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9 hours ago, Orlando said:

The people saying Rosario sucks or wouldn’t be a good option in RF are probably the same ones who were pissed when we thought the Sox signed Ozuna. You get better when you can. And sometimes it pays handsomely like Ozuna did for the Braves. If they miss on Springer , Rosario would be an ok get because he’d would be an upgrade. He is one year removed from 34 home run and 107 rbi. 

Rosario doesn't suck.  He's a pretty good hitter - but he doesn't walk much at all.  He does hit from the left side which is a benefit.

I watch a lot of Twins baseball (I live in MN), and watch pretty much every game when the Sox aren't on.  He is a VERY bad defender.  Eloy level bad.  He is not a RF.  Sign Springer, move Eloy to DH, sign Rosario to play LF and trade Vaughn for elite SP could be a route, but short of moving Vaughn and shifting Eloy to DH, there is no role for Rosario on this team - just like Ozuna would not a fit either.

This isn't THAT hard to understand.  

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2 hours ago, tray said:

Given the premium price for top pitchers, I would think outside the box a little and see how much trade value Keuchel has provided that a younger pitcher comes back in a trade.

Something like  Keuchel plus Reylo plus Collins for either Snell or Plesac.

I think Keuchel started to regress a little last season.

wat?

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2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Rosario doesn't suck.  He's a pretty good hitter - but he doesn't walk much at all.  He does hit from the left side which is a benefit.

I watch a lot of Twins baseball (I live in MN), and watch pretty much every game when the Sox aren't on.  He is a VERY bad defender.  Eloy level bad.  He is not a RF.  Sign Springer, move Eloy to DH, sign Rosario to play LF and trade Vaughn for elite SP could be a route, but short of moving Vaughn and shifting Eloy to DH, there is no role for Rosario on this team - just like Ozuna would not a fit either.

This isn't THAT hard to understand.  

They could move Eloy to DH anyway, and just hang on to Vaughn for 2 years and stash him in the minors until Abreu's contract is up. 

I know everyone's really high on Vaughn's bat but for some reason I don't think he's MLB ready right now. He didn't do that great in the minors when he played. I need to see more down there. I'm also a bit concerned about his power as a 1B/DH guy. 

 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

They could move Eloy to DH anyway, and just hang on to Vaughn for 2 years and stash him in the minors until Abreu's contract is up. 

Move Eloy to DH to make room for an equally bad defensive LFer who is a worse hitter, while likely keeping a better hitter in the minors for a year.

Sign me up.

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Just now, Jack Parkman said:

They could move Eloy to DH anyway, and just hang on to Vaughn for 2 years and stash him in the minors until Abreu's contract is up. 

I've seen you say this like 5x recently.  Vaughn isn't spending any more than a few more weeks in the minors,  barring injury or trade.  

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12 minutes ago, bmags said:

Move Eloy to DH to make room for an equally bad defensive LFer who is a worse hitter, while likely keeping a better hitter in the minors for a year.

Sign me up.

Like I said....I'm not completely sold on Vaughn. I have no doubts about him as a contact hitter, but I'm not sure he's a 30 HR guy. 

I could see him as a guy that hits .300+ every year with a ridiculous OBP but only hits 18-25 HR/season with 35-40 2B. 

I think a guy like Vaughn has value, but I'm not sure how much value he has as a 1B/DH only guy. 

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward him as a trade piece. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Like I said....I'm not completely sold on Vaughn. I have no doubts about him as a contact hitter, but I could see him as a Casey Kotchman type. Not sure he's a 30 HR guy. 

Casey Kotchman was a 10 home guy, so you aren't sure he's a 30 homer guy, so he must be a 10 homer guy.

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4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Casey Kotchman was a 10 home guy, so you aren't sure he's a 30 homer guy, so he must be a 10 homer guy.

Ok I found Vaughn's comp.....Kevin Youkilis as a 1B

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/youklke01.shtml

Edited by Jack Parkman

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8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Like I said....I'm not completely sold on Vaughn. I have no doubts about him as a contact hitter, but I could see him as a Casey Kotchman type. Not sure he's a 30 HR guy. 

I could see him as a guy that hits .300+ every year with a ridiculous OBP but only hits 18-25 HR/season with 35-40 2B. 

I think a guy like Vaughn has value, but I'm not sure how much value he has as a 1B/DH only guy. 

