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Tony La Russa named Manager

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8 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I think you VASTLY underestimate what it takes to be a major league manager, much less one who has led his team to more than 2,700 victories, 12 division titles, 6 pennants, and 3 World Series crowns, and the fact that you THINK that it's easy just affirms your ignorance.  And it has nothing to do with playing poker. 

Oh, and I'm not surprised this point went right over your head.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Who said it's easy? it's certainly an easier job than any career that requires advanced education.

What do you think the difference is between being a D1 baseball coach and a MLB coach; just curious to your thoughts. I would argue being a D1 coach may even be harder, and takes more work, but managing personalities is a lot easier than pro-ball.

The mistake you make constantly is you make vast assumptions about strangers you are talking to; what they've done with their lives, who they've helped, how high of a level they played baseball at and on and on.

Okay, so inform us what you know. What level of baseball playing and/or coaching have you achieved?

BTW - Tony LaRussa has a Doctorate. Lawyer managers in baseball have had a very good track record of success. I happen to be a lawyer too. It is very good analytical training. 

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2 minutes ago, VAfan said:

But I'm not sitting here opining that Tony LaRussa doesn't know how to manage -- absurd -- doesn't know how to relate to players -- absurd -- doesn't respect BLM -- proven wrong -- doesn't understand analytics -- absurd. 

The arguments against LaRussa are overblown and based in ignorance, when the guy has a track record that is worthy of respect.

In what field do you work? Who is the top person in that field? Do you think they are a hack who shouldn't be working in that field any longer? The arguments that Tony LaRussa can't manage any longer are being made by neophytes who have no clue.

What I do know is that Tony LaRussa has had the most accomplished career of any big league manager in the last 50 years. That's a simple fact. Based on that, I find the deluge of criticism from Sox fans to be premature at the very least. As I said above, if he fails, then let it rip. But give the guy a chance. You might learn something. 

Man, we have different definitions of proven. Maybe you should go tell Tim that it's been proven wrong, because he has been extremely petty since the hiring of La Russa. Go look at the tweets Tim has liked since the hiring was announced; multiple White Sox tweets but for the announcement of Tony's hiring and the retweeting of his interview.

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1 minute ago, VAfan said:

Okay, so inform us what you know. What level of baseball playing and/or coaching have you achieved?

BTW - Tony LaRussa has a Doctorate. Lawyer managers in baseball have had a very good track record of success. I happen to be a lawyer too. It is very good analytical training. 

I don't need to inform you of anything; you already know everything.

And you dodged my question; what do you think is a more difficult job, being a D1 baseball coach or a MLB manager?

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5 minutes ago, VAfan said:

But I'm not sitting here opining that Tony LaRussa doesn't know how to manage -- absurd -- doesn't know how to relate to players -- absurd -- doesn't respect BLM -- proven wrong -- doesn't understand analytics -- absurd. 

The arguments against LaRussa are overblown and based in ignorance, when the guy has a track record that is worthy of respect.

In what field do you work? Who is the top person in that field? Do you think they are a hack who shouldn't be working in that field any longer? The arguments that Tony LaRussa can't manage any longer are being made by neophytes who have no clue.

What I do know is that Tony LaRussa has had the most accomplished career of any big league manager in the last 50 years. That's a simple fact. Based on that, I find the deluge of criticism from Sox fans to be premature at the very least. As I said above, if he fails, then let it rip. But give the guy a chance. You might learn something. 

You are opining that the opposite of all of them.  Which means you are making arguments despite your opinion that you have no authority to do so.  The problem is that every single one of your arguments are contradicted by Tony's own words, or the words of people who have played for him.

 

Also if a person in my field took a decade off of doing my job, they would no longer understand the federal rule set, which is kind of the point of SEC compliance, and proves my point.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Oh, and I'm not surprised this point went right over your head.

It didn't go "over my head."  I don't think you are capable of making an argument that I can't understand. 

There is no online school for major league baseball managing. You might learn how to play poker online, but you can't learn how to manage a baseball team that way. And to flip your example, Tony LaRussa has managed more major league games than all but 2 other people who have ever lived. When you've managed 1, let us know. 

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Man, we have different definitions of proven. Maybe you should go tell Tim that it's been proven wrong, because he has been extremely petty since the hiring of La Russa. Go look at the tweets Tim has liked since the hiring was announced; multiple White Sox tweets but for the announcement of Tony's hiring and the retweeting of his interview.

