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Offseason Targets

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30 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think the plan would be to trade Grandal.  

So who is sitting on bench between Abreu, Grandal and Vaughn?

Cause if they want McCann catching most days as you state is their wish and they are willing to pay to get it, one of those three are on the bench.  

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1 hour ago, YourWhatHurts said:

This entire thread just rolled between Grandal's legs.  I love the idea of trading Grandal and bringing back McCann or bringing in Realmuto.

No, McCann just fell down trying to catch it

  • Haha 1

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3 hours ago, Tony said:

McCann-

5.1 IP, 3 H, 2 ER, 3 K

5.1 IP 7 H, 2 ER 1 K

7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 8K

6 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 4 K

 

Grandal- 

5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 K

8 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 3 K

6 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 7 K

5 IP, 7 H, 0 ER, 4 K

5 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 2 K

4 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 7 K

6 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 3 K

 

Honestly, Keuchle was pretty damn consistent on the mound all season. With McCann almost exclusively catching Gio, it made sense for Grandal to catch Keuchle the next day. But they had somewhat similar results. 

I've been very clear on this from the jump. I think McCann is more valuable to this team than people give him credit for, and would welcome him back, and hope he does come back to help the Sox win more ballgames. I also understand the financial side of things and can appreciate limited resources and not spending those resources on a "backup." I agree with that and would rather money is spent on the starting staff and in RF. But it's also just that....money. We were surprised at the extensions for Robert and Moncada. None of thought they would sign Grandal, and they were the highest bidder for Wheeler. Maybe they expand their budget to fit McCann into their original offseason plans. 

Having too many good players to fit a lineup is a problem I hope they face in 2021. 

Resigning McCann means there will be another hole on the roster that can’t be filled with a quality player.  Unless we are going to rock a $180M payroll or McCann will take a backup caliber salary it’s a ooor use of resources.

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26 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree with this.  Is $8-10 realistic?

 

All it takes is one team pissed they missed out on Realmuto. 

I don't think so. McCann will want a 3 year contract with potentially an option year to boot. He has worked his butt off for the last two years and risen to the top of the catching profession in baseball. 

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23 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're desperately trying to resign McCann.  I don't think they'll trade Grandal but McCann will get the lion share of the starts behind the plate if they're able to bring him back.  

I hope you are right.  What makes you say this?

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45 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I agree with this.  Is $8-10 realistic?

 

All it takes is one team pissed they missed out on Realmuto. 

Here's a great example how much McCann's value varies on this board. On one hand you got folks who question if he even has a decent market at this time, then folks who think $8-10M AAV isn't realistic, and there were a couple of posters who suggested he might reject a QO if Sox offered him one.

I think the issue is that McCann has looked great in limited situations but never proven himself has a above average full time starter - last year he was great in the first half and reverted back to his career norms in second half, this year he excelled in the short side of the platoon but was ordinary otherwise, I think it's hard to gauge how other teams would perceive on his true value. But I will say that he's never going to get Grandal type of money, on a normal year he's probably going to get 3/$30M, $33M if lucky. In this pandemic era however, I think if the best offer he gets is 3/$24M, then maybe a 2/$18M from the Sox with a player option in year 2 is enough to  bring him back, especially platooning Grandal and being Gio's personal catcher would make him look better than his skillset could offer. Also, I caveat this earlier by saying I don't think it's likely McCann comes back, but I think this is one of the only scenarios I see it happening.

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Is the QO gonna be 17 million?  If so we could just offer him that and destroy his market to have him for another year

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1 minute ago, Jerksticks said:

Is the QO gonna be 17 million?  If so we could just offer him that and destroy his market to have him for another year

You really want to have James McCann for another year for 17 million bucks? 😆😆

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7 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Here's a great example how much McCann's value varies on this board. On one hand you got folks who question if he even has a decent market at this time, then folks who think $8-10M AAV isn't realistic, and there were a couple of posters who suggested he might reject a QO if Sox offered him one.

I think the issue is that McCann has looked great in limited situations but never proven himself has a above average full time starter - last year he was great in the first half and reverted back to his career norms in second half, this year he excelled in the short side of the platoon but was ordinary otherwise, I think it's hard to gauge how other teams would perceive on his true value. But I will say that he's never going to get Grandal type of money, on a normal year he's probably going to get 3/$30M, $33M if lucky. In this pandemic era however, I think if the best offer he gets is 3/$24M, then maybe a 2/$18M from the Sox with a player option in year 2 is enough to  bring him back, especially platooning Grandal and being Gio's personal catcher would make him look better than his skillset could offer. Also, I caveat this earlier by saying I don't think it's likely McCann comes back, but I think this is one of the only scenarios I see it happening.