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward him as a trade piece. 

The first three lines put you on an island completely by yourself. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They could move Eloy to DH anyway, and just hang on to Vaughn for 2 years and stash him in the minors until Abreu's contract is up. 

 

Wouldn't count on Abreu departing WS when current contract is up. He could be in the picture for several more years. 

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok I found Vaughn's comp.....Kevin Youkilis as a 1B. 

If that's your comp, for most of his career he's a big upgrade over Rosario, and it makes little sense to add Rosario if you think he needs to either be a DH or LF.

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

If that's your comp, for most of his career he's a big upgrade over Rosario, and it makes little sense to add Rosario if you think he needs to either be a DH or LF.

You guys see that one, right? 

The huge issue is that I see both Vaughn and Eloy as DH only. And obviously if you're going to pick, you pick Eloy. 

I think it's completely asinine to continue playing Eloy in the field. 

If they want to hold Vaughn down one more season I'm not opposed. 

Both Eloy and Rosario suck in the field, but if I had to choose I'd take Rosario in LF and Eloy and DH. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

The first three lines put you on an island completely by yourself. 

 

To expand on this, MLB has him with a 60 power expectation.  Eric Longenhagen compared him to Paul Konerko, and states that his trackman data could make him a .300/.400/.500 hitter at the major league level.  FutureSox loves him, and there is TONS of draft talk about him being 1-1 if he was something other than a 1B.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You guys see that one, right? 

The huge issue is that I see both Vaughn and Eloy as DH only. And obviously if you're going to pick, you pick Eloy. 

I think it's completely asinine to continue playing Eloy in the field. 

That ones fine, I hate player comps and don't think they add anything. If you would have said "I think he's closer to a 160 ISO than 200 I would have agreed, but when a guy whose basically around 110 ISO? 

I know people will cry about it being park driven, but I think Brandon Belt is also possible. But his approach being so good may mean he gets pitches he wants more and can drive them out even if his power isn't prodigious.

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9 minutes ago, bmags said:

That ones fine, I hate player comps and don't think they add anything. If you would have said "I think he's closer to a 160 ISO than 200 I would have agreed, but when a guy whose basically around 110 ISO? 

I know people will cry about it being park driven, but I think Brandon Belt is also possible. But his approach being so good may mean he gets pitches he wants more and can drive them out even if his power isn't prodigious.

Kotchman was literally the first guy that popped into my mind about someone that was supposed to be high BA/OBP and 18-22 HR/season. I thought he'd have more power than Kotchman but not a 25-30 HR guy. 

I should have done some more digging, then I found Youkilis. I'm not a huge fan of player comps either, but they're easy for people to understand. 

I like using 3 guys in a floor/average/ceiling format, and I guess I'd take Youkilis on the average portion for what I see Vaughn as. In terms of ceiling, the guy I think of is another Sox 1B/DH, and it's the one that wore the street the park is on. 

Speaking of that, I think it sucks that #35 was retired when James Shields got here because it would have been cool to see a jersey with Shields 35 on the Sox. 

Edited by Jack Parkman

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1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Kotchman was literally the first guy that popped into my mind about someone that was supposed to be high BA/OBP and 18-22 HR/season. I thought he'd have more power than Kotchman but not a 25-30 HR guy. 

I should have done some more digging, then I found Youkilis. I'm not a huge fan of player comps either, but they're easy for people to understand. 

The thing with a Youkilis comp and Vaughn though - that's actually a very good complementary player for this offense. If he can get walks to 12%, have <15% strikeout rate while providing an iso around 160 and greater on peak years, that's replacing a bat like Edwin who was just famine and no feast.

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Been thinking this over and here are the moves I'd like to see and they make sense to me.  We are in win now mode.  I understand we don't want to deplete the system, but the core is here.

1. Trade for Snell (Kopech/Vaughn/Steiver) are the guys to make this happen.  

2. Trade for Lynn and Gallo (Madrigal/Collins/whoever else makes sense).

3. Sign Springer

4. Sign La Stella

5. Resign Engel

6. Resign Colome

Lineup:

C- Yaz/Yermin (Give him a shot)

1B - Abreu/Yaz

2B - La Stella/Mendick/Leury

SS - TA/Mendick/Leury

3B - Yoan/Mendick

LF - Gallo/Engel/Leury

CF - Robert/Engel/Leury

RF - Springer/Engel/Leury

P

1 - Snell

2 - Giolito

3 - Keuchel

4 - Lynn

5 - Cease/Dunning

Pen

Foster/Heuer/Bummer/Marshall/Crotchet/Colome

 

 

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2 minutes ago, asherwood12 said:

Been thinking this over and here are the moves I'd like to see and they make sense to me.  We are in win now mode.  I understand we don't want to deplete the system, but the core is here.

