2020 Election Thoughts

[NWINFan]

26 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Yeah, if you look at the bolded, this is a product of the stoopid outrage media that gullible sheep like Greg listen to. Seriously, if you allow a turd like Mark Levin think for you, you're being led around by the balls or the labia.

The most common strategy of morons on OANN, FOX, & conservative media for outrage:

1. Label ALL DEMOCRATS as "socialists, communists," or the like

2. Claim that they're out to take your rights away

3. Claim that GOPers/Trump, and ONLY GOPers/Trump will "fight for you"

4. If you agree with "we the people," you're "a patriot." (Even if you're a freedom freeloader that never served.)

 

Its a media formula that drives ratings, because outrage is popular, and most Americans hate to bother to think for themselves. Unfortunately, its also allowed the sheeple like greg who get lead around by their balls to contribute to an increase in polarization in our politics.

 

Now, a post ago, you admitted that it used to be "Democrats bad, Republicans good." But you yourself have conceded that this isn't necessarily so. And,  if one actually bothers to use their own brains, you could see that there are moderates in both sides of the aisle that AREN'T "socialists." And that find ways to work together with folks on both sides of the aisle.

I think most people, if they actually think about what they believe in, and what they'd support, most would find some things that are "liberal," as well as some things that are "conservative." I think most people, if they actually used their fucking brains  could/would find value on both sides of the aisle.

Unfortunately, most folks aren't going to bother to engage their own brains. They'd rather have tucker Carlson think FOR them. Or Rachel Maddow think FOR them...

I'm a liberal who has nothing against having a honest debate with a conservative. Hell, I might even find that I agree with a conservative on somethings. Not many, but some. Regardless, we all have to recognize that we will encounter people who disagree with us. Big deal. People are entitled to their opinions.

That is why gridlock and obstruction is so destructive in Washington. In reality, we may find some real solutions by attempting to reach a consensus. That is a tough process, because we might have to admit someone has a point regarding some matter. Big deal. No one has a monopoly on the truth.

[Jack Parkman]

12 hours ago, NWINFan said:

I'm a liberal who has nothing against having a honest debate with a conservative. Hell, I might even find that I agree with a conservative on somethings. Not many, but some. Regardless, we all have to recognize that we will encounter people who disagree with us. Big deal. People are entitled to their opinions.

That is why gridlock and obstruction is so destructive in Washington. In reality, we may find some real solutions by attempting to reach a consensus. That is a tough process, because we might have to admit someone has a point regarding some matter. Big deal. No one has a monopoly on the truth.

I don't mind having an argument with conservatives about actual policy, but I do hate having an argument with conservatives on basic human decency. 

I wish we could reach the point where it's no longer right vs wrong and we could get to actual policy choices....

The problem is that all over the country we're litigating human rights instead of actual policy. Congress included. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Danny Dravot]

8 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't mind having an argument with conservatives about actual policy, but I do hate having an argument with conservatives on basic human decency. 

I wish we could reach the point where it's no longer right vs wrong and we could get to actual policy choices....

The problem is that all over the country we're litigating human rights instead of actual policy. Congress included. 

What is basic human decency? What are these human rights we're litigating?

[hogan873]

9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't mind having an argument with conservatives about actual policy, but I do hate having an argument with conservatives on basic human decency. 

I wish we could reach the point where it's no longer right vs wrong and we could get to actual policy choices....

The problem is that all over the country we're litigating human rights instead of actual policy. Congress included. 

Yeah, we're discussing whether it's right or wrong to separate children from their parents and then lock them in cages, to camp outside a secretary of state's home with rifles demanding an election be overturned, to say it's okay for a cop to kneel on the neck of a black person for 9 minutes...

Remember when the discussions around politics were about gun control, the death penalty, foreign affairs, reproductive rights, etc.?  Because of Trump and the GOP's encouragement of him, it seems their policies are: unless you are an unborn child we don't care about you and if you look different than me I hate and fear you.

[Jack Parkman]

 

1 hour ago, Danny Dravot said:

What is basic human decency? What are these human rights we're litigating?

 

30 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Yeah, we're discussing whether it's right or wrong to separate children from their parents and then lock them in cages, to camp outside a secretary of state's home with rifles demanding an election be overturned, to say it's okay for a cop to kneel on the neck of a black person for 9 minutes...

