Vulture Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Depending on the cost, sure. If the Sox are going to sign a reliever I'd like it to be Hendriks or Treinen. Also, I'd really like to acquire Darvish as well and have Dunning and Kopech duke it out for the 5th spot. I'm assuming Cease is gone in the Darvish deal. Lynn can stay as a pure rental and then break in Crochet as a SP in 2022. Under my scenario, dunning and kopech would still be duking it out at #5. You'd have Gio, Sugano, Keuchel and Lynn, and wouldn't have to give up Cease or anyone to acquire Sugano. Sugano is a workhorse stud, best pitcher in NPB. It's petty, but I'd prefer the cubs stay burned on that Eloy trade as well. Giving them Cease back, they could conceivably end up winning that trade. As for Colome, I was going relatively budget there since Sox would have to spend on Sugano. Colome has a longer track record of sustained success than those guys anyway, even if they have better stuff. Probably be more amenable to sliding to a setup role in a year or two if Bummer or someone emerges as clear superior option to close. I'd take any of those guys though, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Vulture said: Under my scenario, dunning and kopech would still be duking it out at #5. You'd have Gio, Sugano, Keuchel and Lynn, and wouldn't have to give up Cease or anyone to acquire Sugano. Sugano is a workhorse stud, best pitcher in NPB. It's petty, but I'd prefer the cubs stay burned on that Eloy trade as well. Giving them Cease back, they could conceivably end up winning that trade. As for Colome, I was going relatively budget there since Sox would have to spend on Sugano. Colome has a longer track record of sustained success than those guys anyway, even if they have better stuff. Probably be more amenable to sliding to a setup role in a year or two if Bummer or someone emerges as clear superior option to close. I'd take any of those guys though, sure. Colome has had some clear stuff deterioration over the years. He scares me. EDIT: I thought Sugano was Arihara. I'd be ok with Arihara. Can't find a scouting report on Sugano. Hendriks and Treinen still have their best stuff. Edited November 24, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 42 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: a trade for a cost controlled SP. With as many options that the Sox have with mid to TOR stuff, I wonder if the more prudent thing is to sign guys like Quintana, Richards and others in that ilk to ease the load of the Sox breaking in Kopech/Cease/Dunning/Crochet. Not to mention they would have every reason to start the year with Cease and Dunning in the rotation, and break Kopech in after the draft. I've made this point several times. The Quintana/Richard types hold down the fort until the new pitching coach fixes Cease, Dunning, Lopez, and Kopech. Spend the real money on RF and a top BP piece. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Colome has had some clear stuff deterioration over the years. He scares me. Sugano would be cool, got a scouting report on him? Similar to Tanaka? Hendriks and Treinen still have their best stuff. From what I've read and seen, he has decent velocity on his fastball but excellent movement along with a six pitch repertoire with which he has outstanding command, throws from various angles, and you can throw him out there at 100-120 pitches every time. Basically a bulldog with the stuff to back it up. Always some risk with NPB players, but I don't think anyone comparable has failed at mlb level recently. Tanaka might be comparable, although I think Sugano might have more tricks up his sleeve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Colome has had some clear stuff deterioration over the years. He scares me. EDIT: I thought Sugano was Arihara. I'd be ok with Arihara. Can't find a scouting report on Sugano. Hendriks and Treinen still have their best stuff. Sugano >>> Arihara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Vulture said: From what I've read and seen, he has decent velocity on his fastball but excellent movement along with a six pitch repertoire with which he has outstanding command, throws from various angles, and you can throw him out there at 100-120 pitches every time. Basically a bulldog with the stuff to back it up. Always some risk with NPB players, but I don't think anyone comparable has failed at mlb level recently. Tanaka might be comparable, although I think Sugano might have more tricks up his sleeve I was wondering about his fastball, as it's always a question with the Japanese pitchers. Also saw that he's 31 already. Based on what I've seen, both Arihara and Sugano sound like Tanaka clones, with Arihara the younger player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said: Sugano >>> Arihara Better secondaries? Apparently there's a question about whether Sugano will even be posted this year. Edited November 24, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Better secondaries? Sugano's secondaries are better and more numerous and he has way, WAY better command/control. Arihara throws a bit harder consistently, but they top out around the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said: Sugano's secondaries are better and more numerous and he has way, WAY better command/control. Arihara throws a bit harder consistently, but they top out around the same. It would be nice if the Sox could dip into Japan, but those guys usually either go to the West Coast teams or NYC. (used to be only the Yankees, but with the Mets ownership change that is probably no longer the case) Edited November 24, 2020 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I know a way we can get Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr....and we won’t have to give up that much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I was wondering about his fastball, as it's always a question with the Japanese pitchers. Also saw that he's 31 already. Based on what I've seen, both Arihara and Sugano sound like Tanaka clones, with Arihara the younger player. 31 isn't an issue when you're talking about contending immediately. I'd rather go with the superior player than the younger one. You were proposing a trade for 34 year old with repeated injury problems. Rather keep Cease and go with Sugano. Maybe I'm wrong with Sugano, but to me likely outcomes range from TOR to solid #3. 