevinger based on some of his past posts.

So Portillos reported that he heard Harold had info on Madrigal being offered at the deadline?  

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1 minute ago, Flash said:

So Portillos reported that he heard Harold had info on Madrigal being offered at the deadline?  

No, the Madrigal stuff isn’t coming from Portillo’s, it’s coming straight from Harold in this thread.

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Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

No, the Madrigal stuff isn’t coming from Portillo’s, it’s coming straight from Harold in this thread.

Sorry...misread your post.

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I want Les Grossman on a huge screen in the dugout if Madrigal ever hits a flyball.   “Punch that second baseman in the face”

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

That's not even what I meant.  I mean he has an obvious place within the construction of the roster.  Which he does.

So let me ask you this, since I am sure you'd be tickled to see the Sox trade him.  Who do they sign to play 2B?

How about la Stella, who struck out at a lower percentage, walked more and can hit it out of the outfield. 

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

How about la Stella, who struck out at a lower percentage, walked more and can hit it out of the outfield. 

La Stella, Wong, C. Hernandez or Schoop....boom, see ya Madrigal

Edited by fathom
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31 minutes ago, bmags said:

How about la Stella, who struck out at a lower percentage, walked more and can hit it out of the outfield. 

There should be some at least yellow flags with La Stella, first of all, former cub, so there's that, but even besides that, I have some concerns.  He has career .754 OPS.  But Turnin, you say, he has been better lately.  Ok that's fair.  But even over the last 3 seasons, an OPS of .787.  That's my first concern.  Secondly, he has never gotten more than 360 PAs in a season, and that was in his rookie season.  Now, this season he played in 55 games and had 228 PA, so maybe that shows he can be an everyday player.  My third concern is that next season will be his age 32 season, is this the time where we expect the best out of a player that has been mostly marginal in his career?  Is he a guy that just figured it out at 30, and will be better?  Or was 2019 some sort of fluke?  He has put up a career bWAR of 4.2 and 5.2 fWAR .

He has hit 21 HRs and 22 doubles over the last 2 seasons, (549 PA).  Is that what you expect from him in a full season?  That is very useful.  He has an .827 OPS over that time.  Pretty darn good.  Though, all of the other seasons in his career, he has hit 50 doubles and 10 homers with a .711 OPS (947 PA).  That, well, isn't a guy you go out and sign expecting much.  Honestly haven't seen him play much, or haven't noticed him at least, but he seems like an average to slightly below average defensive player, though those metrics aren't the best.  

Why should I be interested in him, and especially as a replacement for a guy that is 7 years younger?  Also Madrigal's OBP last year, would have been the 2nd best in La Stella's career (.389 151 PA).  Also what would you have to pay him to sign him?  Madrigal is obviously very cheap.  Now, I'm not completely against trading Madrigal, especially for an TOR starter.  But I'm not getting rid of him for the heck of it.  

So, I guess, I don't really see it on La Stella, what am I missing?  Can you sell me on him?

Edited by turnin' two

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1 hour ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I hate the idea of trading Madrigal, a likely 2021 all star for Yu Darvish with the injury history he has had. No thank you. There are pitchers on the market that all you need to do is give up cash for. Unless the plan os to resign Semien, I don't want to see Madrigal go.

The obsession with trading Madrigal (usually for players with question marks) on this board is so irritating.

No one apparently wants Brantley or various other players due to "injury concerns" yet we cant wait to offer up a young, cheap, controlled potential all star who just hit .340 in his rookie season AND MORE for a definitely injury prone pitcher. 

I want a star SP too, guys. But trading Nick is not the answer.

Edited by RagahRagah
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17 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

The obsession with trading Madrigal (usually for players with question marks) on this board is so irritating.

No one apparently wants Brantley or various other players due to "injury concerns" yet we cant wait to offer up a young, cheap, controlled potential all star who just hit .340 in his rookie season AND MORE for a definitely injury prone pitcher. 

I want a star SP too, guys. But trading Nick is not the answer.

Madrigal is injury prone as well 

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6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Madrigal is injury prone as well 

I'm not really worried about that, but doesn't that also enforce the possibility that we get less value for him anyway?

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’d have to ask Harold, but I’m guessing Clevinger based on some of his past posts.

There you have it . Trading Madrigal is bad luck waiting to happen. If Madrigal is somehow traded for Darvish then Darvish is injured and ineffective for 2 of his remaining 3 years.

I understand the reason for wanting to trade him. He's not an impact player like Tatis, jr. ,but if his rookie year is any indication the kid can hit for average if not power. His fielding and base running should improve as he adjusts to the speed of the game and his own limitations. Hitting for average is a good thing around a bunch of guys  getting extra base hits. He will score a lot of runs and sustain rallies, knock in a few runs.

Look how long the Sox stuck with EE . Nicky brought way more to the table than EE without a single HR while EE hit 10. Nick had a .745 OPS with 3 lousy doubles among his 35 hits and a 108 OPS+. EE had a .627 OPS and 70 OPS+. Nick hit better than our DH for most the the year who cost the Sox $10M.

It's hard to take a stance for acquiring guys when we start thinking old often injured guys contracts are worth it coming off a top year. No one liked Abreu's new contract and he was younger than Darvish without injury history. Do not overpay for Darvish . 3 years is too many for a 34 year old with too many injuries and too many incomplete seasons and with his best season in recent memory  being one where he pitched 76 innings.

I was against EE last year. I was against Shields and LaRoche. I thought the trade for Samardzija was idiotic. It's all in black in white somewhere in the archives.

No more costly aging injury prone players.I'd rather trade a Steele Walker 100 times for a Nomar Mazara. 1 minor leaguer for a MLB young player with upside. It's really too bad he flopped because even with his normal production from his 4 previous years we win the division easy and if he had broken out imagine the trade chip he would've been. I want upside, not guys coming off their best year with the likelihood of age and injuries taking the toll they always take.

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2 hours ago, The Hawk said:

  Madrigal will not be a 2021 all star. He won't be ready to play at Opening Day for starters. Also, the kid is limited to being a singles hitter. He reminds me of another little guy who played 2nd base for the Sox, Nellie Fox. His game fit much better in the 50's and 60's than Madrigal's fits today's game. If Darvish passes a strong  physical, I'd do that trade. They can back-fill second base very easily. Darvish is a stud when healthy. I'd take my chances with him and someone like Quintana on my pitching staff. 

No one has said Madrigal wont be ready for OD. Just that he may miss a couple weeks of ST. 

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39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

No one has said Madrigal wont be ready for OD. Just that he may miss a couple weeks of ST. 

A whole lot of things have to go right for Madrigal to be ready for opening day.  But beyond that, it is way optimistic to think that a singles hitter is going to be an all-star in today's game. He doesn't walk much either so his OBP will be kind of like Anderson's in terms of that. Whatever they hit is the lion's share of their OBP. But Anderson is a legit power guy. I think that Madrigal will eventually grow a bit and develop some gap power but his road to being an all-star is pretty iffy in my estimation. We still haven't seen a great defensive second baseman as yet in him and his throwing arm seems a bit weak. I'm just being realistic about him.

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11 minutes ago, Leonard Zelig said:

What injuries other than that slide?

Broken wrist his last year in college 

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