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Offseason Targets

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4 minutes ago, Flash said:

3 offseason moves for a ring...

1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of)

2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to

3) sign Colome and/or Hand

These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech

The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond.  

Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign.  I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity.

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8 minutes ago, Flash said:

3 offseason moves for a ring...

1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of)

2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to

3) sign Colome and/or Hand

These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech

The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond.  

I'd be OK giving up one of our main prospects if we ended up with Burnes and that rotation ... jeez, that's insane.

Don't know why the brewers would move Burnes tho

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11 minutes ago, Flash said:

3 offseason moves for a ring...

1) trade for Darvish...guessing Cease and sweetener gets it done (Rodon seems like a guy Cubs might feel they can wring some mileage out of)

2) blockbuster trade with Milwaukee for Burnes...yes, this will likely require sending Brewers one of our key pieces we are all so emotionally attached to

3) sign Colome and/or Hand

These moves likely consume any available budget so we go with what we have in RF which I'm fine with if it means 1) Giolito 2) Burnes 3) Darvish 4) Keuchel 5) Dunning/Kopech

The biggest challenge will be to pry Burnes away from Brewers but, if we can get over the initial angst of dealing one of our beloved, this rotation and lineup might win 105-110 games for each of the next 3 years and beyond.  

Ah yeah, the classic "this rotation would dominate baseball for five years" statement. 

It's not as if one team had:

Thor
Wheeler
DeGrom
Matz
Harvey

And was trash. 

There is no worse strategy in baseball than going all in on pitching by trading away young and damn good position players. In order to have a long period of sustained success you absolutely MUST develop pitchers in house and fill one or two gaps with FA but no more. You can't spend a big part of your FA money on pitching, and you can't trade serious position player assets for pitchers because pitchers are volatile as can be. Let your 162 guys carry the load, and develop and draft arms internally. This is where the Cubs failed and where the Sox truly can excel.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Ah yeah, the classic "this rotation would dominate baseball for five years" statement. 

It's not as if one team had:

Thor
Wheeler
DeGrom
Matz
Harvey

And was trash. 

There is no worse strategy in baseball than going all in on pitching by trading away young and damn good position players. In order to have a long period of sustained success you absolutely MUST develop pitchers in house and fill one or two gaps with FA but no more. You can't spend a big part of your FA money on pitching, and you can't trade serious assets for pitchers because pitchers are volatile as can be.

Respectfully disagree. Darvish for Cease and chum is a no-brainer and if you can somehow trade for Burnes, why on earth wouldn't you?

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Just now, Flash said:

Respectfully disagree. Darvish for Cease and chum is a no-brainer and if you can somehow trade for Burnes, why on earth wouldn't you?

Who is Chum?

Who would you trade for Burnes? 

If you're moving viable ++ position players from the MLB roster to trade for volatile pitching you will fail 9 out of 10 times. 

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8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign.  I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity.

Am I that transparent ? Personally, I'd be fine parting with Vaughn in trade but he wouldn't be near enough. Maybe something like Vaughn, Stiever (local kid) plus Flores and fillers. All depends on Brewers priorities (they need positional help everywhere). But, yeah, now that you mentioned it, I'd trade Eloy for Burnes straight up. Doubt Brewers would though.

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2 minutes ago, Flash said:

Am I that transparent ? Personally, I'd be fine parting with Vaughn in trade but he wouldn't be near enough. Maybe something like Vaughn, Stiever (local kid) plus Flores and fillers. All depends on Brewers priorities (they need positional help everywhere). But, yeah, now that you mentioned it, I'd trade Eloy for Burnes straight up. Doubt Brewers would though.

😂

The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Who is Chum?

Who would you trade for Burnes? 

If you're moving viable ++ position players from the MLB roster to trade for volatile pitching you will fail 9 out of 10 times. 

When you characterize position players as viable and pitching as volatile as though that is the rule, of course teams shouldn't do it. 

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Trading Eloy for Burnes might get graded as one of baseball's worst trades. Burnes is not even rated in the top tier of big league pitchers. 

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3 minutes ago, bear_brian said:

Trading Eloy for Burnes might get graded as one of baseball's worst trades. Burnes is not even rated in the top tier of big league pitchers. 

According to what rating system?

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5 minutes ago, Flash said:

When you characterize position players as viable and pitching as volatile as though that is the rule, of course teams shouldn't do it. 

Eloy Jimenez is a safe bet to be a damn good big leaguer for a long time. As a 23 year old he had a 141 wRC+. 

Corbin Burnes has thrown 146 big league innings at 26 years old and has a 4.48 ERA and 3.85 FIP. Prior to the past 60 game season, Corbin had a negative WAR. 

