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Tony La Russa

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3 hours ago, joesaiditstrue said:

personally I find it hard to believe that the team that offers the best contract won't sign player X, Y, or Z regardless of who the coaching staff has on it

Sure, your argument is the equivalent of, "a Porsche 911 will beat a human being in the 1/4 mile." We all already know this to be true.

What if offers are roughly equal from competing teams, as they often are? Would having a known cheat help in recruiting FAs? As we've seen in the Wheeler pursuit, there often are non-monetary reasons for why a player picks one team over another, even with one offer being better (SOX) than another (Mets).

 

Players won't simply come out and tell the world which managers they hate, for a variety of reasons. But there is a long list of players that have verbalized their hatred of what Houston did; hiring the manager who was either too weak, too stupid, or complicit in the cheating simply can't help in recruiting. 

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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23 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Sure, your argument is the equivalent of, "a Porsche 911 will beat a human being in the 1/4 mile." We all already know this to be true.

What if offers are roughly equal from competing teams, as they often are? Would having a known cheat help in recruiting FAs? As we've seen in the Wheeler pursuit, there often are non-monetary reasons for why a player picks one team over another, even with one offer being better (SOX) than another (Mets).

 

Players won't simply come out and tell the world which managers they hate, for a variety of reasons. But there is a long list of players that have verbalized their hatred of what Houston did; hiring the manager who was either too weak, too stupid, or complicit in the cheating simply can't help in recruiting. 

I don't really think it's that drastic to be honest.  Belicheck cheated and got caught multiple times and players never had problems going to New England to play because they had a good team and a good chance to win.   
 

Both Stroman and Bauer have tweeted that they will play for whoever, they don't have preference and have not ruled out any team.

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On 10/20/2020 at 10:00 AM, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

The longer this drags on, the less likely I feel La Russa is going to be the one to get the job. I feel like he would’ve been hired already if he was the guy. I think the rumors surrounding him were just a way to get people more accepting of Hinch’s baggage. They’re probably just stalling until the World Series is over so they can officially “interview” Hinch and make him the manager.

From your lips....

I'd rather Mgr Morse Code than Mgr Juice.

I also like the idea of Brantley and Springer following him to Chicago.

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7 hours ago, GradMc said:

You are highly correct, sir.

 

Why are you guys so worried about age? Tony can speak Spanish which is pivotal and he's in the Hall of Fame. Nothing wrong with having a grumpy manager once in a while. I still say it's fate. He wins 2 WS with the Sox then bows out and all is right in the world. He never should have been fired by Hawk.

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Yea he's supposedly fluent in Spanish, which is a pretty big point in his favor.  That said, he's not my preferred choice.  I'd prefer Jirsch as it would mean the Sox are basically doing what TB does and employ a manager that is good with the guys and will execute the analytics department's strategy in game and with the lineups.  Cash took over when he was 37, still young enough to be "one of the guys".  Same thing with Jirsch.

edit: shit he's only 30.  Might be a bit young still.  Maybe they appoint La Russa the manager with the idea of grooming Jirsch into the job within a couple years.  I'd be alright with that plan.

Edited by chitownsportsfan
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2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea he's supposedly fluent in Spanish, which is a pretty big point in his favor.  That said, he's not my preferred choice.  I'd prefer Jirsch as it would mean the Sox are basically doing what TB does and employ a manager that is good with the guys and will execute the analytics department's strategy in game and with the lineups.  Cash took over when he was 37, still young enough to be "one of the guys".  Same thing with Jirsch.

edit: shit he's only 30.  Might be a bit young still.  Maybe they appoint La Russa the manager with the idea of grooming Jirsch into the job within a couple years.  I'd be alright with that plan.

Ha, yeah, Jirschele became manager at 27. Younger than abreu, keuchel, etc.

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Jack McKeon won a world series with the Marlins when he was 72.  I'm not saying that I want LaRussa back but I think it is more important what players are brought in/back next year than who the manager is quite frankly.