Read Fegan's article at the Athletic about how Tony reached out to Bruce Maxwell. How many other major league managers have done that? 

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Just now, VAfan said:

Read Fegan's article at the Athletic about how Tony reached out to Bruce Maxwell. How many other major league managers have done that? 

Yet he hasn't reached out to his own team yet.  How many managers would have done (or more accurately NOT DONE) that?

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3 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Read Fegan's article at the Athletic about how Tony reached out to Bruce Maxwell. How many other major league managers have done that? 

Bruce Maxwells agent was Tony La Russa's friend.

I think it was nice what Tony did - do not get me wrong - but this "went out of his way to help Maxwell" stuff is getting to be too much. He helped Stewart - who he has always loved - which in turn was very helpful to Maxwell.

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6 minutes ago, VAfan said:

It didn't go "over my head."  I don't think you are capable of making an argument that I can't understand. 

There is no online school for major league baseball managing. You might learn how to play poker online, but you can't learn how to manage a baseball team that way. And to flip your example, Tony LaRussa has managed more major league games than all but 2 other people who have ever lived. When you've managed 1, let us know. 

Yeah, let me know how that works for you.

You think being a MLB manager is like being a nuclear physicist. It's quite funny.

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34 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Well shit, I must have been one of the luckiest people alive between 21-24 (before the government made moving money impossible) lol.

I still miss playing; made more money, although with a bit more stress and less consistency, and I worked whenever I wanted - although I tell people my days were significantly longer than my work day today, because if I got deep in big MTT's, I was playing from noon to 2 or 3 am.

I'm a deep stack type of player myself so I live for those grinds but they do take a lot out of you, especially if you don't make the bubble.

I'm glad someone besides me is making poker analogies here because they are extremely apt for anything statistical, among other things.

Edited by RagahRagah
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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You are opining that the opposite of all of them.  Which means you are making arguments despite your opinion that you have no authority to do so.  The problem is that every single one of your arguments are contradicted by Tony's own words, or the words of people who have played for him.

 

Also if a person in my field took a decade off of doing my job, they would no longer understand the federal rule set, which is kind of the point of SEC compliance, and proves my point.

Tony didn't take a decade off from baseball. He's never left being part of the game. He's spent the last 10 years gaining a different perspective on it. 

And, for the last time ..... I'm saying Tony LaRussa's track record should earn him some respect.  That's what I'm relying on.  

I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know more than LaRussa about what it will take to manage the White Sox. I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know right now that this will be a failure, when he doesn't even have a full coaching staff yet. 

I'm also not claiming that it will work magnificently. I've said that throughout. No one knows. Just like no one would know that about any hire the Sox might have made. 

Just give the guy a break. If it turns out badly, then by all means be critical. 

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3 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Tony didn't take a decade off from baseball. He's never left being part of the game. He's spent the last 10 years gaining a different perspective on it. 

And, for the last time ..... I'm saying Tony LaRussa's track record should earn him some respect.  That's what I'm relying on.  

I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know more than LaRussa about what it will take to manage the White Sox. I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know right now that this will be a failure, when he doesn't even have a full coaching staff yet. 

I'm also not claiming that it will work magnificently. I've said that throughout. No one knows. Just like no one would know that about any hire the Sox might have made. 

Just give the guy a break. If it turns out badly, then by all means be critical. 

Waiting until after things fall apart to be critical is part of the reason we are always in masses like this.

Again, some of you guys never stop getting fooled by this FO. Which is silly because then you get to basically wait until the broken clock is right for the first time in a day and get excited because of it and fail to realize the clock is broken. 

Edited by RagahRagah

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1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Think back to 25 year old you.  If someone had come in with all of the titles and accolades in the world, but crapped on you personally and everything you believed in, and didn't spend anytime to act like they cared what you thought, would you respect them?  Especially with their entire public history contradicting their most recent public statements, especially if you had been led to believe that the person was originally supposed to be someone who you did have some excitement about having as a leader?

People want a level of respect before they give respect.  I don't buy that anyone is just going to blindly accept one part of the resume, but not the rest.

25 year old me worked for many men and women who held political and social beliefs that I disagreed with.  And although they never came out and said it, I assume they thought my views were the result of being an inexperienced naive 25 year old dumbass.  But I learned a tremendous amount about my career by working with and observing them.

