Are Dunning and/or Cease Slotted into the 2021 Starting Rotation?

[ron883 2,283]

Cease obviously had a very rough year, but he has the stuff to be a good started if he could improve his command. He pitched flat out poorly and needs to take some big steps this offseason.

Dunning was dynamite at first, but got worse as the season went on. This could easily be attributed to fatigue from his TJ surgery.

Are you slotting either into the rotation? If not, do you send them to AAA or put them in the bullpen? I think Dunning showed enough to earn a rotation spot. It may come down to which players looks better in the spring, and if the Sox land any starters.

[TomPickle 493]

Right now both are clearly in the rotation. How are we supposed to answer this question before the off-season even starts? Who is pushing them out of the rotation right now Lopez, Rodon, and Kopech?

[Balta1701 2,912]

Even if they sign someone else, they should be. This is not the season to judge a guy to be a failure based on 10 starts, especially not the first 10-20 starts of their career. It should be:

Person X
Giolito
Keuchel
Dunning
Cease
Person Q/Lopez/Kopech/Steiver and others.

[Buehrle5687 21]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Even if they sign someone else, they should be. This is not the season to judge a guy to be a failure based on 10 starts, especially not the first 10-20 starts of their career. It should be:

Person X
Giolito
Keuchel
Dunning
Cease
Person Q/Lopez/Kopech/Steiver and others.

I think you're right.  We need a TOR arm, and Kopech doesn't automatically make the rotation opening day.  I'm ready to let Lopez become someone else's project though.

[supernuke 62]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Even if they sign someone else, they should be. This is not the season to judge a guy to be a failure based on 10 starts, especially not the first 10-20 starts of their career. It should be:

Person X
Giolito
Keuchel
Dunning
Cease
Person Q/Lopez/Kopech/Steiver and others.

I would prefer:

Person X
Giolito
Keuchel
Person Y
Cease

Dunning/Kopech etc.

[KrankinSox 329]

If the Sox can sign a top level starting pitcher (Bauer or Stroman), I would use Dunning or Cease in a trade to improve the team elsewhere (right field).

I'd sign a cheap, veteran back end of the rotation guy as well. This free agent can serve as a long reliever and spot starter. Go into the season with the following:

Giolito

Free Agent

Keuchel

Kopech

Cease/Dunning

Free Agent #2

Stiever/Lambert/Lopez/Etc.

[SonofaRoache 1,386]

31 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Cease obviously had a very rough year, but he has the stuff to be a good started if he could improve his command. He pitched flat out poorly and needs to take some big steps this offseason.

Dunning was dynamite at first, but got worse as the season went on. This could easily be attributed to fatigue from his TJ surgery.

Are you slotting either into the rotation? If not, do you send them to AAA or put them in the bullpen? I think Dunning showed enough to earn a rotation spot. It may come down to which players looks better in the spring, and if the Sox land any starters.

Or him facing better teams. If we sign a FA, our top 3 are set. The rest of the guys can fight for 4th and 5th spots. If no one claims it with authority by July, you trade for another starter and slot Kopech in. 

[South Side Hit Men 471]

37 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Cease obviously had a very rough year, but he has the stuff to be a good started if he could improve his command. He pitched flat out poorly and needs to take some big steps this offseason.

Dunning was dynamite at first, but got worse as the season went on. This could easily be attributed to fatigue from his TJ surgery.

I would disagree Cease had a "very rough year". He was 5-4, 4.01 ERA, 0.1 WAR, good at times, lacked command other times. He's also young for a starting pitcher (24) with 1 full season (26 starts) at the ML level. He has promise, and should be able to improve as he gains experience and works on gaining command.

Dunning is a AA pitcher coming off of a major injury, who would have benefited from experience at the AAA level. He was thrown into the fire and had very good performances. Like Cease, he is young (25). In a perfect world, he would start the year at AAA and continue to learn his craft.

Lopez is the one starter who took a step back this year and rightfully identified as having "a very rough year". Beyond his two solid outings at the end of the year (Det and at Cleve) , he was unable to gain command of his pitches. He has a lively arm, though he may never be able to live to his potential.

[fathom 5,539]

Cease had a bad year, significant regression in terms of his ability going forward.

[southsider2k5 5,827]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Cease had a bad year, significant regression in terms of his ability going forward.

Cease is also a guy who hasn't lost stuff.  Much like Giolito he could be one side session away from figuring out how to lock in a repeat his throwing.  Or he could be years away.  That arm will give him additional chances.

Personally I think they bring in another starter, with Dunning and Cease slotting in at the 4th and 5th starters next year, with Lopez fighting for a spot as well.  Kopech will start off on a throwing program and be back in May or June if one of them fails or there is an injury.

[jamesdiego 41]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Cease is also a guy who hasn't lost stuff.  Much like Giolito he could be one side session away from figuring out how to lock in a repeat his throwing.  Or he could be years away.  That arm will give him additional chances.

Personally I think they bring in another starter, with Dunning and Cease slotting in at the 4th and 5th starters next year, with Lopez fighting for a spot as well.  Kopech will start off on a throwing program and be back in May or June if one of them fails or there is an injury.

Yea, I’m more with you.  I don’t see them bringing in two starters in free agency.  We have too many young pitchers and they need to be thrown into the fire to see what they really are and see if there’s any improvement.  
 

I’ll have a competition for two spots with Dunning, Cease and Kopech.  Lopez is on the outside looking in.  
 

