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2020 Election Thoughts

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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Do you honestly believe the majority of police officers and active duty military are really on Biden’s side?

We spent days this week speculating about how many were actually helping the rioters or, at best, benign indifference.

As for coups and the military/industrial complex, I guess it depends on your version of 11/22/63 events.

Do I believe our military will participate in over throwing our government? No I do not. Were they on Obama's side? No., Did they overthrow him? No. Were they on Clinton's side? No. Did they over throw him? No. Are they on Biden's side? No. Will they over throw him? No. 

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4 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Maybe! If enough people are still so naive that we can survive this without actually doing anything about it, pretending it's not actually an existential problem to American democracy, no. Because eventually, the fascist party will gain enough power and deploy enough violence to destroy democratic government.

So what are you doing?

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I believe this is one of the worst threats to our democracy since the Civil War. But I am confident we will survive this. I don't see our military and 328,000,000 Americans  going along with a violent over throw of our government to keep seated an unpopular President. We're stronger than that. 

With that, you all can argue why we won't and how close Trump is to a violent take over of the country. 

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4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I believe America will be better off in two years under a Biden administration. Do you?

If they crack down on fascists, there's a chance! Lots of other issues of course, namely a pandemic and economic downturn.

 

If they pretend there isn'ta serious threat, then no.

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27 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I do not believe a few thousand people can over throw our government. You apparently do. 

I am confident that we will survive this. I am confident that Biden will return America to where we were and improve upon it. 

Tex, I like your optimism, and you're probably right. We should be able to survive this.

I agree with you in that a few thousand people can't overthrow the government. Partly. This bunch couldn't do it because they are just plain stupid. But in 1963 when JFK was assassinated, the government was overthrown and it took a lot fewer than a thousand people.

Meanwhile, we're not out of the woods yet. Some believe that when Trump announced he wasn't attending the inagural, he was creating a "soft situation." Without him there, more thugs may decide it is another good time for an attack. We will see.

Finally, we must remember what the aim of a terrorist is. It is simply to create fear and panic. 

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He will declare some of sort emergency and the militia pigs will be out looking for blood. I hope Biden has him arrested. 

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2 hours ago, Texsox said:

I realize that. There were many more protestors in Chicago and the anti war protests continued all across America. 

Also,  today we have far left leaning protesters who want to defund the police leaving Americans defenseless from the far right.  

Still not it.

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1 hour ago, Texsox said:

I grasp it. It was close to being one of the biggest acts of terror on our soil. Would it have been worse than the Oklahoma City Bombing? We survived that. But perhaps because those 168 souls were just federal employees and children, it wouldn't have been as bad? 

In less than two weeks Biden will be President. The Dems will control both houses. I'm very optimistic about our future.

But this right wing domestic terrorist problem won’t suddenly disappear.  Even if you think democracy will survive this recent attack and be in better hands under Biden, this terror threat will still exist and so will those whom fanned its flames (Trump, certain GOP officials, right wing media).  A lack of action will only enable these crazies to do it again but with a potentially more dangerous / deadly outcome.

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47 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I believe this is one of the worst threats to our democracy since the Civil War. But I am confident we will survive this. I don't see our military and 328,000,000 Americans  going along with a violent over throw of our government to keep seated an unpopular President. We're stronger than that. 

With that, you all can argue why we won't and how close Trump is to a violent take over of the country. 

Can you at least acknowledge that it's pretty fucking gross to compare anti war protests to fascist insurrections bent on murder?

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But this right wing domestic terrorist problem won’t suddenly disappear.  Even if you think democracy will survive this recent attack and be in better hands under Biden, this terror threat will still exist and so will those whom fanned its flames (Trump, certain GOP officials, right wing media).  A lack of action will only enable these crazies to do it again but with a potentially more dangerous / deadly outcome.

Hope isn't an action plan.

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8 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Hope isn't an action plan.

What happens in most countries when there is a coup?  Like what happened to all the people in Turkey who tried to overthrow Erdogan?  I’m guessing that dude sent a message that made sure no one ever thought twice about it.

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Now that’s fucking awesome!

One of the reasons to believe that Trump will not succeed is the backlash of the business side since Wednesday. Still far too much support, but some groups that would go along with anything to keep the low tax cut/regulation train going.

Military coups often have backing of business groups and heads. 

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2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What happens in most countries when there is a coup?  Like what happened to all the people in Turkey who tried to overthrow Erdogan?  I’m guessing that dude sent a message that made sure no one ever thought twice about it.

Well, yes but I'd still want it to move through an actual justice system.

Some like in Japan in the 30s that are worrisome is giving slap on the wrist punishments while still respecting their power. More effective to actually remove their power which is why the social media/shunning is a step, but removing Cruz/Hawley and banning trump from office really would be necessary here.

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Capital is very much not having this shit, yeah. 

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What happens in most countries when there is a coup?  Like what happened to all the people in Turkey who tried to overthrow Erdogan?  I’m guessing that dude sent a message that made sure no one ever thought twice about it.

Well the accused ringleader was going to be abducted and returned to Turkey by the then-national security adviser and his son, before that plot was discovered and Flynn was fired!

 

 

Trump recently pardoned Flynn and has been meeting with him lately, for whatever that's worth. 

 

But generally if you do a failed coup they put a bullet in your head, something like that. Functional democracies sure don't just pretend nothing really happened and keep letting you have a seat in government. Not if they want to remain democracies, anyway.

Edited by StrangeSox
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2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, yes but I'd still want it to move through an actual justice system.

Some like in Japan in the 30s that are worrisome is giving slap on the wrist punishments while still respecting their power. More effective to actually remove their power which is why the social media/shunning is a step, but removing Cruz/Hawley and banning trump from office really would be necessary here.

I didn’t mean to suggest do anything illegal, but everyone involved should be punished as much as the law permits, including those who incited the violence.  Looking the other way for some or giving lenient punishments will only encourage this type of behavior in the future.

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Video shot by a congressman during the siege. Sounds like they were instructed by security to take their name tags off so they couldn't be easily identified.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hitlers 1st try at overthrowing the German government wasn't 1933, it was 1923.

Castros 1st attempt at overthrowing Cuba wasn't 1958, it was 1952.

In pretty much any other country on earth when you lead a coup, there would have already been executions. The idea that somehow everything is ok because the people who died weren't the right politicians is absurd.  History tells us that someone who is willing to lead a violent uprising once, is perfectly willing to do it again and again. They are perfectly willing to sabotage the people and the government to win power. 

The absolute minimum that should be happening right now are massive and very public investigations by this government with the intent of jailing anyone found to have participated in any form in this coup attempt. The President should be charged and tried for his crimes against the American government to render him politically neutered at a minimum,  jailed at best. This was treason, and not some protest gone wrong. This was an attempt to over throw a dully elected government of the United States of America. 

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To pile on to this, how many Bengazi investigations did we have, and how quickly did they get called for? How about emails, lying under oath, and birth certificates? 

This is worse than all of those combined and multiplied by 100.

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29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I didn’t mean to suggest do anything illegal, but everyone involved should be punished as much as the law permits, including those who incited the violence.  Looking the other way for some or giving lenient punishments will only encourage this type of behavior in the future.

No I understood. I had a friend in Turkey though and it was scary because they were throwing anyone in jail who seemed like someone who could be involved. Maybe they were released later, but pretty scary time. 

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This is just the GOP showing their collective asses. This is who they've been all along. The majority of the party has been captured by fascists for years. 

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