Offseason Targets

[Flash]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Trading a guy who we drafted highly and who we have never once seen against minor league competition for an expensive player with 1 year of control? Love it, classic Rick Hahn special.

Not advocating it but TX will want someone interesting. This board has already shot down the possibility of trading anyone, even for a quality starter. 

[SoxBlanco]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

Lol why. Why essentially trade the farm for 1 pitcher who is really not even that great.

I don't view it anywhere close to "trading the farm", especially without giving up Vaughn, Kopech, Crochet, Dunning, Kelly, Thompson, or Dalquist. Marquez has four years of control left. Wouldn't Marquez and Cease both be free agents in 2025? So we are essentially swapping those two without jeopardizing any amount of control. And to make that upgrade, we have to give up Stiever and Madrigal (Adolfo doesn't appear to be in our future plans). I like Madrigal more than most, but I think we can easily find another 2B. 

I think we just view Marquez differently. I think he's a lot better than you are giving him credit for, especially when you look at his numbers away from Coors.

[RagahRagah]

7 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I don't view it anywhere close to "trading the farm", especially without giving up Vaughn, Kopech, Crochet, Dunning, Kelly, Thompson, or Dalquist. Marquez has four years of control left. Wouldn't Marquez and Cease both be free agents in 2025? So we are essentially swapping those two without jeopardizing any amount of control. And to make that upgrade, we have to give up Stiever and Madrigal (Adolfo doesn't appear to be in our future plans). I like Madrigal more than most, but I think we can easily find another 2B. 

I think we just view Marquez differently. I think he's a lot better than you are giving him credit for, especially when you look at his numbers away from Coors.

Cease still has a lot of upside and potentially can be much better than Marquez. So let's trade him AND a potential All Star 2B (who just hit .340 in his rookie season) AND at least one of our top prospects as well, plus one more guy.

LOL no.

Edited November 16, 2020 by RagahRagah

[Chicago White Sox]

We got to hope that the Mets are prioritizing Realmuto and pitching over the OF.  If so, it really does seem that we could be the favorites for Springer.  I’m crossing my fingers as he is such a crazy good fit for this club despite being RH.

The more I think about it, the more I love the idea of a Springer + Darvish offseason.  Add a upside bullpen arm on the cheap (Yates for 1/$6M?) and someone to compete against Cease & Kopech for the 5th spot (Archer for 1/$5M?) and go to war.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Cease still has a lot of upside and potentially can be much better than Marquez. So let's trade him AND a potential All Star 2B (who just hit .340 in his rookie season) AND at least one of our top prospects as well, plus one more guy.

LOL no.

Marquez is awesome. I dont think you are giving him enough credit at all.

[Flash]

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We got to hope that the Mets are prioritizing Realmuto and pitching over the OF.  If so, it really does seem that we could be the favorites for Springer.  I’m crossing my fingers as he is such a crazy good fit for this club despite being RH.

The more I think about it, the more I love the idea of a Springer + Darvish offseason.  Add a upside bullpen arm on the cheap (Yates for 1/$6M?) and someone to compete against Cease & Kopech for the 5th spot (Archer for 1/$5M?) and go to war.

That would be my wish list as well but they would combine for over $40M for the next 3 yrs and beyond (Springer). I also think Cubs would insist on Cease or Kopech in exchange AND, if an auction occurs, we might have to take on another contract, i.e. Kimbrel. All of which is do-able but unlikely at least until greater visibility into gate revenue for '21 and beyond. 

[Orlando]

Marquez out of Coors could be very Bauer like for a fraction of the $$

Edited November 16, 2020 by Orlando

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Marquez out of Coors could be very Bauer like for a fraction of the $$

And a huge piece of the farm.

[Orlando]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And a huge piece of the farm.

Depends on what you call a huge piece. The only huge piece the Sox have is Vaughn in my opinion. Madrigal can easily be replaced. Kopech is a wildcard at this point. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Depends on what you call a huge piece. The only huge piece the Sox have is Vaughn in my opinion. Madrigal can easily be replaced. Kopech is a wildcard at this point. 

Kopech is that one piece that feels like you could really get your ass handed to you for moving him. I think he's got quite a bit of risk, but the ceiling is still so tantalizing. 

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Orlando said:

Depends on what you call a huge piece. The only huge piece the Sox have is Vaughn in my opinion. Madrigal can easily be replaced. Kopech is a wildcard at this point. 

You are probably looking at least a couple of top 100 players, and 3 to 4 of the top 10.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

You are probably looking at least a couple of top 100 players, and 3 to 4 of the top 10.

It is the Rockies, so don't be shocked if the return isn't what you would think it should be. 

Maybe the Sox get lucky and the Rockies are in love with one of the middle level prospects. I agree though that money is better spent than assets.

[fathom]

Sox reportedly not one of the teams interested in Odorizzi. That makes me happy, as I don’t think he’d be a good fit. Also, if Bauer goes to the Angels, I think Yu to the Mets makes a ton of sense.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just now, fathom said:

Sox reportedly not one of the teams interested in Odorizzi. That makes me happy, as I don’t think he’d be a good fit. Also, if Bauer goes to the Angels, I think Yu to the Mets makes a ton of sense.

