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Offseason Targets

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8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

When making a trade, what the other team wants or does is completely relevant. If you aren’t willing to give up the package I listed, then I respect that, and I can understand that. 

But you can’t talk about “overpaying” without taking into consideration what Colorado is willing to do. An overpay is when you give up more than what it would have taken for the other team to say yes.

Let’s say hypothetically that the bare minimum Colorado is willing to accept for Marquez is the exact package I listed. If Colorado is not willing to give up Marquez for less than that, then that’s the cost. You might not like the cost, but that’s what it will cost. An overpay would be giving up Vaughn when you didn’t need to. 

Again, none if this even needs to be said because it's just not a sensible trade for us. So if that is what we would have to give up and we don't, good. Would be glad to just move on.

Edited by RagahRagah

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I don't understand why everyone wants to trade players away when you can just sign them. You need depth to survive a full season and compete year after year.

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1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Again, none if this even needs to be said because it's just not a sensible trade for us. So if that is what we would have to give up and we don't, good. Would be glad to just move on.

That's why I asked you what your argument was. But instead of simply saying that you weren't willing to give up that package, your response was that what the other team wants or does is completely beside the point.

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33 minutes ago, striker said:

I don't understand why everyone wants to trade players away when you can just sign them. You need depth to survive a full season and compete year after year.

The goal now is to win championships. You do that by signing a top player or more in free agency but also by mixing in a trade or two to get a top player or someone of value if you can’t find that in free agency. They got some holes to fill this year in RF and SP. The market for top of the rotation SP’s this year is thin outside of a Bauer but realistically do you think they have a chance of signing him so the only other option is to go outside of free agency via trade for a top of the rotation SP. There are quite a bit of options for the back of the rotation on the market this year but not for the top of the rotation so you concentrate on signing a quality or top RF and a back of the rotation SP in free agency this year. 

Edited by maloney.adam

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6 minutes ago, striker said:

I don't understand why everyone wants to trade players away when you can just sign them. You need depth to survive a full season and compete year after year.

So was Boston stupid for giving up Moncada and Kopech for Sale when could have just spent money to sign a pitcher?

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1 hour ago, Heads22 said:

The yearly value does decline starting in 21, which is nice as well.

Darvish contract per Cots:

 

 

Yu Darvish rhp
6 years/$126M (2018-23)

  • 6 years/$126M (2018-23)
    • signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 2/13/18
    • 18:$25M, 19:$20M, 20:$22M, 21:$22M, 22:$19M, 23:$18M
    • may opt out of contract after 2019 season
    • award bonuses: $2M for Cy Young award ($1M for 2nd-5th in vote)
    • perks: club to furnish interpreter
    • no-trade protection: may block deals to all clubs in 2018 and 2019, may block trades to 12 clubs annually from 2020 to 2023

Ok so does anybody know if the White Sox are one of the 12 teams to which Darvish can block trades ?

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4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok so does anybody know if the White Sox are one of the 12 teams to which Darvish can block trades ?

I don't see why he would. Doesn't have to move and goes to a contender. 

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27 minutes ago, striker said:

I don't understand why everyone wants to trade players away when you can just sign them. You need depth to survive a full season and compete year after year.

Because you can get a better player signed to a better contract.

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2 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

I don't see why he would. Doesn't have to move and goes to a contender. 

Sure logically he wouldn't but people have their own reasons. I'd just feel better on speculating over a Darvish trade if I knew it had a chance to happen. I suppose he could waive that clause or change his list.

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Marquez is a great idea...if you want to lose 6 years of someone important, and probably 10-12 years of two important pieces. Bauer at just money and a 2nd round pick is much better IMO and in the long run probably nets more WAR, more wins and most importantly is a real ACE. The Cubs finished their rebuild with an ace (Lester), the Sox can do just that as well and with a 1 2 3 of Giolito, Bauer and Keuchel everything else will work itself out - Dunning/Kopech/Cease whatever. 

