2020 Election Thoughts

[pcq]

Sounds like people are interfering with certification of the votes.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Perhaps I don't. The end point is that there should be some way for people who truly can't afford it to enjoy subsidized healthcare insurance, to the point of being free (for the worst cases). Something along the line of capped premiums based on income, with a relatively low cap where you qualify for no subsidies at all.

There's a lot more in my post beyond that though which I'd like to hear your thoughts on.

We have that. It's called Medicaid. Medicaid is what it is. 

Part of the issue is I don't believe in for-profit healthcare because insurance is an exclusionary product, and they behave in ways to make excuses to deny coverage, regardless of whether or not your doctor thinks that it's necessary. 

Also, did you know that they passed a bill in like 2012 or so that does not allow anyone to negotiate the price of drugs and medical procedures? 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Danny Dravot]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't believe in exploitative business models and they should be illegal and a violation of labor law. Sorry. 

It's not that he sucks at what he does, it's that his business model is faulty. 

Get a business model where the numbers actually work and are not exploitative. 

Exploitative? Is he going to people's houses and forcing them to work for him? No. They are making a choice. I always knew what I was gonna make before I started a job, even when I was a teenager.

[Danny Dravot]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

We have that. It's called Medicaid. 

Part of the issue is I don't believe in for-profit healthcare because insurance is an exclusionary product, and they behave in ways to make excuses to deny coverage, regardless of whether or not your doctor thinks that it's necessary. 

Then I'm genuinely ignorant here. In my understanding, Medicaid is then a public option. Yes? What's wrong with Medicaid? Obviously, it doesn't work if we're having this discussion.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Danny Dravot

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Exploitative? Is he going to people's houses and forcing them to work for him? No. They are making a choice. I always knew what I was gonna make before I started a job, even when I was a teenager.

C'mon man. You can't get anything without a job......You might as well have a gun to your head and be forced to work. 

The only people that don't work are those shut out by the employers or have a spouse willing to support them. One of the biggest myths out there is that people that otherwise need to, choose not to work. That doesn't happen. People are shut out of the workforce because they're considered "undesirable" for one reason or another, whether that be past mistakes or something else entirely. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Then I'm genuinely ignorant here. In my understanding, Medicaid is then a public option. Yes? What's wrong with Medicaid? Obviously, it doesn't work if we're having this discussion.

Medicaid is a program that is only for people on SSI or have an income below the poverty line. 

Many primary care providers and specialists do not accept it because it is run by the states and their payments are delayed. Insurance companies pay providers relatively quickly, while medicaid takes months to pay out. 

For example, if you work in a manufacturing facility making $10/hr and working 50 hrs/week you don't qualify, because you make too much money. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Danny Dravot]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Medicaid is a program that is only for people on SSI or have an income below the poverty line. 

Many primary care providers and specialists do not accept it because it is run by the states and their payments are delayed. Insurance companies pay providers relatively quickly, while medicaid takes months to pay out. 

Thanks for the clarification.

In that case, I'd think fixing Medicaid is the thing to do. First, it shouldn't just be poverty line and below. It's complex, but I'm thinking for singles up to, say, $30,000 annual, health insurance premiums should be capped at around 20% of after tax income per month. For families, double that limit to $60,000. Figure out something so that a raise bringing the single guy to $32,000 isn't rejected because it would remove him from the program. Figure out something reasonable for catastrophic caps, copays and deductibles as well.

For payment, issue a credit card to all recipients of the program so they can pay providers immediately and then the finalization can be sorted out between the recipient and the government later on down the road.

[Jack Parkman]

15 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Thanks for the clarification.

In that case, I'd think fixing Medicaid is the thing to do. First, it shouldn't just be poverty line and below. It's complex, but I'm thinking for singles up to, say, $30,000 annual, health insurance premiums should be capped at around 20% of after tax income per month. For families, double that limit to $60,000. Figure out something so that a raise bringing the single guy to $32,000 isn't rejected because it would remove him from the program. Figure out something reasonable for catastrophic caps, copays and deductibles as well.

For payment, issue a credit card to all recipients of the program so they can pay providers immediately and then the finalization can be sorted out between the recipient and the government later on down the road.

That was one of the things that was initially in the ACA, Medicaid expansion. That got gutted by the GOP and the SCOTUS. 

It sucks right now because sometimes you have to go a ridiculous distance if you're not in an urban area to find someone that will take it. 

I'm of the opinion that for-profit healthcare is bad because it leads to management of chronic conditions rather than solving them, because it is more profitable. Also, drug companies extort patients who need their medication to function or survive, like those with mental illness or something like HIV. They force them to pay exorbitant prices for their medication and they have no choice but to do it. 

 

Anyway, I'm sick and tired of discussing policy. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[StrangeSox]

Credit where credit is due

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by StrangeSox

[pcq]

We need our leaders to speak up.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, pcq said:

We need our leaders to speak up.