How can the Angels even afford another super high priced player?

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox reportedly not one of the teams interested in Odorizzi. That makes me happy, as I don’t think he’d be a good fit. Also, if Bauer goes to the Angels, I think Yu to the Mets makes a ton of sense.

That's a shame. I imagine in one year's time we'll be posing hypothetical trade deals for odorizzi, personally.

[maloney.adam]

17 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox reportedly not one of the teams interested in Odorizzi. That makes me happy, as I don’t think he’d be a good fit. Also, if Bauer goes to the Angels, I think Yu to the Mets makes a ton of sense.

This is strange, Al’s Cheesy Beef tweeted that the Sox are interested in Odorizzi and than deleted the tweet. He’s now tweeting about Quintana and how he would be a perfect fit for the backend of the rotation. What are your thoughts on Quintana?

Edited November 16, 2020 by maloney.adam

[RagahRagah]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Marquez is awesome. I dont think you are giving him enough credit at all.

That's part of why I asked. But you really think he's worth all that? 

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

This is strange, Al’s Cheesy Beef tweeted that the Sox are interested in Odorizzi and than deleted the tweet. He’s now tweeting about Quintana and how he would be a perfect fit for the backend of the rotation. What are your thoughts on Quintana?

Not specifically talking about any of these “burner accounts”, but some of these are naming every single free agent as a player Sox might have interest in.  Q of course if a favorite of ours, but I think I would rather take a chance on Minor than him.

[Flash]

12 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

The Clevinger trade is a reasonable baseline on what to expect a Marquez trade to look like and Cleveland didn't receive anything remotely close to Madrigal + Cease + Stiever.

At time of trade, Clevinger had surplus value of @$38M and the package from Padres was a bit light of that. Marquuez has surplus value of $98M now. Its not a relevant comp.

[maloney.adam]

10 minutes ago, fathom said:

Not specifically talking about any of these “burner accounts”, but some of these are naming every single free agent as a player Sox might have interest in.  Q of course if a favorite of ours, but I think I would rather take a chance on Minor than him.

He re-posted the tweet and is now saying the Sox have interest in Odorizzi but he’s not a main target. The Mets and Twins are 1a and 1b. Lmao at these burner accounts. 😂 

Edited November 16, 2020 by maloney.adam

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

That's part of why I asked. But you really think he's worth all that? 

I'm on the fence.

On one side, I think I would pay a lot for a young, proven, cost controlled starter like Marquez who has top-notch stuff and has shown immense durability.

On the other side, I am concerned about trading Kopech because his ceiling is possibly higher than Marquez. Cease, I would be more willing to listen and a package built around Cease/Madrigal (even though I like Big sticks) couldn't potentially hurt you as much as putting Kopech in a trade could. The odds that Cease is as good as Marquez is not all that high - it's possible, but just not likely - and Madrigal is a really nice piece IF you are a team who can't spend money. If the Sox want to start spending, and they want to replace Madrigal with a veteran who costs 10 times as much that's fin with me.

In general, I'd trade likely anyone but Vaughn/Kopech in the deal to the Rockies. Marquez is one of my favorite arms in all of baseball, so I am a bit bias on this one but I'd give up A LOT to get Marquez under the roof for the next 4 years.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

At time of trade, Clevinger had surplus value of @$38M and the package from Padres was a bit light of that. Marquuez has surplus value of $98M now. Its not a relevant comp.

So they'd have to trade 2.5 Clevingers for 1 Marquez??? Yeah... When are you going to stop babling about surplus value

[bmags]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm on the fence.

On one side, I think I would pay a lot for a young, proven, cost controlled starter like Marquez who has top-notch stuff and has shown immense durability.

On the other side, I am concerned about trading Kopech because his ceiling is possibly higher than Marquez. Cease, I would be more willing to listen and a package built around Cease/Madrigal (even though I like Big sticks) couldn't potentially hurt you as much as putting Kopech in a trade could. The odds that Cease is as good as Marquez is not all that high - it's possible, but just not likely - and Madrigal is a really nice piece IF you are a team who can't spend money. If the Sox want to start spending, and they want to replace Madrigal with a veteran who costs 10 times as much that's fin with me.

In general, I'd trade likely anyone but Vaughn/Kopech in the deal to the Rockies. Marquez is one of my favorite arms in all of baseball, so I am a bit bias on this one but I'd give up A LOT to get Marquez under the roof for the next 4 years.

I obviously like the talent, but I just don't think the sox are at a point where they need to pay out of depth for the exhorbitant talent price for cost-control.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

32 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox reportedly not one of the teams interested in Odorizzi. That makes me happy, as I don’t think he’d be a good fit. Also, if Bauer goes to the Angels, I think Yu to the Mets makes a ton of sense.

Thank goodness for that; have no desire in watching fly ball after fly ball sore out of the park. One of the huge draws to Marquez for me is his GB%; being in the top 10 amongst starters workers and plays well at our ballpark.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

So they'd have to trade 2.5 Clevingers for 1 Marquez??? Yeah... When are you going to stop babling about surplus value

Totally agree with this. Both $$/War and surplus value always feel like a retrofitting exercise and never that helpful as a predictive measure.