I’d like a to see a new pitching coach with fresh ideas to see if they could improve Cease before trading him.  

[Dominikk85 395]

I think everyone should get a chance in spring, even reylo and rodon (if he is not non tendered) but they really need to show something there (command, velo, strikeouts) to get a spot.

[manbearpuig 1,384]

2 hours ago, Buehrle5687 said:

I think you're right.  We need a TOR arm, and Kopech doesn't automatically make the rotation opening day.  I'm ready to let Lopez become someone else's project though.

I think they should convert him to the pen. If he has any options left, let him start next season working in the pen in Charlotte.

Edited October 2, 2020 by soxfan2014

[Buehrle5687 21]

13 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I think they should convert him to the pen. If he has any options left, let him start next season working in the pen in Charlotte.

Not a terrible idea assuming there's a minor league season next year. 

[manbearpuig 1,384]

34 minutes ago, Buehrle5687 said:

Not a terrible idea assuming there's a minor league season next year. 

Also a good point. 

[TheFutureIsNear 196]

Not even a question in my mind. Both are in the rotation next year. 
 

Either via FA or trade we need to add a guy who can can give us minimum 180 innings and 3.5 era. A Compliment to Gio and DK at the top of the rotation. Cease and Dunning for dirt cheap as our 4th and 5th starters is great. Unless 1 of them gets beat out by an internal option it’s a no brainer they are slotted in. Spending assets to replace them would be crazy IMO. Starter and RF should be the focus 

[joesaiditstrue 370]

My guess:  Cease starts the year in the rotation, Dunning starts in Charlotte

[SkokieSox 53]

14 hours ago, jamesdiego said:

Yea, I’m more with you.  I don’t see them bringing in two starters in free agency.  We have too many young pitchers and they need to be thrown into the fire to see what they really are and see if there’s any improvement.  
 

I’ll have a competition for two spots with Dunning, Cease and Kopech.  Lopez is on the outside looking in.  
 

I’d like a to see a new pitching coach with fresh ideas to see if they could improve Cease before trading him.  

I hope that pitching coach is Bauer

[GradMc 244]

With this owner they both are slotted because he has no intentions of spending the money for the type of vetted different-makers that would elevate the Sox to championship level.

The horrid manager-pitching coach combo ain't going no where either. The more the base complains, the more ownership doubles-down.

His MO has always been clear:

Championships are coincidental to achieving his financial bottom line objectives.

He is not a sportsman.

He's a businessman who profits from the circus of sports ownership.

Edited October 3, 2020 by GradMc

[Rowand44 626]

I don't think either should be locked into a spot but at least one of them will be in the rotation.  Sign a starter and let Kopech, Cease and Dunning fight it out for the last 2 spots.

[Dick Allen 3,498]

I like Dunning’s and Cease’s chances next year a lot better than I like Gio Gonzalez’s this season. They got some more experience, Dunning will be stronger, he probably will show more of the command he was known for. With Cease, sometimes you have to be bad before you are good. All he needs is some command. Obviously that isn’t a little thing, but if he gets some, if he is at the bottom of your rotation, your rotation will be pretty good. And pitchers are going to get hurt. Hopefully all these guys come back next spring ready to go. Get some rest, have a normal offseason. Hopefully 2021 will be a full normal season.

[Chicago White Sox 5,596]

19 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Or him facing better teams. If we sign a FA, our top 3 are set. The rest of the guys can fight for 4th and 5th spots. If no one claims it with authority by July, you trade for another starter and slot Kopech in. 

100% agree with this.  Dane Dunning put up a 3.99 FIP across his first seven starts in his first season returning from TJS.  He should clearly start the season as our #4 starter.  Dylan Cease had an ugly 2020 season, but is a former top 30 prospect, has elite fastball velocity, and only has 26 starts to his name.  They’ll give him another shot next year and he should slot in as the #5 starter to open the season.  Kopech gets two months in Charlotte before taking over for the weakest pitcher in the rotation.  That should be the plan and we just need a legit #2 / #3 starter to make it work.

[Chicago White Sox 5,596]

19 hours ago, fathom said:

Cease had a bad year, significant regression in terms of his ability going forward.

I don’t follow.  Yes, his 2020 season was bad and he showed little signs of progression, but I’m not sure how that changes his ability going forward.  He still only has 26 starts to his name and I wouldn’t overreact to a COVID shortened season.  Personally, I think he’s some grip / mechanical changes away from taking the leap, although the lack of curveball usage with Cooper as our pitching coach admittedly scares me.

[fathom 5,539]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t follow.  Yes, his 2020 season was bad and he showed little signs of progression, but I’m not sure how that changes his ability going forward.  He still only has 26 starts to his name and I wouldn’t overreact to a COVID shortened season.  Personally, I think he’s some grip / mechanical changes away from taking the leap, although the lack of curveball usage with Cooper as our pitching coach admittedly scares me.

The drastic decline in K rate is what worries me about his future. He’s never going to have the command of Kyle Hendricks, which is why having him showcase a upper echelon ability to miss bats was so important.  I’m not giving up on him though, but he needs to make some changes.

[Chicago White Sox 5,596]

18 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

I think they should convert him to the pen. If he has any options left, let him start next season working in the pen in Charlotte.

I do kind of like that idea and he does have an option left, although not sure if he gets paid a major league salary or not if optioned down to AAA.