This is my offseason Option 1 plan: 

Bauer - 5 year deal
Jackie Bradley Jr.  2 year deal with 3rd year option
McCann (to DH and Catch - allows Vaughn some time if needed) - 3 year deal with opt out after 1 season
Kluber on a 1 year deal (2nd year opton based on innings performance) 
Package Stiever and another Prospect for an elite set up man so Bummer can slot into closer

Option 2 plan:

Quintana 3 year deal
Kluber on a 1 year deal (2nd year option based on innings performance)  or Paxton if a similar deal is attainable
Springer 4 year deal with 5th year option
Jason Castro 2 year deal
Liam Hendricks 3 year deal

Edited by EloyJenkins

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13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sure logically he wouldn't but people have their own reasons. I'd just feel better on speculating over a Darvish trade if I knew it had a chance to happen. I suppose he could waive that clause or change his list.

Do you expect that to become public knowledge?

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2 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Why the fuck would anyone wanna trade all that for Marquez? What did I miss? Am I ignorant and he's actually an elite starter? Even for Darvish, all that is a ridiculous overpay. 

What is with all these ridiculous Madrigal, Cease++ trade proposals lately? Jesus. These guys are our future. 

EXACTLY!

Did we suffer through a rebuild to acquire elite, blue chip prospects, only to sell low on them, just because they didn’t light the world on fire right off the bat (literally)?
 

For now, Madrigal, Cease, and Vaughn should be untouchables due to their huge ceilings.  Period.  
 

We can acquire that which we need in the starting rotation and in right field via free agency by just spending some cash.  Let these wonderful prospects build up some value before we start packaging them all up in the kind of trade proposals being put forth here.  

Edited by Thad Bosley
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49 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

That's why I asked you what your argument was. But instead of simply saying that you weren't willing to give up that package, your response was that what the other team wants or does is completely beside the point.

Actually that was obviously implied with my very first post.

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24 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Do you expect that to become public knowledge?

I don't expect anything . Sometimes these things are made public. It's not unheard of.

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25 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:


Package Stiever and another Prospect for an elite set up man so Bummer can slot into closer

 

Bummer is an elite set-up man. You don't need that kind of talent to pitch 1 clean inning.   A closer just needs to be a good pitcher, with stones (Colome e.g.).

Not sure of the fascination with Marquez; yes he's a good pitcher. I sense some wishcasting that he'll suddenly be elite once he leaves Colorado and the price appears to be set at that level.  Doubtful.

For a pitcher trade, I'd look at Musgrove. He has AL experience, he's been solid with Pittsburgh and his price would be very reasonable.  Well it should be and if it isn't, then move on.

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19 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Actually that was obviously implied with my very first post.

Agreed. But I wasn’t sure if you simply weren’t willing to give up that much or if you weren’t willing to give up that much AND you didn’t think it would take that much for Colorado to part ways with Marquez.

I was forming an argument as to why I believe it WOULD take that much, and then I realized that might not even make a difference to you, which is why I asked you to clarify. 

Now I completely understand your viewpoint. I don’t agree, and I probably would pull the trigger on that trade, but I respect your side of it and understand not wanting to give up that much. 

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2 hours ago, Orlando said:

Bruce Levine sucks, unless he’s reporting Sox stuff. Dude definitely is connected to our FO

He's lucky he didn't join McNeil after his tweet this Summer. I do agree he sucks, and swallows, anything Jerry and Co. feeds him.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/08/24/bruce-levine-tweet/

I also don't see the Cubs having a major fire sale, and Darvish would be the last to go, and these Marquez proposals here are absurd. I rather play out with what the Sox have vs. overpaying prospects for 1 or 2 pieces. Expect at least a few of the young starters to take a leap forward with Cooper gone and Katz here.

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52 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

EXACTLY!

Did we suffer through a rebuild to acquire elite, blue chip prospects, only to sell low on them, just because they didn’t light the world on fire right off the bat (literally)?
 

For now, Madrigal, Cease, and Vaughn should be untouchables due to their huge ceilings.  Period.  
 

We can acquire that which we need in the starting rotation and in right field via free agency by just spending some cash.  Let these wonderful prospects build up some value before we start packaging them all up in the kind of trade proposals being put forth here.  

Yes.  This is such a perfect opportunity to become a monster franchise for a decade+.  Spend cash galore in a discounted market.  Then we have a fully maxed team with a huge farm on tap.  Better than the Dodgers for half the price.   Just spend this year to bridge the pitching development gap.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

He's lucky he didn't join McNeil after his tweet this Summer. I do agree he sucks, and swallows, anything Jerry and Co. feeds him.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/08/24/bruce-levine-tweet/

I also don't see the Cubs having a major fire sale, and Darvish would be the last to go, and these Marquez proposals here are absurd. I rather play out with what the Sox have vs. overpaying prospects for 1 or 2 pieces. Expect at least a few of the young starters to take a leap forward with Cooper gone and Katz here.