He had a nice little season last year and he might be a nice arm for a few years. You don't trade a locked up 23 year old hitter who has elite offensive skills for Corbin Burnes.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Eloy Jimenez is a safe bet to be a damn good big leaguer for a long time. As a 23 year old he had a 141 wRC+. 

Corbin Burnes has thrown 146 big league innings at 26 years old and has a 4.48 ERA and 3.85 FIP. Prior to the past 60 game season, Corbin had a negative WAR. 

He had a nice little season last year and he might be a nice arm for a few years. You don't trade a locked up 23 year old hitter who should elite skills for Corbin Burnes.

Imagine trading six years of cheap Eloy and the Burnes goes down with TJS!

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9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

😂

The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here.

I love Eloy....and I would strongly consider that trade. 

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1 minute ago, fathom said:

I love Eloy....and I would strongly consider that trade. 

Well, that's just completely whacko. 

Not only has Eloy been a better player to-date while being 4 years younger, but he's also controlled for two extra years. 

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine trading six years of cheap Eloy and the Burnes goes down with TJS!

Thank god we can count on Eloy for never getting injured :)

Sox won’t trade Eloy, but this isn’t exactly as lopsided as trading Luis Robert for Lance Lynn.

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7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

😂

The Brewers would drive Burnes here on a bicycle with him riding on the pegs to bring him here.

Not sure why you say that. 25 years old, 4 years of cheap control and among best peripheral metrics among pitchers. If philisophically, you don't trade for pitchers due to injury risk or fears they will forget how to pitch, thats one mans opinion. My point is adding Burnes to the rotation will translate to more wins than the retention of ANY of our positional players with possible exceptions of TA and Robert. I just use Eloy s example because he is of comparable value. 

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And don't get me wrong, Burnes is a nice piece but I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than trade a top tier young hitter who has proven he can succeed for an arm that has 60 successful innings under his belt. 

There are Corbin Burnes popping up every year; young guys who explode onto the scene and pitch real well; only to succumb to injury, or fall off, or diminished stuff, and on and on. I prefer young pitchers that haven't pitched in the big leagues, and older pitchers with a proven track record of health and success. That middle tier guy who hasn't proven himself but has look great in spots flames out over and over. It's why when I said German Marquez was the 13th ranked starter in baseball over the past three years some didn't believe it. Fact is, most guys aren't even healthy enough to pitch enough innings to earn enough value over three year periods. Durability is so important for a SP. 

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4 minutes ago, Flash said:

Not sure why you say that. 25 years old, 4 years of cheap control and among best peripheral metrics among pitchers. If philisophically, you don't trade for pitchers due to injury risk or fears they will forget how to pitch, thats one mans opinion. My point is adding Burnes to the rotation will translate to more wins than the retention of ANY of our positional players with possible exceptions of TA and Robert. I just use Eloy s example because he is of comparable value. 

Corbin Burnes is 26, he's never thrown more than 145 innings in a professional season. The last two years he threw 71 innings and 116 innings (not counting the 60 game season); I'm not hitching my rotation to that wagon; durability and proven ability to pitch deep into the season is 90% of a pitchers value when acquiring him IMO, and Burnes has never shown anyone he can throw a lot of innings and hold up and be successful. 

Again, he's a talented kid and could have a nice career. Eloy Jimenez is damn near guaranteed to be a 40+ HR guy for about 8 years. You don't move a guy with his bat and hitting ability for an unproven 26 year old SP during the middle of a contention window.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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I'm very high on Burnes. I believe he has figured it out and will be among the best pitchers in the game (as he was in '20) for years to come. Of course there is always injury risk but you can't plan trades around it. As for Eloy, I don't disagree he can hit 40+ HRs/yr. and I'd prefer not trading him but can't come up with anyone else, other than maybe TA or Robert who might be of interest to Brewers. If we can package Vaughn as a headliner, I'd do that, but I stand by my belief that Burnes will be worth more wins than any of our positional players with the posible aforementioned exceptions. And if we can pull off acquiring Darvish AND Burnes.......

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Trading Eloy would make the corner outfield position really weak (prior to additions).  

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1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Please stop with your trade Eloy campaign.  I know you didn’t say his name, but that is exactly what you are implying and it’s insanity.

are you serious

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imagine wanting to trade a cornerstone of the rebuild and a perennial HR crown candidate...for not even the best pitcher on the Brewers staff.

Woodruff or bust from the Brewers...even then I don't do Eloy for anyone, unless they are a top 10 pitcher in MLB with 3+ seasons of control. 

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Eloy is almost untouchable, if he is healthy for the Oakland series, Sox win..........He signed to a great deal and he is only going to grow.  He's a cornerstone and might be the best hitter on the team. 

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