I think that I would offer McCann three years @$10M per year. I think that is a fair evaluation for both the team and the player. He's proven himself to me that he is a top five over-all catcher in all of baseball.

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11 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Is the QO gonna be 17 million?  If so we could just offer him that and destroy his market to have him for another year

Even higher.

 

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42 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What’s the plan for Vaughn then?

Trade him for Brandon Woodruff? A young top end rotation arm with significant control would be the ONLY thing I’d trade Vaughn for.

Absolutely Iove Vaughn.

Edited by hi8is
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10 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Trade him for Brandon Woodruff? A young top end rotation arm with significant control would be the ONLY thing I’d trade Vaughn for.

Absolutely Iove Vaughn.

If only....

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25 minutes ago, Flash said:

If only....

Yea, no joke!

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4 hours ago, Orlando said:

Trading Grandal would be one of the stupidest things the Sox could possibly do. Makes me sick.

I agree with you. They're not trading him. Just because they want to bring McCann back doesn't mean They're moving Grandal. Or They're still going to be able to meet Mccann's asking price. Like bmags said earlier its going to be a rough offseason - Especially at catcher. 

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I don't trade Vaughn for no one but an absolutely healthy top of the rotation starting pitcher with at least 3 years remaining on a contract. And I'd really have to think about that one even then.

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I love McCann, and I would hope he can be brought back.  But he will most likely go somewhere that he can be the starting catcher.  

For those ready to trade Grandal and sign McCann to a long-term deal, remember how much this board hated second half McCann in 2019.  Who's to say if 2020 had been a regular year that he wouldn't have been the same.

I do think he and Grandal make a great team, and the Sox would have the best catching tandem in the majors.  But as I said, McCann deserves to be a starter somewhere, and someone will pay him to be one.

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1 hour ago, hogan873 said:

I love McCann, and I would hope he can be brought back.  But he will most likely go somewhere that he can be the starting catcher.  

For those ready to trade Grandal and sign McCann to a long-term deal, remember how much this board hated second half McCann in 2019.  Who's to say if 2020 had been a regular year that he wouldn't have been the same.

I do think he and Grandal make a great team, and the Sox would have the best catching tandem in the majors.  But as I said, McCann deserves to be a starter somewhere, and someone will pay him to be one.

Very possible they can't get a deal done but they are trying. 

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7 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Very possible they can't get a deal done but they are trying. 

I am going to be really upset if a McCann deal costs us in another need.

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3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am going to be really upset if a McCann deal costs us in another need.

If it means we’re planning to spend ike crazy, then sign me up.  Unfortunately in the world of financial constraint, a space Reinsdorf typically operates within, a McCann signing likely means limitations elsewhere.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If it means we’re planning to spend ike crazy, then sign me up.  Unfortunately in the world of financial constraint, a space Reinsdorf typically operates within, a McCann signing likely means limitations elsewhere.

That's been the history for sure. But, I do have some hope. The locking up of a lot of great young talent for multiple years is something that I never expected. Did you? I just hope that this is a portend of things to come. Maybe the old skin flint wants to go out a winner. Maybe Jose can grab him the end of the game World Series baseball like Paulie did in 2005?:)

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2 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

That's been the history for sure. But, I do have some hope. The locking up of a lot of great young talent for multiple years is something that I never expected. Did you? I just hope that this is a portend of things to come. Maybe the old skin flint wants to go out a winner. Maybe Jose can grab him the end of the game World Series baseball like Paulie did in 2005?:)

The one thing we have done for a long time is lock up young talent early.  Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Santos, etc were some of the earliest ones.

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Trading Grandal is a great signal to future free agents: "Don't sign here if you value loyalty."

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I think there are two roads we can choose to go down:

1.  Let McCann walk and roll with one of the best catchers in baseball (Grandal)

or

2.  Sign McCann to be the primary catcher, which pushes Grandal to a DH/C/1B. Then trade Vaughn in a package for an absolute stud starting pitcher.

I'm one of the biggest Vaughn fans on this board, but I wouldn't hate option 2 if we got a legit ace.  I'm just not sure anybody is available who fits that description.

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