We need our actual leaders to speak up, and not the people trying to stage a coup in this country.

[Danny Dravot]

8 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Credit where credit is due

 

 

 

 

Don't live within a thousand miles of his district, but Fred Upton seems like what I would like the GOP to be.

He's also a huge Cubs fan, apparently, so he isn't perfect.

[Stinky Stanky]

22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's exactly what it is. Now we need the reichstag fire.

I had been comparing him to a Berlusconi/Mussolini hybrid for years but he's crossed the line into German fascism by now.

[NWINFan]

50 minutes ago, pcq said:

We need our leaders to speak up.

I have written both of my US Senators from Indiana and have not heard back from either. I don't anticipate hearing from them. Both are cowards.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, NWINFan said:

I have written both of my US Senators from Indiana and have not heard back from either. I don't anticipate hearing from them. Both are cowards.

Young is bad, but Braun is a Trumpette.

[Danny Dravot]

2 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

I had been comparing him to a Berlusconi/Mussolini hybrid for years but he's crossed the line into German fascism by now.

Oh c'mon. I've read your posts elsewhere in this thread and you're far more reasonable than this. Trump is a dopey bombastic bigot and a moron who doesn't believe in any part of America, much less its institutions, but he's not a Nazi.

This is German fascism (NSFL).

This is Trumpism.

Honestly, this doesn't bug me because I feel the need to defend Trump. His character can be smeared any which way and I won't really care. This bugs me because it's an affront to actual victims of Nazism.

 

[Two-Gun Pete]

3 hours ago, Danny Dravot said:

I agree with that. So fix the House and EC. The system works, it just needs updates.

The way they admitted new states into the union in the 19th Century was moronic, IMO. The thought process was more about land area, rather than living, breathing citizens that vote.

And this is why we have similarly shaped/sized mostly-empty squares out west that have outsized influence.  FFS, if Cook County were a state, it would be larger in population than half of the states in the union, IIRC.

 

So, instead of giving California more representation, if it were up to me, I'd merge mostly empty states and states with shitty economies together. Make the Dakotas one state. Put Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming together as one state. Also, put the Federal Dependencies of Mississippi and Alabama together with Georgia. 

Then, partition Washington DC into its neighboring states, and partition West Virginia into its neighboring states. Admit Puerto Rico and the USVI into the union as one state. 

I figure the presidential election is really only down to a handful of states, so why not reduce the total number of states? Why have 50, if most of them aren't worth a damn? Why not merge all the low-population states and shithole states together?

Edited November 19, 2020 by Two-Gun Pete

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Oh c'mon. I've read your posts elsewhere in this thread and you're far more reasonable than this. Trump is a dopey bombastic bigot and a moron who doesn't believe in any part of America, much less its institutions, but he's not a Nazi.

This is German fascism (NSFL).

This is Trumpism.

Honestly, this doesn't bug me because I feel the need to defend Trump. His character can be smeared any which way and I won't really care. This bugs me because it's an affront to actual victims of Nazism.

 

I would feel a lot worse about the comparison if this President didn't have his own quickly expanding death count.

[southsider2k5]

 

[greg775]

3 hours ago, NWINFan said:

In addition to the election nonsense, the Covid crisis is being ignored. There one other thing I expect from my government. 

This is what I don't like, the belief any elected official cares about COVID. They care about POWER. Gavin Newsome LIES that his 12 person dinner the other night was outdoors. Pictures show it INDOORS. Meanwhile, restrictions galore on the little guy. Sickening. ... Nancy Pelosi goes gets her hair done, pictured with no mask. Do as I say little people, not as I do ... Chicago mayor allowing looting and riots and goes to get her hair done, but you better not do what she does over Thanksgiving. ... Ditto in Oregon. How dare the government officials order people to skip Thanksgiving and have all these regulations when they are STILL rioting in Portland and busting windows and looting. ... Face it government is broken on all sides. Repubs and Democrats DESPISE each other. Wear a Trump hat ... risk getting hit in the head with a bat. That is unacceptible!! Bring that up and the other side will point out Trumpies are beating up Democrats and not vice versa. ... All I expect from government at this point is to keep the economy running somehow, have law and order somehow on the streets and hope someday some real unifiers will be elected to high office. And yes I worry about our youth getting destroyed mentally with all this flip flopping regarding not being allowed in person class.

This do as I say, not as I do stuff regarding COVID and politicians has to end. They are too bossy while eating their designer ice cream and going to their Napa Valley 300 dollar a plate dinners/drinks.

