Tony La Russa named Manager

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Steroids turned AAAA players into everyday mlb starters. Turned average players into stars, stars into superstars, and superstars into aliens

[Balta1701]

21 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I wasn't making the point that owners getting involved in hiring decisions works or doesn't.  Just saying you or I have opinions and would probably act on them if we owned the team.

 

While we might want to, it’s a path to the cellar more often than not. Good sports owners hire good front office people and although they will do things like set budgets, when it comes to personnel decisions they stay out of the way and let the good front office people they hired do their jobs.

Go look at places like the Cleveland Browns or Phoenix Suns, both have had big expose pieces in the last few years about how ownership was stepping in constantly to overrule their front office, change coaches, and pick different types of players. This is literally how those teams have been stuck in the basement, the owner thinks they know everything, overrules their baseball people, and when it starts backfiring they have no clue how they got there.

If an owner wants to interfere, they are setting up the Cleveland Browns. A good businessperson hires good people, sets a professional tone, and does not push themselves into every single thing happening in their business, that’s why they hired good people.

If Rick Hahn wants to hire AJ Hinch, he’s my GM he can do that, but I expect a couple things. He should conduct a series of interviews with a diverse group of candidates, present to me his decision making and why Hinch came out on top, and how he’s going to deal with the PR issues and questions he’s setting up. If Rick Hahn does that, then he can hire that guy because that’s to the letter what I pay Rick Hahn to do. If he can’t answer those questions, then it’s time to replace the GM because for some reason he’s no longer operating as a professional.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Late to the show but here's my take:

I think it's entirely possible that the White Sox could have executed a thorough, objective search and interview process and still ended up choosing Tony La Russa. I don't think there's any way it wouldn't still be understood as a risky, potentially polarizing move -- but he clearly checks some of their boxes more strongly than any other candidate available. I don't think I would have LIKED the move even then, but I would at least admit that I could see that there was logic behind it, assuming I knew they really did all their homework and considered all options.

However, the fact that I KNOW that such a process did NOT occur -- that the decision was entirely emotional, made by the one guy that was NOT hired to be a baseball expert, and from all accounts left no room at all for any other possibility -- makes all of the risks and cons seem much more likely and substantial, because now I can't even believe that someone did the due diligence necessary to find out. I mean, for example: what if Rick Hahn or KW took the time to get input from the leaders in the clubhouse, like Abreu and TA? I'd have to think that even just the gesture itself of seeking input would cause the players to be more willing to accept such a jarring change, and it would, at the very least, have given the administration an opportunity to sell the move. But the fact that it's being reported that the clubhouse is in disarray suggests that such a thing either could not have occurred, or if it did, was so obviously a ruse that it didn't convince anyone.

I can see why Jerry Reinsdorf would feel the impulse to take the reins in this case -- I'm sure he really does understand that this is his last real shot at another title, and the instinct to be the author of your own fate when everything is on the line is common and not necessarily a bad thing. But you'd think, of all people, Reinsdorf would have learned the value of "hiring people smarter than you" to make the decisions you aren't qualified to make. Except, of course he hasn't -- this is the guy who just rides the SAME group of executives through decades of failure, as if no amount of evidence could convince him that the problem is stemming from the process.

This move certainly might work out, there's even a decent chance -- but if it does, it will be because it was blind luck, not because it was a smart move. And THAT should bother all of us.

Good post except when we get to your last sentence. 1st you say there's a decent chance it works out which I take to mean the Sox already have enough talent that in the years LaRussa manages that the Sox win a Championship ? I actually can't see how that would be blind luck. If the talent is there and if the Hall of Fame is truly reserved for the best ever then LaRussa isn't a terrible choice if given a fair shake by the players.  It's not like the Sox hired an organ grinder monkey to manage the team .Yes I have said both LaRussa and Hinch would've been bad choices and would make the Sox look idiotic but what looks idiotic now ,in the inspection stage , doesn't mean it won't end up being a smart move in the end of the season review .

He's here . He isn't going anywhere (God willing ). So now it's time to give the guy a chance to do what he was hired to do . If I want the players to give the guy a fair shot then I have to do the same.