Remember when the discussions around politics were about gun control, the death penalty, foreign affairs, reproductive rights, etc.?  Because of Trump and the GOP's encouragement of him, it seems their policies are: unless you are an unborn child we don't care about you and if you look different than me I hate and fear you.

Hogan nailed it. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Jack Parkman

[Danny Dravot]

58 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

 

 

Hogan nailed it. 

Thought you were going to go in a different direction and I was ready to duke it out. Yeah, all those things suck. I'll see myself out.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Danny Dravot said:

Thought you were going to go in a different direction and I was ready to duke it out. Yeah, all those things suck. I'll see myself out.

I mean, we disagree on a lot of things but most are policy differences instead of human decency ones.

[NWINFan]

During the late 1980s, I worked for the Indiana Employment Service. Two Japanese automakers, in a joint effort, opened an assembly plant in Lafayette. They planned on hiring 2,000 workers. However, they expected 150,000 resumes and or applications. How do you screen that many people from pieces of paper? Something different had to be done.

When applicants reached a certain stage, they were called in in groups of six. They were given a problem, and worked alone at first. Then the six, as others watched, had a discussion of how to solve the problem. 

Solving the problem was not the real key. How did the applicants interact? I remember one woman talking over people. There were two white guys who made fun of an African-American. However, what I really learned from this is that a problem can more easily solved if a group of people discuss it and reach a consensus. A dominating person doesn't help. Neither does racism. This is what everyone in Washington needs to realize. Power grabbing is not what we need at the moment. This country is facing real problems, and we need real leadership.

Yes, I know. Expecting real leadership out of Washington is on the naive side.

[bmags]

3 hours ago, NWINFan said:

During the late 1980s, I worked for the Indiana Employment Service. Two Japanese automakers, in a joint effort, opened an assembly plant in Lafayette. They planned on hiring 2,000 workers. However, they expected 150,000 resumes and or applications. How do you screen that many people from pieces of paper? Something different had to be done.

When applicants reached a certain stage, they were called in in groups of six. They were given a problem, and worked alone at first. Then the six, as others watched, had a discussion of how to solve the problem. 

Solving the problem was not the real key. How did the applicants interact? I remember one woman talking over people. There were two white guys who made fun of an African-American. However, what I really learned from this is that a problem can more easily solved if a group of people discuss it and reach a consensus. A dominating person doesn't help. Neither does racism. This is what everyone in Washington needs to realize. Power grabbing is not what we need at the moment. This country is facing real problems, and we need real leadership.

Yes, I know. Expecting real leadership out of Washington is on the naive side.

Lets just re-write constitution to allow us to elect Shinzo Abe.

[Danny Dravot]

I don’t know what to think of Biden nominating Gen. Lloyd Austin as SecDef.

I really wanted Flournoy. Starting her own think tank and writing a bunch of essays gives me a solid idea of where she stands. Austin has a Ranger tab and a Silver Star, so he’s legit, but everything in this article suggests he wouldn’t really be his own thinker. Not sure if that’s what I want in this administration.

Also, I’m all for diversity, but I’m unnerved by this article implying that his nomination is the result of pressure on Biden to have a black SecDef. I really hope more thought went into this than that.

[StrangeSox]

 

 

 

The anti-democratic party continues apace

 

edit: good lord

 

e2: 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by StrangeSox

[pcq]

At this point Trump is actively interfering in the electoral process. The lawsuits are just silly.

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, pcq said:

At this point Trump is actively interfering in the electoral process. The lawsuits are just silly.

If anyone else was doing the things he has been doing, that person would be prosecuted. There is no way a candidate should be pressuring election officials. But laws and ethics don't seem to pertain to Trump. None of the lawsuits had any merit. It goes beyond silly. It was a farce. 

[Dick Allen]

The lawyers that sign on to these cases should be sanctioned. It will just take one being disbarred before it stops.

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

If anyone else was doing the things he has been doing, that person would be prosecuted. There is no way a candidate should be pressuring election officials. But laws and ethics don't seem to pertain to Trump. None of the lawsuits had any merit. It goes beyond silly. It was a farce. 

It is active treason, with hints at armed sedition.