50 year old me still has some of the beliefs that 25 year old me held, but not all of them.  In fact, experience has taught me that some of the beliefs held by my elders were actually informed by their experience and shockingly 25 year old me was wrong.

LaRussa's biggest challenge won't be the rift between his beliefs and his players' beliefs.  It will be preventing a rift between the players who believe that social justice causes should be addressed on the field and those who believe their job is to play baseball and address social issues on their own time.  The 26 men on his roster don't hold the same beliefs.  But they, and the coaching staff, need to maintain an atmosphere of respect for each others opinions on these matters.  Every team will face this challenge,\ now that MLB has chosen to allow political protests as part of the game itself.

MLB players have avoided conflict so far.  But what happens when a player appears in a picture with "F*** 12", or writes "F12" in the dirt, or is involved in a peaceful protest that evolves into one that causes injury, property damage or death?

Edited by ThirdGen

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5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yeah, let me know how that works for you.

You think being a MLB manager is like being a nuclear physicist. It's quite funny.

Did I say that? 

I will say that there aren't many major league managers in the world. There are fewer successful ones. There are fewer who've won division titles, fewer still who've won pennants, fewer still who've won World Series. Only 3 in history who have managed 5,000 games, only one of whom did so in the integrated era of baseball. 

So, among the universe of major league managers, Tony LaRussa is by all measures at or very near the top. 

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3 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Tony didn't take a decade off from baseball. He's never left being part of the game. He's spent the last 10 years gaining a different perspective on it. 

And, for the last time ..... I'm saying Tony LaRussa's track record should earn him some respect.  That's what I'm relying on.  

I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know more than LaRussa about what it will take to manage the White Sox. I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know right now that this will be a failure, when he doesn't even have a full coaching staff yet. 

I'm also not claiming that it will work magnificently. I've said that throughout. No one knows. Just like no one would know that about any hire the Sox might have made. 

Just give the guy a break. If it turns out badly, then by all means be critical. 

Again, why do you participate in forum discussions about baseball with a bunch of people who you think should always defer to authority on topics involving baseball?

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Okay, it's been fun debating. Going to leave this topic.

If you haven't voted, please do so today. 

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19 minutes ago, VAfan said:

Tony didn't take a decade off from baseball. He's never left being part of the game. He's spent the last 10 years gaining a different perspective on it. 

And, for the last time ..... I'm saying Tony LaRussa's track record should earn him some respect.  That's what I'm relying on.  

I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know more than LaRussa about what it will take to manage the White Sox. I'm not pretending, like his critics, to know right now that this will be a failure, when he doesn't even have a full coaching staff yet. 

I'm also not claiming that it will work magnificently. I've said that throughout. No one knows. Just like no one would know that about any hire the Sox might have made. 

Just give the guy a break. If it turns out badly, then by all means be critical. 

Its a nice goalpost move, but he didn't take a decade off of baseball, he took a decade off of managing.  He hasn't done the job for 10 years now.  "a different perspective" isn't doing the job.  The job has changed a TON during that time.

While you claim his track record should earn "respect", you ignore everything that doesn't fit that mantra.  There is a lot about his record that earns him fear and trepidation.

And yes you are pretending to know what it will take to manager the White Sox, by repeatedly excusing all of the problems in his history, and repeatedly pointing to his track record as an absolution that all of those things will be over come by it.

This has already gone badly.  The White Sox are the laughing stock of baseball with this hire, free agents are already reacting badly, and his own players are being ignored.  This isn't a hindsight situation.  When there are this many red flags, it is more than acceptable to be critical in the moment.

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11 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Some one asked LaRussa during the hiring press conference whether he spoke to Tim Anderson, and he stated he did not talk to any players. 

In other news, MLB announced this evening Rick Renteria is a finalist for AL Manager of the Year.

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Robert won't win it. Renteria might win it. Abreu should win it.

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12 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

25 year old me worked for many men and women who held political and social beliefs that I disagreed with.  And although they never came out and said it, I assume they thought my views were the result of being an inexperienced naive 25 year old dumbass.  But I learned a tremendous amount about my career by working with and observing them.

50 year old me still has some of the beliefs that 25 year old me held, but not all of them.  In fact, experience has taught me that some of the beliefs held by my elders were actually informed by their experience and shockingly 25 year old me was wrong.

