chw42 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rowand44 said: This is just so difficult to say. They were up a whole 1-0 when that move was made and Snell wasn't going 9. Cash's decision making there was clearly wrong but who knows what would have happened if he kept with Snell. It would have helped if they had an offense outside of Arozarena. It's crazy that he basically singlehandedly got the Rays enough offense to get as far as they did. Edited October 28, 2020 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, bmags said: last 5 world series managers Yes if analytics driven, no if not 2020 Roberts - Yes Cash - Yes 2019 Martinez - Yes Hinch - Yes 2018 Cora - Yes Roberts - Yes 2017 Hinch - Yes Roberts - Yes 2016 Maddon - Yes Francona - Yes Sure is weird how guys that understand baseball so well keep getting shut out 🤷♂️ Interesting that the best teams coming into the year talent wise make it to the World Series. Do you have info about managers that are analytically driven that did not make the World Series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 minute ago, chw42 said: It would have helped if they had an offense outside of Arozarena. It's crazy that he basically singlehandedly got the Rays enough offense to get as far as they did. It's crazy to think the sox have 4-5 guys in their lineup that have that potential ability also. He was so fun to watch all postseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 IT IS SO HAPPENING LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, chw42 said: Since when did Lance Briggs become a baseball commentator? Your telling me. His tweet was the one that started all of this today. Edited October 28, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Interesting that the best teams coming into the year talent wise make it to the World Series. Do you have info about managers that are analytically driven that did not make the World Series? I will caveat - Dave Roberts makes decisions that go against the pure analytics. It is one of the things people rip on him for from time to time. That said - he is a pro analytics guy. Its just a matter that he isn't a trained robot that only does the analytics. I also don't think the Rays manager always goes with it too. They appreciate analytics for what they are and are very progressive in their use of the tool to help make them better. TLR was always one of the most progressive mgr's in the game in the past as well and had tons of teams that were extremely fun to watch and full of characters (Oakland A's is probably best example...Henderson & Canseco - I mean those are two of the most flashy guys I can remember). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 25 minutes ago, bmags said: I don't know, we can't script games exactly but I still think Dodgers eventually get to Snell while I just don't see rays scraping enough offense. But yeah - don't pull snell. The analytics guys demand it so they get it. Moves based on analytics. It's so strange that in a game with outdated unwritten rules, analytics wins out over another unwritten rule: Never take out a dominant starter who has thrown 80 pitches. My gosh how DUMB. Mookie Betts even said the Dodgers had a "sigh of relief" after that analytical move was made. In 2005 Ozzie Guillen left all his starters in and we had the time of our lives. Oh wait ... that was 15 years ago; those were ancient times, can't compare. Hogwash. The stat lovers get what they deserve sometimes: Statistical moves that BOMB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Orlando said: IT IS SO HAPPENING LOL The key part of the sentence in the tweet is “if Tony La Russa is hired” though. Most people are already assuming that he is hired. 🤔 Edited October 28, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Interesting that the best teams coming into the year talent wise make it to the World Series. Do you have info about managers that are analytically driven that did not make the World Series? Yes it is weird that the losing organizations hire them isn't it. Must be a total coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I don't get this - TLR isn't anti analytics and he isn't anti-excitement. None of those are routed in truth. Now he is going to mix what a player is looking like that specific day with the analytics. The combination of the two. Maybe the analytics say pull Snell because of X, but maybe Tony says, look at his stuff today, it is plus plus, that was just a mistake an aberration and thus I'm going to stick with the guy who is looking unbelievable tonight. The above is not being anti-analytics, it is just taking and leveraging other data points into the overall consideration. Call it what you will, but I don't think it is a bad idea. The opposite would be said of a situation where the analytics say keep going, but you are watching a guy just hit into consistent hard hit out after hard hit out. Analytics say don't pull him - but mgr says nope, you are done, I can see you don't have it today, appreciate your grit to grind this out, but now we are going in another direction. Honestly this just reads like you are putting your own idea in La Russa's mouth, because his on record comments show that in game it is not a combination of the two, even if he may be using it for lineups or development outside it. If he says this is how he'll manage it's not really controversial, that is how a lot of those managers say they manage, even the hinch's etc. That their knowledge of the players fatigue, form, etc are as important as analytics in any scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 18 minutes ago, Rowand44 said: This is just so difficult to say. They were up a whole 1-0 when that move was made and Snell wasn't going 9. Cash's decision making there was clearly wrong but who knows what would have happened if he kept with Snell. I want to clarify this; I don't think Cash lost the game. Again, players didn't score runs and etc and the onus is on them. I do think that Snell shuts the door last night; I just hadn't seen a guy that dominant in a really long time. That doesn't mean he would remain that way, but there's a reason Mookie was smiling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I don't get this - TLR isn't anti