[NWINFan]

I'd feel better about JR inserting himself in this if it wasn't for his history. There was the Hawk GM decision, the sloppy firing of LaRussa, Terry Bevington, the Ozzie act that got stale and then blew up, and for some reason, the Robin Ventura choice. Maybe this will work out in the end. At this point, we, as fans, have no choice to accept it regardless of whether we like it or not.  I am one that is not crazy about it.

At this point, it will be interesting to see how this off-season goes. I wonder how much the LaRussa hiring will affect off-season moves. I am sure it will affect things in some ways. Hopefully, the team will fill some holes that need to be filled.

For some who keep harping on LaRussa's credentials: There is no arguing with his past results. The question that still remains is he the right man for this job at this time. And that has nothing to do with his being in the Hall of Fame.  We will see how this all works out. Right now, I hope the Sox can get a pitcher or two.

 

[SCCWS]

14 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Well, Nick Capra joins Coop and Ricky at the unemployment line.  HE GONE!

So what is the future for McEwing and Boston?  Very likely McEwing stays because of his already well-developed relationship with LaRussa from back in their St. Louis days together.  
 

Boston is a different story.  He’s a former White Sox, and we know how that plays with Mr. Loyalty Program.  He was also managed by LaRussa at the beginning of his career back from 1884 - 1886, I mean, 1984 - 1986.  So that history in and of itself could make his job safe.  At the same time, you could easily see them just cut bait like they did with both Cooper and Capra, both of whom were with the organization a long time.

So two big questions and ones germane to the logic of the LaRussa hiring: who fills the two current vacancies, and will there be any other vacancies coming?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/10/31/21543553/third-base-coach-nick-capra-wont-be-part-of-tony-la-russas-staff

Not sure that makes a difference. Capra was a 22 year employee and Boston  had 6 as a player and 7 as a coach.  Now maybe JR is more enamored w playing time. But Hahn has survived( so far..............).

[SCCWS]

14 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Late to the show but here's my take:

I think it's entirely possible that the White Sox could have executed a thorough, objective search and interview process and still ended up choosing Tony La Russa. I don't think there's any way it wouldn't still be understood as a risky, potentially polarizing move -- but he clearly checks some of their boxes more strongly than any other candidate available. I don't think I would have LIKED the move even then, but I would at least admit that I could see that there was logic behind it, assuming I knew they really did all their homework and considered all options.

However, the fact that I KNOW that such a process did NOT occur -- that the decision was entirely emotional, made by the one guy that was NOT hired to be a baseball expert, and from all accounts left no room at all for any other possibility -- makes all of the risks and cons seem much more likely and substantial, because now I can't even believe that someone did the due diligence necessary to find out. I mean, for example: what if Rick Hahn or KW took the time to get input from the leaders in the clubhouse, like Abreu and TA? I'd have to think that even just the gesture itself of seeking input would cause the players to be more willing to accept such a jarring change, and it would, at the very least, have given the administration an opportunity to sell the move. But the fact that it's being reported that the clubhouse is in disarray suggests that such a thing either could not have occurred, or if it did, was so obviously a ruse that it didn't convince anyone.

I can see why Jerry Reinsdorf would feel the impulse to take the reins in this case -- I'm sure he really does understand that this is his last real shot at another title, and the instinct to be the author of your own fate when everything is on the line is common and not necessarily a bad thing. But you'd think, of all people, Reinsdorf would have learned the value of "hiring people smarter than you" to make the decisions you aren't qualified to make. Except, of course he hasn't -- this is the guy who just rides the SAME group of executives through decades of failure, as if no amount of evidence could convince him that the problem is stemming from the process.

This move certainly might work out, there's even a decent chance -- but if it does, it will be because it was blind luck, not because it was a smart move. And THAT should bother all of us.