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1 minute ago, wegner said:

Jack McKeon won a world series with the Marlins when he was 72.  I'm not saying that I want LaRussa back but I think it is more important what players are brought in/back next year than who the manager is quite frankly.

I'm pretty certain just replacing Renteria with an average in game tactical manager will be worth about 10 runs, or one win.  A excellent in game manager might be worth 20 runs over Renteria -- so yea, your point is a good one the bigger difference will be in the players.  It all adds up tho.

Edited by chitownsportsfan

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On 10/14/2020 at 9:35 PM, jamesdiego said:

You’re preaching to the choir about Jerrys record, which I’ve never been afraid to criticize.  Though I’m happy and respect the job they did on the rebuild, and relieved/ very happy they have moved on from Renteria/ Cooper, so have no interest to complain about Jerry’s past failures (yes, there are many).  
 

I wasn’t around for the LaRussa days so I don’t know details or info from newspapers or radio back then.  But I’m fairly confident Jerry didn’t just make Hawk the GM to grab headlines.  He must’ve just been buying the bullshit Hawk was slinging about ideas on what he would do to run the franchise and make it better.  
 

You know, great ideas like Fisk in the outfield.  Lol

If LaRussa did resist Hawk brilliant ideas for change, the proper reasoning is not to then let Hawk fire him, but the correct reasoning looking back was to fire Hawk to prevent losing LaRussa.  
 

The Sox might’ve looked a little moronic like you said firing Hawk before LaRussa.  But the Sox looked far more moronic in letting their announcer/ faux GM to fire their manager to satisfy his ego, to just fire said faux GM months later.  
 

Both Jerry and Hawk seem to be in agreement that he had no business being in the front office and it was a mistake.  And Hawk regrets firing the hall of fame manager.  

So in my eyes there’s no point in defending Hawks moronic dislike for LaRussa in the late 80’s if Hawk himself has even evolved to fully realizing he was the idiot   

It is interesting wondering just how the Sox would have done with LaRussa at the helm long term.  Maybe they are able to push past the Jays in 93?  To bad we didn’t get a chance to see.  

"But I’m fairly confident Jerry didn’t just make Hawk the GM to grab headlines."  

You're right, that's not the only or even the main reason Hawk was hired to be the GM. Here's what impressed Reinsdorf about Harrelson and it's something not a lot of people remember. In the offseason of 1983 to 1984 Julio Cruz was as good as gone, as he was already to sign with the Angels as a free agent. Harrelson was the one who convinced Cruz to resign and stay with the White Sox. Reinsdorf was impressed how Harrelson was able to convince Cruz to stay. He wasn't hired as GM right away, not until 1986, but this incident is where Reinsdorf began thinking of Hawk as a possible GM.  

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8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'm pretty certain just replacing Renteria with an average in game tactical manager will be worth about 10 runs, or one win.  A excellent in game manager might be worth 20 runs over Renteria -- so yea, your point is a good one the bigger difference will be in the players.  It all adds up tho.

Heck, replacing him would probably have won at least 2 more games that last week of the season....and most likely would have gotten us out of the wild card round this year.

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For those that worry about whether TLR will fit in with the younger players on this club - given the Sox talked to TA (and maybe a few others) prior to letting Ricky go, isn't it safe to assume RH and gang may ask a few of the leaders to way in as it relates to a potential managerial hire.  I don't envision the players making the decision, more just getting a high level reaction if there were any concerns (may even get specific - i.e., would the team be okay with Hinch given what happened or if it was TLR, etc).  

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1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

For those that worry about whether TLR will fit in with the younger players on this club - given the Sox talked to TA (and maybe a few others) prior to letting Ricky go, isn't it safe to assume RH and gang may ask a few of the leaders to way in as it relates to a potential managerial hire.  I don't envision the players making the decision, more just getting a high level reaction if there were any concerns (may even get specific - i.e., would the team be okay with Hinch given what happened or if it was TLR, etc).  