The link you posted was painful. But Bruce clearly posted that by accident, not intentionally. The guy barely knows how to tweet.

If you really think he should have been fired over that, you represent the lowest of the scum in the cancel culture. Fire a guy over a mistakenly posted tweet. To tell with that man's job. He accidentally posted something minorly offensive. 

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4 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The link you posted was painful. But Bruce clearly posted that by accident, not intentionally. The guy barely knows how to tweet.

If you really think he should have been fired over that, you represent the lowest of the scum in the cancel culture. Fire a guy over a mistakenly posted tweet. To tell with that man's job. He accidentally posted something minorly offensive. 

You can't even type what was in Levine's post on this board. What kind of scum has that kind of photo on his phone?  What would you say or do if someone said that about your mother, wife or daughter? Would he still be there if it were Michelle Obama instead? 

“Jerry's guys". Mike North, his media guy. LaRussa, his baseball guy. Levine and Nightengale there to ask asinine questions and carry Reinsdorf's water by leaking and saying stupid shit. A DUI jail sentence is the equivalent of staying home with the flu. What kind of "man" makes a living this way.

All of them crony worthless morons. None of them with the male anatomy to take responsibility for their pathetic actions. Birds of a feather, Reinsdorf's flock. Time for the chickens to come home to roost.

Edited by South Side Hit Men

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3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You can't even type what was in Levine's post on this board. What kind of scum has that kind of photo on his phone?  What would you say or do if someone said that about your mother, wife or daughter? Would he still be there if it were Michelle Obama instead? 

“Jerry's guys". Mike North, his media guy. LaRussa, his baseball guy. Levine and Nightengale there to ask asinine questions and carry Reinsdorf's water by leaking and saying stupid shit. A DUI jail sentence is the equivalent of staying home with the flu. What kind of "man" makes a living this way.

All of them crony worthless morons. None of them with the male anatomy to take responsibility for their pathetic actions. Birds of a feather, Reinsdorf's flock. Time for the chickens to come home to roost.

How the f*** did we not have a thread here on that when it happened?

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Madrigal will not be traded...especially following offseason shoulder surgery.

The tea leaves suggest Lynn as a target with a possible return to TX for recently drafted Jarrod Kelley in exchange.

Doubt Cease or Kopech get moved (unless Cubs dangle Darvish in which case we should lead with Cease). 

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7 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

EXACTLY!

Did we suffer through a rebuild to acquire elite, blue chip prospects, only to sell low on them, just because they didn’t light the world on fire right off the bat (literally)?
 

For now, Madrigal, Cease, and Vaughn should be untouchables due to their huge ceilings.  Period.  
 

We can acquire that which we need in the starting rotation and in right field via free agency by just spending some cash.  Let these wonderful prospects build up some value before we start packaging them all up in the kind of trade proposals being put forth here.  

I don’t disagree with you but I also note the situation the White Sox have created. Right now, on the books for 2022, they have $105 million in committed contracts and that is before any arbitration cases, which includes Giolito. If you take on 3 multi year deals for bullpen, pitcher, and RF, then you have to be ready for a $160 or $170  million 2022 payroll.

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3 minutes ago, Flash said:

Madrigal will not be traded...especially following offseason shoulder surgery.

The tea leaves suggest Lynn as a target with a possible return to TX for recently drafted Jarrod Kelley in exchange.

Doubt Cease or Kopech get moved (unless Cubs dangle Darvish in which case we should lead with Cease). 

Trading a guy who we drafted highly and who we have never once seen against minor league competition for an expensive player with 1 year of control? Love it, classic Rick Hahn special.

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7 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

Agreed. But I wasn’t sure if you simply weren’t willing to give up that much or if you weren’t willing to give up that much AND you didn’t think it would take that much for Colorado to part ways with Marquez.

I was forming an argument as to why I believe it WOULD take that much, and then I realized that might not even make a difference to you, which is why I asked you to clarify. 

Now I completely understand your viewpoint. I don’t agree, and I probably would pull the trigger on that trade, but I respect your side of it and understand not wanting to give up that much. 

Lol why. Why essentially trade the farm for 1 pitcher who is really not even that great.

Edited by RagahRagah

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