1. Trade for Snell (Kopech/Vaughn/Steiver) are the guys to make this happen.  

2. Trade for Lynn and Gallo (Madrigal/Collins/whoever else makes sense).

3. Sign Springer

4. Sign La Stella

5. Resign Engel

6. Resign Colome

Lineup:

C- Yaz/Yermin (Give him a shot)

1B - Abreu/Yaz

2B - La Stella/Mendick/Leury

SS - TA/Mendick/Leury

3B - Yoan/Mendick

LF - Gallo/Engel/Leury

CF - Robert/Engel/Leury

RF - Springer/Engel/Leury

P

1 - Snell

2 - Giolito

3 - Keuchel

4 - Lynn

5 - Cease/Dunning

Pen

Foster/Heuer/Bummer/Marshall/Crotchet/Colome

 

 

Did we trade Eloy in this scenario?

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7 minutes ago, asherwood12 said:

Been thinking this over and here are the moves I'd like to see and they make sense to me.  We are in win now mode.  I understand we don't want to deplete the system, but the core is here.

1. Trade for Snell (Kopech/Vaughn/Steiver) are the guys to make this happen.  

2. Trade for Lynn and Gallo (Madrigal/Collins/whoever else makes sense).

3. Sign Springer

4. Sign La Stella

5. Resign Engel

6. Resign Colome

Lineup:

C- Yaz/Yermin (Give him a shot)

1B - Abreu/Yaz

2B - La Stella/Mendick/Leury

SS - TA/Mendick/Leury

3B - Yoan/Mendick

LF - Gallo/Engel/Leury

CF - Robert/Engel/Leury

RF - Springer/Engel/Leury

P

1 - Snell

2 - Giolito

3 - Keuchel

4 - Lynn

5 - Cease/Dunning

Pen

Foster/Heuer/Bummer/Marshall/Crotchet/Colome

 

 

LETS TRADE IT ALL! EVERYTHING WE'VE BEEN BUILDING FOR 5+ YEARS!  ALL CHIPS IN NOW! 2021 WORLD SERIES OR BUST!

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Reason I say this is Vaughn doesn't really have a spot.  Do we want him at full time DH for 2021 when he hasn't even seen a major league pitch?  Or do we ease him in..

Kopech could be a star, but who knows.. Rather get a current star.

Madrigal, could also be a nice player, but again he is replaceable.

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1 minute ago, knightni said:

Hello new person.

Dealing Vaughn and Kopech is probably not happening.

Which is fine, but I see them as unknowns right now for a known who is cost controlled and under contract for 5 years. 

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13 minutes ago, asherwood12 said:

Been thinking this over and here are the moves I'd like to see and they make sense to me.  We are in win now mode.  I understand we don't want to deplete the system, but the core is here.

1. Trade for Snell (Kopech/Vaughn/Steiver) are the guys to make this happen.  

2. Trade for Lynn and Gallo (Madrigal/Collins/whoever else makes sense).

3. Sign Springer

4. Sign La Stella

5. Resign Engel

6. Resign Colome

Lineup:

C- Yaz/Yermin (Give him a shot)

1B - Abreu/Yaz

2B - La Stella/Mendick/Leury

SS - TA/Mendick/Leury

3B - Yoan/Mendick

LF - Gallo/Engel/Leury

CF - Robert/Engel/Leury

RF - Springer/Engel/Leury

P

1 - Snell

2 - Giolito

3 - Keuchel

4 - Lynn

5 - Cease/Dunning

Pen

Foster/Heuer/Bummer/Marshall/Crotchet/Colome

 

 

This is a great way to turn a potential 4-6 year window of contention into a 2-3 year window.

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I've lived thru Bill Veecks trading Callison, Cash, Mincher, Romano and Battey after the 1959 season. It had devastating results on the White Sox franchise for years after that. I hope  they don't start trading there young talent again. Vaughn has so much upside, it would be nuts to trade him.

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