Agree I think it's pretty clear the Sox value the input of guys like TA, Dallas and Jose.  Hell for all we know TA helped push Renteria out the door.  Anybody they hire will be cleared with the team leaders.  I really think the Sox have turned over a new leaf (finally) and joined more progressive franchises in the manager hiring process.  I know it sounds crazy with the old man TLR as the seemingly main candidate but there's been a change in thinking otherwise Cooper would still be around even if Renteria was fired.  It's all about empowering the players to be the best version of themselves.  If that man is TLR, despite his age, that's cool.

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3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Why are you guys so worried about age? Tony can speak Spanish which is pivotal and he's in the Hall of Fame. Nothing wrong with having a grumpy manager once in a while. I still say it's fate. He wins 2 WS with the Sox then bows out and all is right in the world. He never should have been fired by Hawk.

Because you want a manager that can and will be with this team for what is supposed to be a long run.  Tony will be 80 in four years dude!  Think about that! The guys you listed off are 65(Bochy), 72 (Stone), 73 (Leyland) and 76 (larussa).  You want a guy closer to their age than their grandparents, this team needs that.

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42 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Because you want a manager that can and will be with this team for what is supposed to be a long run.  Tony will be 80 in four years dude!  Think about that! The guys you listed off are 65(Bochy), 72 (Stone), 73 (Leyland) and 76 (larussa).  You want a guy closer to their age than their grandparents, this team needs that.

TLRs age isn't even as big of a deal as the fact that things have changed A LOT since he was last in the dugout. Hell he could lose half the team on day 1 with his anthem stance.

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2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

TLRs age isn't even as big of a deal as the fact that things have changed A LOT since he was last in the dugout. Hell he could lose half the team on day 1 with his anthem stance.

I think there is also an energy issue. TLR was very involved in 2018 w Cora and his staff but that was a consultant. If JR is enamored w Tony, maybe he adds him as a consultant who can assist  a younger manager.  Just not sure TLR has the ability to be a full time manager at 76. 

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On 10/21/2020 at 4:46 PM, greg775 said:

My choices, with the realization Oz has no chance cause of his mouth: Tony baby No. 1 (Hall of Famer). 2.) Bochy strong second (no brainer). 3. Steve Stone (don't laugh, though I'd miss him on MLB broadcasts).  4. Jim Leyland (if healthy). Just my takes.

This is a really good list. I’d add Jack McKeon at #5 and call it a day. 

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17 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

This is a really good list. I’d add Jack McKeon at #5 and call it a day. 

Welcome to Soxtalk!

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On 10/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, Soxsi75 said:

"But I’m fairly confident Jerry didn’t just make Hawk the GM to grab headlines."  

You're right, that's not the only or even the main reason Hawk was hired to be the GM. Here's what impressed Reinsdorf about Harrelson and it's something not a lot of people remember. In the offseason of 1983 to 1984 Julio Cruz was as good as gone, as he was already to sign with the Angels as a free agent. Harrelson was the one who convinced Cruz to resign and stay with the White Sox. Reinsdorf was impressed how Harrelson was able to convince Cruz to stay. He wasn't hired as GM right away, not until 1986, but this incident is where Reinsdorf began thinking of Hawk as a possible GM.  

Harrelson was actually hired as GM in September 1985 and Cruz had already bombed as a player. This is one historic reason why I don't want JR picking the next manager. He will have the final say, but the actual choice should be Hahn's. No more revisiting 1986 by bringing LaRussa back. Time to move forward by learning from what happened 35 years ago.

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1 hour ago, Orlando said:

 

 

What do you guys think? Still seem sharp?

He probably is still sharp. I think in Spring Training he will be sharp. By the dog days of summer, he will need a wake-up call in the dugout every 3 innings. 

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3 hours ago, Orlando said:

 

 

What do you guys think? Still seem sharp?

Hard pass, please.

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