47 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Colome has had some clear stuff deterioration over the years. I don't know if I agree with that. The cutter he has developed the last couple years might be the best pitch he's ever had at this point. Dude just put up a .160 batting, .200 slugging against with zero home runs allowed season, slightly lower if you include post season closer to .150/.190 Edited November 25, 2020 by Vulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 8 minutes ago, Vulture said: 31 isn't an issue when you're talking about contending immediately. I'd rather go with the superior player than the younger one. You were proposing a trade for 34 year old with repeated injury problems. Rather keep Cease and go with Sugano. Maybe I'm wrong with Sugano, but to me likely outcomes range from TOR to solid #3. I don't know if I agree with that. The cutter he has developed the last couple years might be the best pitch he's ever had at this point. Dude just put up a .160 batting, .200 slugging against with zero home runs allowed season, slightly lower if you include post season closer to .150/.190 Colome used to throw 98 and now he barely gets to 95-96. He was sitting around 93 most of the year. His cutter is still really good, but even that has taken a step back in velocity. Colome, like Keuchel, has turned into a ground ball machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 42 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Based on what I've seen, both Arihara and Sugano sound like Tanaka clones, with Arihara the younger player. Comparing Arihara to Sugano is like comparing Wheeler to Strasburg or Cole. Just look at the stats, its not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Colome used to throw 98 and now he barely gets to 95-96. He was sitting around 93 most of the year. His cutter is still really good, but even that has taken a step back in velocity. Colome, like Keuchel, has turned into a ground ball machine. He never even threw a cutter before 2019, so I don't know where you get his velocity on that pitch is down. According to fangraphs, his fastball velocity is down an average of less than 1 mph from his younger years, but considering he has changed to a cutter focused approach, and that cutter was one of the most effective pitches in mlb, to me its almost irrelevant anyway. Edited November 25, 2020 by Vulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Vulture said: He never even through a cutter before 2019, so I don't know where you get his velocity on that pitch is down. According to fangraphs, his fastball velocity is down an average of less than 1 mph from his younger years, but considering he has changed to a cutter focused approach, and that cutter was one of the most effective pitches in mlb, to me its almost irrelevant anyway. Colome has thrown a cutter since his days in Tampa. It's always been his out pitch. He used to mix in a changeup as well but he has scrapped that and he's solely fastball-cutter now. Edited November 25, 2020 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Vulture said: Comparing Arihara to Sugano is like comparing Wheeler to Strasburg or Cole. Just look at the stats, its not even close Sugano and Darvish and spread the cost of an interpreter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) I guess you're half right upon further review. Colome didn't employ the cutter at all prior to 2017, according to fangraphs. Prior to that he used slider/curve/change, primarily slider, all of which were eliminated when he introduced the cutter. Still his average cutter velocity in '17 was 89.6, in 2020 it was 89.4. I wouldn't consider that to be a difference, and he has clearly perfected it over the last three years, so I still would have to disagree that his stuff has diminished. Every year since he switched to cutter he has improved from year to year. Edited November 25, 2020 by Vulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) Just now, southsider2k5 said: Soxtalk does not seem to be a happy place for you Was a joke. Jesus lol. That meme pass you by the past few weeks? Edited November 25, 2020 by Baron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) Also average fastball velocity in 2020 was 94.4 compared to averages of 94.7, 94.2, 94.1, 94.7, 95.1 and 95.1 from '13-'18, so I would say that is still within his career norm, rather than the loss of up to 5 mph like you were suggesting. The minimal difference from '18 could be accounted for as deliberate in order to improve command, as the results from '19 to '20 indicate he was more effective overall, just as easily as a loss. 0.7 is essentially nothing. How many pitchers put up a .200 slugging against? Hard to imagine a pitcher doing that with diminished stuff. Edited November 25, 2020 by Vulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Just now, Jose Abreu said: Exactly. Imagine that version of Dunn batting in the 7-9 area of the lineup and playing a good RF. That would be a very valuable player Exactly. His defense is actually quite good. Would save us quite a few runs over a full schedule. Also on Lynn having 1 year on his contract. I mean I don't think you'd have to break the bank to resign him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: I mean come on. If we're going to go down the rabbit hole with the food twitter accounts might as well believe Beggars too lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: That Schins guy is truly pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Baron said: I mean come on. If we're going to go down the rabbit hole with the food twitter accounts might as well believe Beggars too lol. Portillo’s has at least gotten stuff right and is worth keeping a close eye on because at some point he had access to legit info. These other accounts are just losers trying to capitalize off the attention of a different Twitter user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Portillo’s has at least gotten stuff right and is worth keeping a close eye on because at some point he had access to legit info. These other accounts are just losers trying to capitalize off the attention of a different Twitter user. Whos Schins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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