I disagree unless the White Sox eliminated Hinch/Cora as candidates because of their ban.  If there was a ban on communication until their suspensions were up, JR and staff could not have had a thorough search if they never talked to Hinch.  We know reports said Detroit immediately contacted Hinch once his suspension ended.  So either Hinch was not a candidate or the search was not thorough. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

12 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Not sure that makes a difference. Capra was a 22 year employee and Boston  had 6 as a player and 7 as a coach.  Now maybe JR is more enamored w playing time. But Hahn has survived( so far..............).

Pretty sure Boston is on the Jerry Reinsdorf lifetime employment plan. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Renteria must have someone in mind already for the 3B coach job as no one else other than Capra has been let go yet.

[flavum]

I like the White Sox roster page where they have a B&W picture of La Russa where he’s about 18 yrs old. Is that a dig? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Renteria must have someone in mind already for the 3B coach job as no one else other than Capra has been let go yet.

Renteria ?

[Dick Allen]

I bet  Jose Oquendo is coaching 3b.

[Dick Allen]

You have to feel bad for Nick Capra. He loses his job because RR can't run a bullpen., or make out a line up. And on top of that, RR didn't hire him. Unlike TLR, RR didn't select his coaches.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Dick Allen

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Pretty sure Boston is on the Jerry Reinsdorf lifetime employment plan. 

Rapist.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Renteria ?

Sorry, meant La Russa.

[TaylorStSox]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Steroids turned AAAA players into everyday mlb starters. Turned average players into stars, stars into superstars, and superstars into aliens

You'd have a point if only one team was doing steroids. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

I bet  Jose Oquendo is coaching 3b.

I know Harold mentioned him as well, but he would make a ton of sense for us.

[fathom]

Fegan with a fantastic article today about Tony’s relationship with Maxwell and Sanders.  Hopefully it makes some fans and/or players a little more receptive of the hire.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

Fegan with a fantastic article today about Tony’s relationship with Maxwell and Sanders.  Hopefully it makes some fans and/or players a little more receptive of the hire.

We can keep getting lectures about what the fans should be thinking,  but at the end of the day it only really matters what the players think, and so far there has been nothing to indicate that this organization even cares what they think.  If this go sideways, Jerry has no one to blame but himself. 

[Eminor3rd]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Good post except when we get to your last sentence. 1st you say there's a decent chance it works out which I take to mean the Sox already have enough talent that in the years LaRussa manages that the Sox win a Championship ? I actually can't see how that would be blind luck. If the talent is there and if the Hall of Fame is truly reserved for the best ever then LaRussa isn't a terrible choice if given a fair shake by the players.  It's not like the Sox hired an organ grinder monkey to manage the team .Yes I have said both LaRussa and Hinch would've been bad choices and would make the Sox look idiotic but what looks idiotic now ,in the inspection stage , doesn't mean it won't end up being a smart move in the end of the season review .

He's here . He isn't going anywhere (God willing ). So now it's time to give the guy a chance to do what he was hired to do . If I want the players to give the guy a fair shot then I have to do the same.

What I meant by that was that he might be exactly what the Sox need (whether or not they have enough talent), but it will have been achieved by essentially a guess (or JR's emotions or whatever), instead of by a process designed to define and find what the Sox need. So we're relying on luck for it to work out.

[Eminor3rd]

9 hours ago, SCCWS said:

I disagree unless the White Sox eliminated Hinch/Cora as candidates because of their ban.  If there was a ban on communication until their suspensions were up, JR and staff could not have had a thorough search if they never talked to Hinch.  We know reports said Detroit immediately contacted Hinch once his suspension ended.  So either Hinch was not a candidate or the search was not thorough. 

That is not what I was arguing at all, I must not have been clear. I was/am operating on the assumption that we all already know it was NOT thorough -- by "could" I meant that they hypothetically could have done a thorough search and ended with TLR. I was trying to make the point that it is not guaranteed that he is a terrible choice; he DOES have virtues, he just also has more baggage and risks than nearly anyone else to go along with it.