LaRussa's biggest challenge won't be the rift between his beliefs and his players' beliefs.  It will be preventing a rift between the players who believe that social justice causes should be addressed on the field and those who believe their job is to play baseball and address social issues on their own time.  The 26 men on his roster don't hold the same beliefs.  But they, and the coaching staff, need to maintain an atmosphere of respect for each others opinions on these matters.  Every team will face this challenge,\ now that MLB has chosen to allow political protests as part of the game itself.

MLB players have avoided conflict so far.  But what happens when a player appears in a picture with "F*** 12", or writes "F12" in the dirt, or is involved in a peaceful protest that evolves into one that causes injury, property damage or death?

Sports have ALWAYS involved politics.  Go back generations to find people like Jackie Robinson in baseball, Ali in boxing, the Olympics all of the way back to Hitler in '36 and the black power salutes of '68.  Social justice is interwoven in the very fabric of sports.  Acting like this is a new thing is woefully ignoring history, at best.

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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sports have ALWAYS involved politics.  Go back generations to find people like Jackie Robinson in baseball, Ali in boxing, the Olympics all of the way back to Hitler in '36 and the black power salutes of '68.  Social justice is interwoven in the very fabric of sports.  Acting like this is a new thing is woefully ignoring history, at best.

Yes, but the people today who hate protests like to pretend like they were fans of Malcolm, MLK, Ali, Jackie back in the day.... when in reality, they were the same people back in the day that shouted down MLK, Malcolm and Jackie's mission.

Nothing cracks me up more than when people say.... "Black people just need a leader like MLK" when being critical of Kaep. Pretending as if MLK wasn't murdered by white people for his beliefs and protesting.

Revisionist history is always entertaining to view from the sideline. I support anyone speaking out against oppression and I support all matters in which they do it; even those that make me uncomfortable. That's what support is.

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sports have ALWAYS involved politics.  Go back generations to find people like Jackie Robinson in baseball, Ali in boxing, the Olympics all of the way back to Hitler in '36 and the black power salutes of '68.  Social justice is interwoven in the very fabric of sports.  Acting like this is a new thing is woefully ignoring history, at best.

None of those examples involve teams basically living together and playing together for nine months out of the year, with the exception of Robinson.  Jackie Robinson was not involved in political protests during the games, he was specifically selected for his ability to avoid those conflicts.  What is happening on teams across sports currently is completely unprecedented in its scope.  At some point we will see a clubhouse self destruct as it is impossible to construct a team where every player coach and manager hold compatible political beliefs.  Hopefully it is not the Sox.  If some players truly are ignoring TLR track record as a manager because he is conservative it is very concerning, because I suspect some Sox players are closer to LaRussa in beliefs than Anderson.

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1 minute ago, ThirdGen said:

None of those examples involve teams basically living together and playing together for nine months out of the year, with the exception of Robinson.  Jackie Robinson was not involved in political protests during the games, he was specifically selected for his ability to avoid those conflicts.  What is happening on teams across sports currently is completely unprecedented in its scope.  At some point we will see a clubhouse self destruct as it is impossible to construct a team where every player coach and manager hold compatible political beliefs.  Hopefully it is not the Sox.  If some players truly are ignoring TLR track record as a manager because he is conservative it is very concerning, because I suspect some Sox players are closer to LaRussa in beliefs than Anderson.

Its funny that you mention a clubhouse destructing, because bringing a powderkeg like LaRussa who has no problem making his beliefs public and has publicly said he would taken actions against players who contradict his beliefs, would be the top person is baseball to cause the destruction of a clubhouse IMO.

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7 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

None of those examples involve teams basically living together and playing together for nine months out of the year, with the exception of Robinson.  Jackie Robinson was not involved in political protests during the games, he was specifically selected for his ability to avoid those conflicts.  What is happening on teams across sports currently is completely unprecedented in its scope.  At some point we will see a clubhouse self destruct as it is impossible to construct a team where every player coach and manager hold compatible political beliefs.  Hopefully it is not the Sox.  If some players truly are ignoring TLR track record as a manager because he is conservative it is very concerning, because I suspect some Sox players are closer to LaRussa in beliefs than Anderson.

What in gods name....

Jackie Robinson playing in MLB was a protest.

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