Edited November 20, 2020 by greg775

[Soxbadger]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is what I don't like, the belief any elected official cares about COVID. They care about POWER. Gavin Newsome LIES that his 12 person dinner the other night was outdoors. Pictures show it INDOORS. Meanwhile, restrictions galore on the little guy. Sickening. ... Nancy Pelosi goes gets her hair done, pictured with no mask. Do as I say little people, not as I do ... Chicago mayor allowing looting and riots and goes to get her hair done, but you better not do what she does over Thanksgiving. ... Ditto in Oregon. How dare the government officials order people to skip Thanksgiving and have all these regulations when they are STILL rioting in Portland and busting windows and looting. ... Face it government is broken on all sides. Repubs and Democrats DESPISE each other. Wear a Trump hat ... risk getting hit in the head with a bat. That is unacceptible!! Bring that up and the other side will point out Trumpies are beating up Democrats and not vice versa. ... All I expect from government at this point is to keep the economy running somehow, have law and order somehow on the streets and hope someday some real unifiers will be elected to high office. And yes I worry about our youth getting destroyed mentally with all this flip flopping regarding not being allowed in person class.

This do as I say, not as I do stuff regarding COVID and politicians has to end. They are too bossy while eating their designer ice cream and going to their Napa Valley 300 dollar a plate dinners/drinks.

Speak for yourself greg. I dont despise Republicans.

I despise the hypocrite Trump cult members who are actively trying to tear this nation apart. That isnt a Republican platform. 

[Danny Dravot]

8 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is what I don't like, the belief any elected official cares about COVID. They care about POWER. Gavin Newsome LIES that his 12 person dinner the other night was outdoors. Pictures show it INDOORS. Meanwhile, restrictions galore on the little guy. Sickening. ... Nancy Pelosi goes gets her hair done, pictured with no mask. Do as I say little people, not as I do ... Chicago mayor allowing looting and riots and goes to get her hair done, but you better not do what she does over Thanksgiving. ... Ditto in Oregon. How dare the government officials order people to skip Thanksgiving and have all these regulations when they are STILL rioting in Portland and busting windows and looting. ... Face it government is broken on all sides. Repubs and Democrats DESPISE each other. Wear a Trump hat ... risk getting hit in the head with a bat. That is unacceptible!! Bring that up and the other side will point out Trumpies are beating up Democrats and not vice versa. ... All I expect from government at this point is to keep the economy running somehow, have law and order somehow on the streets and hope someday some real unifiers will be elected to high office. And yes I worry about our youth getting destroyed mentally with all this flip flopping regarding not being allowed in person class.

This do as I say, not as I do stuff regarding COVID and politicians has to end. They are too bossy while eating their designer ice cream and going to their Napa Valley 300 dollar a plate dinners/drinks.

I'd refute this in depth, but I'm actually going to walk down to the hotel restaurant, take my mask off while I eat dinner, sit at least six feet away from any other person at the bar, and enjoy a nice chicken sandwich.

Seriously, you pick up on a lot of little things and cram them all together to form some sort of massive government conspiracy. Live your life, this isn't fascism from either side, everything's going to be alright.

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, greg775 said:

This is what I don't like, the belief any elected official cares about COVID. They care about POWER. Gavin Newsome LIES that his 12 person dinner the other night was outdoors. Pictures show it INDOORS. Meanwhile, restrictions galore on the little guy. Sickening. ... Nancy Pelosi goes gets her hair done, pictured with no mask. Do as I say little people, not as I do ... Chicago mayor allowing looting and riots and goes to get her hair done, but you better not do what she does over Thanksgiving. ... Ditto in Oregon. How dare the government officials order people to skip Thanksgiving and have all these regulations when they are STILL rioting in Portland and busting windows and looting. ... Face it government is broken on all sides. Repubs and Democrats DESPISE each other. Wear a Trump hat ... risk getting hit in the head with a bat. That is unacceptible!! Bring that up and the other side will point out Trumpies are beating up Democrats and not vice versa. ... All I expect from government at this point is to keep the economy running somehow, have law and order somehow on the streets and hope someday some real unifiers will be elected to high office. And yes I worry about our youth getting destroyed mentally with all this flip flopping regarding not being allowed in person class.

This do as I say, not as I do stuff regarding COVID and politicians has to end. They are too bossy while eating their designer ice cream and going to their Napa Valley 300 dollar a plate dinners/drinks.

I mean it isn't like the President called Covid fake and the fully used our tax dollars to get world class care which is unavailable to literally the rest of America once he got it, all while doing nothing to protect or aid Americans from the effects of Covid.

[southsider2k5]

 

[Jerksticks]

37 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

I'd refute this in depth, but I'm actually going to walk down to the hotel restaurant, take my mask off while I eat dinner, sit at least six feet away from any other person at the bar, and enjoy a nice chicken sandwich.

Seriously, you pick up on a lot of little things and cram them all together to form some sort of massive government conspiracy. Live your life, this isn't fascism from either side, everything's going to be alright.

Absolutely.  The day a person is able to understand that Democrats are not better than Republicans, ESPECIALLY NOW, is a very liberating day for that person.  Good didn’t just defeat evil.  Evil beat evil