[Balta1701]

At this point, Passans article has now had space on ESPN.com and on their app main pages for 3 days, so readership and interest in that article must be pretty big. I can’t read them, but the Tribune is running articles saying “deal with it” because that’s all they can do. There seems to have been, aside from LaRussa’s sincerely held comments about being sincere, zero effort at damage control. They haven’t given the fans anything. They haven’t made any of the players available for an interview. They haven’t provided quotes from any of the players. They didn’t bother to track down any of LaRussa’s former players to give a quote praising him on any of the things we’d have called baggage. They didn’t announce any of his staff or anything neW that the fans could get excited about. Notably, when the Tigers hired Hinch, they did a couple of these - gave a positive story about his interview for the press (we called him 30 minutes after the World Series!) and they had a comment from a former player named Justin Verlander, who has some connection to Detroit.

The White Sox did none of the basic PR efforts other than a press conference where LaRussa got publicly called on his bullsh*t by basically every major baseball writer and angry fans literally put them as the top trending story on Twitter after they did it. So, either the white Sox did not anticipate an intensely angry reaction from their fan base (and players and league) to this, or they did and didn’t care if they look bad to the rest of the league and country.

I'm not sure which would be worse. 

[Jerksticks]

I hope this works out.  No need to get prissy about it- just gotta play wait & see. 

[ron883]

I'm sure this got posted... But I'll do it anyway.

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/vacuum-tony-la-russa-loves-arizonas-sb-1070/

"In 2010, Arizona governor Jan Brewer signed a law that required police officers to investigate the immigration status of anyone they interact with “where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States.” It also restricted local governments from enforcing federal immigration law to anything less than its fullest extent. When put into action, that law, SB 1070, effectively gave police the power to stop anyone who looked Latin American and demand to see their papers. This law was so unpopular nationally that it sparked threats of an economic boycott of Arizona, including from several MLB players and then–White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, who said they wouldn’t attend the 2011 All-Star Game if it were held in Phoenix. La Russa publicly endorsed the law. Later in 2010, La Russa appeared at Glenn Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally in Washington, where he presented Pujols with an award."

[South Side Hit Men]

6 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

The White Sox did none of the basic PR efforts other than a press conference where LaRussa got publicly called on his bullsh*t by basically every major baseball writer and angry fans literally put them as the top trending story on Twitter after they did it. So, either the white Sox did not anticipate an intensely angry reaction from their fan base (and players and league) to this, or they did and didn’t care if they look bad to the rest of the league and country.

I'm not sure which would be worse. 

Based on how this all went down, there's a possibility Jerry reached out to Tony in September, though publicly they are going to say nothing transpired until after they dismissed Renteria. Basing this on the harshness of Guillen, Thomas and Stone's comments during the final week of the season and playoffs. I don't recall even Harry and Jimmy ever being as critical of a manager. I don't expect a single word of public criticism from the trio toward LaRussa, regardless of what transpires during his tenure, unless the Chairman issues another smoke signal.

The White Sox had at minimum 1-2 weeks plus to come up with better spin, and more importantly, reach out to key players like Tim Anderson, Jose Abreu, Lucas Giolito and allow conversations with Tony, and be available for conversations with Rick and Kenny, before the roll-out. There was no rush to announce this, as there was the single legitimate candidate with no interest in anyone else.

I don't recall a Front Office managerial/coach hire announcement from any team that was so unenthusiastic. Hahn sounded like a close relative died. Then you have Tony having to deny being racist, never a good sign. Perhaps there will be player outreach this week. Jerry may not care, but I imagine Kenny and Rick care, since they invested years to get to this point, and based on reports there is a high level of internal strife across the entire organization over this hire.

Also, we don't necessarily know whether Kenny and or Rick had any say on either side of this equation (Renteria or LaRussa). Posts here addressed Hahn having his hands tied. However, I haven't read posts addressing Kenny Williams. Kenny has been a prominent proponent and activist in terms of civil rights and addressing racism over the years, including an extensive interview this year after the June protests. It had to be a hard pill to swallow for Kenny to bring in Tony LaRussa, especially after all that transpired this year.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/white-sox-executive-ken-williams-opens-about-personal-history-facing-racism

 

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I'm not sure what makes anyone think reinsdorf gives a shit about the fans or anyone else, much less at 85 years old

Edited November 2, 2020 by SleepyWhiteSox