[Soxbadger]

I hate to say this, but I think its time for states like NY, CA and IL to go on the offensive and sue to disqualify Texas and other states who tried to create laws to make it harder to vote. I really doubt that the Supreme Court disenfranchises 4 states, but I think that if they have 2 competing lawsuits it would make it more difficult to rule for one and not the other.

If there was any justice in the world, these last 4 weeks should be the end of the Republican party. Its not about policies, its about actively trying to destroy democracy for a dictator. There is no place for that in America.

[pcq]

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is active treason, with hints at armed sedition.

Maybe Rudy should be the one to count the votes. You can expect a lot of militia for Dec 14 and Jan 6. Today is the safe harbor deadline. As dictated by G--d.

Who could have predicted Trump would refuse to leave??

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by pcq

[NWINFan]

53 minutes ago, pcq said:

Maybe Rudy should be the one to count the votes. You can expect a lot of militia for Dec 14 and Jan 6. Today is the safe harbor deadline. As dictated by G--d.

Who could have predicted Trump would refuse to leave??

 

Actually, Trump was strongly hinting at not accepting the elections results during the campaign if things didn't go his way. Then he began talking about serving for 12 years even though the Constitution limits the president to two terms. I really think he dreamed about being president for life regardless of constitutional law.

Rudy? He should no longer be allowed to be in public.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

I hate to say this, but I think its time for states like NY, CA and IL to go on the offensive and sue to disqualify Texas and other states who tried to create laws to make it harder to vote. I really doubt that the Supreme Court disenfranchises 4 states, but I think that if they have 2 competing lawsuits it would make it more difficult to rule for one and not the other.

If there was any justice in the world, these last 4 weeks should be the end of the Republican party. Its not about policies, its about actively trying to destroy democracy for a dictator. There is no place for that in America.

Hopefully this new federal government will lead the way there.  It is wild to hear the same people who claim the 2nd amendment has no limits at all, do everything they can to lmiit one worded like this.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

 

[StrangeSox]

 

[Dick Allen]

37 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Actually, Trump was strongly hinting at not accepting the elections results during the campaign if things didn't go his way. Then he began talking about serving for 12 years even though the Constitution limits the president to two terms. I really think he dreamed about being president for life regardless of constitutional law.

Rudy? He should no longer be allowed to be in public.

When he lost in the Iowa caucus, he accused Ted Cruz of cheating and wanted a re-do. You know it's going to happen. Why is this guy placated? Why do these politicians adopt his craziness? it's absolutely insane.

One of my best friends who I have been best friends with since we were  6 years old is now a Trumper. I cannot deal with him. He won't wear a mask. They election is stolen....He always was a republican who believed in smaller government, less taxes. But he was normal. Now he's nuts. I would love to hang out with him, but the craziness always comes up. i don't try anymore. i avoid him like the plaque. Hopefully in a year or so he will be de-programmed.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Dick Allen

[Iwritecode]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

One of my best friends who I have been best friends with since we were  6 years old is now a Trumper. I cannot deal with him. He won't wear a mask. They election is stolen....He always was a republican who believed in smaller government, less taxes. But he was normal. Now he's nuts. I would love to hang out with him, but the craziness always comes up. i don't try anymore. i avoid him like the plaque. Hopefully in a year or so he will be de-programmed.

I've started to notice that Trumpers that I'm friends with on FB have now also shown themselves to be anti-vaxxers.  I don't know if they are anti-vaxxers in general or just anti covid vaccine for whatever reason but I'm starting to wonder even if we do get a vaccine here within the next month or so and it's generally available to everyone by summer, how much longer is this going to linger simply because people won't take the vaccine?

[Dick Allen]

14 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

I've started to notice that Trumpers that I'm friends with on FB have now also shown themselves to be anti-vaxxers.  I don't know if they are anti-vaxxers in general or just anti covid vaccine for whatever reason but I'm starting to wonder even if we do get a vaccine here within the next month or so and it's generally available to everyone by summer, how much longer is this going to linger simply because people won't take the vaccine?

Which is weird since it is what the dear leader considers his crowning achievement. The republicans had a hearing today featuring anti-vaxxers, anti maskers, anti-social distancers. It is just bizarre. The only purpose seems to be to make Biden’s job harder?

Why is this exclusively a US problem?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

 

[hogan873]

14 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

 

Trump stacked the Supreme Court...to get a one sentence denial.  That's awesome.