analytics and he isn't anti-excitement. None of those are routed in truth. Now he is going to mix what a player is looking like that specific day with the analytics. The combination of the two. Maybe the analytics say pull Snell because of X, but maybe Tony says, look at his stuff today, it is plus plus, that was just a mistake an aberration and thus I'm going to stick with the guy who is looking unbelievable tonight. The above is not being anti-analytics, it is just taking and leveraging other data points into the overall consideration. Call it what you will, but I don't think it is a bad idea. The opposite would be said of a situation where the analytics say keep going, but you are watching a guy just hit into consistent hard hit out after hard hit out. Analytics say don't pull him - but mgr says nope, you are done, I can see you don't have it today, appreciate your grit to grind this out, but now we are going in another direction. He has literally been quoted saying analytics have no place in a dugout once the games start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Orlando said: IT IS SO HAPPENING LOL I don't even understand this. I know Dave was laid off recently, but if he's not on the staff, is this that big of a deal that Duncan is on the sox? He was ... already on the sox for the last few years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 22 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I don't get this - TLR isn't anti analytics and he isn't anti-excitement. None of those are routed in truth. Now he is going to mix what a player is looking like that specific day with the analytics. The combination of the two. Maybe the analytics say pull Snell because of X, but maybe Tony says, look at his stuff today, it is plus plus, that was just a mistake an aberration and thus I'm going to stick with the guy who is looking unbelievable tonight. The above is not being anti-analytics, it is just taking and leveraging other data points into the overall consideration. Call it what you will, but I don't think it is a bad idea. The opposite would be said of a situation where the analytics say keep going, but you are watching a guy just hit into consistent hard hit out after hard hit out. Analytics say don't pull him - but mgr says nope, you are done, I can see you don't have it today, appreciate your grit to grind this out, but now we are going in another direction. I wasn't actually talking about Tony's quote in my post. I was just talking about overall war people have already started to wage on analytics after last night. It's very annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Orlando said: IT IS SO HAPPENING LOL Oh great, Dave Duncan. This is such a Bruce tweet; don't be shocked if Dave Duncan is involved... he won't be a coach. So LaRussa is going to be brought in and start making non-coaching personnel moves? Jesus... Arizona 2.0 here we come. Vaughn and Madrigal got their bags packed and are ready to be shipped out for some pitcher who will be out of baseball in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Every hour that ticks down towards the end of the day with no leaks or announcements about TLR being named as manager has me wondering about LB’s tweet. Edited October 28, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Why do people at Soxtalk think Lance Briggs would have the slightest idea about who the Sox were hiring as manager lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox1917 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Last nights rays game was exhibit #1 for why larussa would be a good hire. Listen to the nerds, but dont be beholden to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maloney.adam Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) I’m surprised that Bob Nightengale hasn’t picked up on any of this today or am I missing something? Edited October 28, 2020 by maloney.adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Go to bed Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, ChiSox1917 said: Last nights rays game was exhibit #1 for why larussa would be a good hire. Listen to the nerds, but dont be beholden to them and your posts are a great reminder why one shouldn't listen to old people and their big guts. 2 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesterday333 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Gotta love people using one situation in one game to try and make their point while ignoring the fact that the rays were in the WS because of analytics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, yesterday333 said: Gotta love people using one situation in one game to try and make their point while ignoring the fact that the rays were in the WS because of analytics. This is actually the best part to me; they don't even realize that they're telling on themselves when they post that ignorant nonsense. Rays make World Series with payroll 1/4 of Dodgers. Rays proceed to lose to said team... meatheads come out in droves to blast the idiotic analytics people who couldn't beat the Dodgers while spending 25% as much money. I found it more concerning that Cash said he'd do it again; like bro, you're supposed to learn from your mistakes. Let's work on not planning games at 2pm and never adjusting. That's not what analytics says to do. Edited October 28, 2020 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, greg775 said: The analytics guys demand it so they get it. Moves based on analytics. It's so strange that in a game with outdated unwritten rules, analytics wins out over another unwritten rule: Never take out a dominant starter who has thrown 80 pitches. My gosh how DUMB. Mookie Betts even said the Dodgers had a "sigh of relief" after that analytical move was made. In 2005 Ozzie Guillen left all his starters in and we had the time of our lives. Oh wait ... that was 15 years ago; those were ancient times, can't compare. Hogwash. The stat lovers get what they deserve sometimes: Statistical moves that BOMB. This is petty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Who are the "nerds" who loved the Snell move? Haven't seen any. Seen many who thought it was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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